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Talk about the Watchmen comic book mini-series and film
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:31 pm 
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DD,

Who says "Nothing ever ends".

Jon or Laurie?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:33 pm 
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I DID IT!
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Aydin wrote:
Happy Harry's scene was filmed, I'm sure. The "Rorschach's Mask" video journal showed them filming it.

It seems a lot of stuff has been cut.

They literally FAILED HARD at just putting a simple "I did it 35 minutes ago" in, they just had to change it. I mean, why is it so hard use "did" instead of "triggered". :x


Maybe we just need to see the film to understand WHY they decided to use "triggered" instead.

Afterall, as a multi-dimensional medium film has its own set of parameters that don't always jibe with the page. I'm not trying to justify this change or excuse it (I'll make up my mind when I see it) but my take is this:

Adrian actually triggers the squid (book) and Jonergy bombs (movie) at 11:25. That IS 35 minutes before Midnight. When Dan and Rorschach are confronting him, the clock is just about to strike Midnight. So, in truth, the squid/bomb hasn't quite yet happened and he did, in fact, just "trigger" it 35 minutes ago.

Incidentally, the motion comic makes this even more interesting, as it seemed odd to have him say "I did it..." then the clock strikes midnight and THEN the destruction.

Again, just wait and see. It may or may not actually work.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:35 pm 
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DDC--Have you gotten any rest over the past two days?
Poor guy is probably wiped out...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:36 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
MrEgotistical wrote:
How do you think someone who's never read the book or had any experience w/ it might take it? Would it reasonate w/o knowing it beforehand?

This is the big question. It's hard for me to tell if a non-fan unfamiliar with the material would like it more or less than a big Watchmen fan.


Have you had to the chance to speak with any critics of any sort that did not read the book beforehand?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:40 pm 
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KenWMFan wrote:
With all the news today about whats NOT in the movie, dare I ask does this so calleed "adaptation" have anything to do with the orginal GN at all anymore?

Tip: Start at the start of the thread, and read forwards...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:41 pm 
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I DID IT!
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Mister Pain wrote:
KenWMFan wrote:
With all the news today about whats NOT in the movie, dare I ask does this so calleed "adaptation" have anything to do with the orginal GN at all anymore?

Tip: Start at the start of the thread, and read forwards...


I'm pretty sure he was being facetious.

At least... I hope so.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:43 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
KenWMFan wrote:
2. Could you tell how other people that was there liked it?

The more positive reaction is coming from fans and online press. Some mainstream press seem to not like it.


...like who?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:48 pm 
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Nothing ever ends.
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vdtdcutd5145 wrote:
Have you had to the chance to speak with any critics of any sort that did not read the book beforehand?

This, very much so. I'm quite interested to see non-fans' reactions to the film.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:49 pm 
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fruityfallout wrote:
Quick question, DDC:

Jerry has a CD case that contains 4 country music CDs, 1 rock-and-roll CD, 2 rap CDs, and 3 Tejano CDs. What is the probability of Jerry randomly selecting a Tejano CD and then, without replacing it, randomly selecting a rap CD from his case?


1/30, dear sir, 1/30. ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:51 pm 
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Comedian Carl wrote:
Again, just wait and see. It may or may not actually work.


The thing about "I did it 35 minutes ago" is that it is the closest thing to an iconic line that we have. I brought up it's quotability earlier not because none of us would then be able to quote it if it was changed, but because the original line is so quotable. It has a flow to it that "I triggered it" doesn't quite have. And I don't need to wait and see it on film to judge it. I can just say it out loud and know it's not the same. People (The Guard, for example) have tried to say it's the meaning that is what's really important. But that's not entirely true. It's the difference between "I'll make him an offer he can't refuse" and "I'll make him an offer he can't say no to", or "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" and "Frankly my dear, I really don't care". Now I'm not saying "I did it 35 minutes ago" is on par with those classic lines from The God Father or Gone With The Wind. I'm just saying you can keep the meaning and change the wording, but it won't have that cache to it. Or to steal a quote from Stephen King, "it goes somewhere, but it ain't, you know, boss!"

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:51 pm 
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how was Rorschach Back story and how brutal was it?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:54 pm 
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KenWMFan wrote:
With all the news today about whats NOT in the movie, dare I ask does this so calleed "adaptation" have anything to do with the orginal GN at all anymore?


Ugh.

I mean, I get being annoyed about stuff being cut, I am too. The Bernies in particular I felt really grounded the story well amongst ordinary people, and helped to give the ending disaster much of its meaning, but either you're being annoyingly melodramatic, or just dumb.

Did the movie feel fast paced or energetic, or did it move at a more leisurely pace?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:57 pm 
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I have a question. What exactly is a junket? I've never heard the term before. Am I just stupid?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:38 am 
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It would appear that under the scrutiny of all these questions, DoomsdayClock has fled for Mars. :?

I didn't know he could do that.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:46 am 
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No Hollis death scene in the theatrical cut? I'm very disappointed, but at least we have seen it and it'll be on the Director's Cut Blu-ray/DVD.

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Last edited by Sasso on Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:50 am 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
The Abyss wrote:
Question: Is the vivarium in?

No.

Okay.

I wish it was in, but I'm not crying over it's exclusion.

t3cii wrote:
Comedian Carl wrote:
Again, just wait and see. It may or may not actually work.


The thing about "I did it 35 minutes ago" is that it is the closest thing to an iconic line that we have. I brought up it's quotability earlier not because none of us would then be able to quote it if it was changed, but because the original line is so quotable. It has a flow to it that "I triggered it" doesn't quite have. And I don't need to wait and see it on film to judge it. I can just say it out loud and know it's not the same. People (The Guard, for example) have tried to say it's the meaning that is what's really important. But that's not entirely true. It's the difference between "I'll make him an offer he can't refuse" and "I'll make him an offer he can't say no to", or "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" and "Frankly my dear, I really don't care". Now I'm not saying "I did it 35 minutes ago" is on par with those classic lines from The God Father or Gone With The Wind. I'm just saying you can keep the meaning and change the wording, but it won't have that cache to it. Or to steal a quote from Stephen King, "it goes somewhere, but it ain't, you know, boss!"

QFT. I just can't think of an argument supporting the changing of what is arguably the book's most iconic line. In fact, I'm more upset over this than the exclusion of Hollis's death scene. That was a necessary change due to time constraints, but this...I mean seriously, it's a well-known fact that Snyder changed many lines from the script to make them more faithful to the GN. I just can't wrap my mind around how he could justify such a change while still making the argument that he tried his hardest to make this adaption as faithful as possible. For every other change he made, there are significant reasons for that change (squid, costumes, no vivarium, etc.) This change was just so outta the blue. I know I might be blowing things out of proportion....but to me, this is a disgrace.

IceKeyHunter wrote:
I have a question. What exactly is a junket? I've never heard the term before. Am I just stupid?

Dictionary.com, my friend.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:57 am 
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One thing to keep in mind...the infamous line may well have been as we remember it in the script, but sometimes actors will say the wrong thing, either because they think it sounds better, or they forgot. And it may have been the best performance given for the line, so they decided to use it, since it doesn't really change the meaning.

It might not be, entirely, Snyder's fault.

Just playin' devil's advocate here. =)

J

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:04 am 
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Foenix wrote:
One thing to keep in mind...the infamous line may well have been as we remember it in the script, but sometimes actors will say the wrong thing, either because they think it sounds better, or they forgot. And it may have been the best performance given for the line, so they decided to use it, since it doesn't really change the meaning.

It might not be, entirely, Snyder's fault.

Just playin' devil's advocate here. =)

J

Nope, The Guard confirmed that "triggered" was in the script a while ago. I know, I should have been expecting it, but I kept hoping that the change back to "did it" would eventually be made. It's not entirely Snyder's fault, but I still can't see why he decided to use "triggered" when he was able to change other lines from the script.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:48 am 
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The most disappointing change, in my opinion, is the "I triggered it" line. I mean common "triggered"? What the hell? Who cares if the attack goes off at exactly midnight? Let it be at 11:25 like the comic and let Veidt say "I did it" more than once.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:37 am 
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"Triggered"

That evil :evil: change to the GN's more direct "I did it" shows how far the pschology of the movie's ending has been skewed from the original.

It isn't Adrian, alone, anymore. He isn't himself responsible. He has implicated someone or something else.

Having him say "I did it" would mean that he, alone, is resonsible, and ultimately accountable for the events that unfold.

The film must veer from that idea to avoid the nifty device used by Moore, the author of the GN on which this version of Watchmen is based. I have always felt that the subsequent unravelling of the plot is easier to grasp if the is only one shooter (just like JFK in Dallas).

Having more people and motives muddies the issue considerably. :|

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