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Talk about the Watchmen comic book mini-series and film
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:27 am 
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Here is a debate. V for Vendetta and Watchmen are my two favorite Alan Moore graphic novels and two of my most favorite graphic novels of all time. Both were adapted into movies.


What do you think is a better film altogether? And also when I mean all together I mean take in count Watchmen's directors cut or Ultimate directors cut.


I think altogether I like Watchmen more. While I found V for Vendetta still pretty good. They really changed the ending and the whole ideal, making it a pro vigilante vs the evil facist government. What I like about Watchmen even as a movie is they still kept all the characters flawed and there was still no bad guy. Where as V for Vendetta movie was trying to switch the story from a terrorist anarchist to a anarchist vigilante who people liked and made him into a hero basically in the end, during this anti-bush day. Which I found to be very unoriginal.


But what do you guys think altogether, do you like V for Vendetta more or Watchmen more (whether its directors cut or theatrical cut)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:28 am 
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WATCHMEN. I loved V, but it doesn't compare.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:29 am 
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I love Hugo Weaving. He's such a versatile actor, and he literally melted beneath V and made something truly intriguing out of the character he was given. However, it's difficult to say which film was better. They both contain political messages, resistance between the governing and the governed (albeit in radically different ways), and a few themes that led to the same moral questioning.

Overall, I would say that Watchmen was the more faithful and ambitious adaptation. V for Vendetta's crew took more of a revisionist route, while Watchmen pretty much kept the themes and the way in which they are presented intact. Visually, it was also more enthralling, while V for Vendetta took a more realistic film approach that had a few moments of brilliance.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:33 am 
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Wow, tough question. I'm voting for V on this one. But it's a great question.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:36 am 
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As far as adaptation, there's absolutely no question that WATCHMEN honors the book 1000% more than V for Vendetta. As a fan, the V movie drove me crazy. Abomination.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:42 am 
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glad to hear y'all liked V. i'm a huge alan moore fan, and from what i gather, it's pretty popular to hate on V. i think it was fantastic.

as far as which is better? well, if you want a more conventional film and plot line, definitely V. it is more uniform, more linear, and less excessive.

watchmen is none of those things. but if you want epic, bold, and challenging, watchmen is better.

i guess the question depends on two things: criteria for what is better, and what sort of experience you're after. for instance, if you're comparing visuals, watchmen is hands down better. if you're talking pathos, V may be better, but it's a fine line.

better v. worse is never cut and dry . . .


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:52 am 
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Watchmen.

V for Vendetta might have been a more tightly constructed film, but it wasn't nearly as deep as it masqueraded as. It gutted the novel's message and replaced it with a boring diatribe against the Bush administration, and used the novel's characters and settings to a communicate a different message. It was no longer a battle of polar opposites, of anarchy versus fascism, but a murky, and conventional, slight against conservatism. It was also no longer a warning against an apathetic populace; in the film, Norsefire tricks the country into embracing totalitarianism, thus, the population is washed of responsibility, thus, there is no lesson for the viewer to learn.

Snyder's slavish approach to the Watchmen film meant that many of the novel's core tenements couldn't help but be conveyed. It wasn't as efficiently or as competently made as V, but what it said made it a more worthwhile venture.

Watchmen - 7/10
V for Vendetta - 6/10

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:02 am 
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Wasn't V for Vendetta intended to be Moore's "response" to the "era of Margaret Thatcher" and his disagreements with her policies? Since Thatcher was basically a conservative, it makes sense to me. However, the film did omit many critical elements of the original work, and it made the ideological battle more slanted and truncated than it should have been.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:10 am 
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My main problems with V were the diversion of the thrust of the story, as stated here by a few folks already, and perhaps more irksome was the derailing and simplification of the relationship between V and Evey. The attempt to render this more palatable for general audiences actually did the opposite. V came across as a predatory pervert, and Evey a weak-willed puppet. Black and white suited this adaptation not at all. It's V-Lite.

Apart from that, as films how do they compare?
V has some wonderful moments, but Watchmen definitely outranks it in many ways for me. I like dense reads, and Watchmen the film is that. I also like a challenge and a thing I can chew over for a good while. It's that too. V is 'based on the novel by...' whereas Watchmen is a proper adaptation.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:53 am 
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Watchmen- 6/10
V for Vendetta- 3/10

V was awful. Everything was simplified and all the subtlety removed. It was unbelievably bad. Every character seems entirely different to those in the book, and the moral complexity and ideas of anarchy and fascism had been removed in place of a tedious, fairly light anti-Bush film. In the book, the Norsefire characters were largely understandable and sympathetic, even Adam Susan (the leader). In the film they had to change his goddamn name to Sutler and give him a moustache just to point that Norsefire= Nazis. Natalie Portman cannot do a convincing English accent, and I still can't work out what Stephen Fry was doing there...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:17 am 
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V for Vendetta was much more enjoyable as a film.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:35 am 
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I haven't read the V book, however, in as far as films are concerned, I liked Watchmen better. Both were thought provoking, but Watchmen seemed more intricate.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:39 am 
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i feel VfV done as close the the GN as watchmen was would be awfull, i think the VfV movie is very watchable, although i have only seen it once, i think i would have given it a 7/10,

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:12 am 
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Watchmen. To me, it is both a better film and a better adaption.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:54 pm 
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I watched V4V before I read the book, and I liked it quite a bit. I thought the action bits (V's fight scenes) were a bit silly, but I thought it was a beautiful looking film with a strong message. After reading the book, I stand by those comments. The fact that its not the same as the GN doesn't make the film worse in my eyes.

Watchmen is definitely less accessible, but even in its satire, it's probably more fun to watch.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:54 pm 
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V's alteration of the basic story of the comic, and removing the anarchist bent, made it the weaker adaption for me. Not a bad movie, but far short of Watchmen.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:29 pm 
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I don't HATE V for Vendetta, in fact I liked it when I watched it before I had read the book. As a film, ignoring that is was an adaption, it was quite good, but I have to say, WATCHMEN wins.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:57 pm 
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V for Vendetta-9/10
Watchmen-9/10

But for me, Watchmen is the better film and adaptation.

What V for Vendetta has is a great, exciting story with a fascinating main character with a fantastic actor on that part.

Watchmen is a breeze of two hours and forty minutes packed with detail. Despite the omisssion of many things from the graphic novel, it still has the meat and potatoes of the story and what it tried to say. The acting is phenomenomal and all of the characters are fascinating. The dialogue is great. The cinematography, editing, production design, special effects are all top notch. It's only limited by its length, in other words, it's too short, making it out to be too rushed.

That's not to say that V for Vendetta wasn't bad in those aspects, it was, but I never felt immersed into its own world as Watchmen did. Maybe it's becuase most of the story takes place in interiors, but the mise-en-scene of Watchmen is just much more involving and does a great service to its story.


V for Vendetta was extremely fast paced, but it worked there, with Watchmen, things lose momentum.

Whereareas V for Vendetta tried to play it safe as possible by modernizing itself, Watchmen sticks to its time period and by this time, I think that V for Vendetta is already dated. Watchmen will age well, because the conundrums it presents are universal and eternal.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:25 am 
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swedishskinjerr wrote:
Wasn't V for Vendetta intended to be Moore's "response" to the "era of Margaret Thatcher" and his disagreements with her policies? Since Thatcher was basically a conservative, it makes sense to me. However, the film did omit many critical elements of the original work, and it made the ideological battle more slanted and truncated than it should have been.


i dont think bush and thatcher are really that comparable imo bush seemed to try to use fear as a justification for (at least from a european perspctive) terrible foreign policy (along with his lapdog tony b) and thatchers modus operandi was to basically trick the poor into stripping away their own rights with schemes like the right to buy (lending money to people in council houses to mortgage their home, effectivley makg them stakehoders in the capitalist system), total destruction of trade union rights, sympathy strikes, etc. privatization schemes, health service reforms and the like, oh and crippling the industrial north

the one big similarity is that both fear and debt are forms of external control of the population people gave bush carte banche because they were scared/angry people let thatcher ruin england because they couldnt afford not to, they had to be the drones because at the end of the day they had bills to pay

because of this idea of control i think v (the movie's) use of a fake terrorist plot to instill fear is actually fair game and makes sense in the film they made without being sacreligious to the comic because its really a critique of authoritarian government in any and all forms with anarchy presented as the altrnative.

my biggest gripe with the movie is that v is not an anarchist and i agree that it seems cowardy and pointless for the wachowskis to set their adaptation in england using the guy fawkes historical backdrop as the whole plot has been changed and the film doesent feel english at all. the ony reason i can see for keepng the setting is that they were afraid that an american setting would be too close to home for US audiences, but it would definetley have been a better adaptation, maybe even a great adaptation that (actually) made the "important political point" that it the film in its current form only made in pasing

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Last edited by cactusman_hattan on Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:27 am 
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oh and watchmen was better for me - despite the over the top fight squences

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