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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:13 pm 
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t3cii wrote:
What? Are you saying people don't do that? I'm not saying everyone does, but its season 4 and there are still people who tune in despite the fact they don't seem to like the show all that much.

Yeah when I stop liking a show, I'll stop watching.
There was never a moment where I said "Yeah this is starting to suck."
I think some people are overly critical of TWD.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:51 am 
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t3cii wrote:
What? Are you saying people don't do that? I'm not saying everyone does, but its season 4 and there are still people who tune in despite the fact they don't seem to like the show all that much.


In my case at least it's because I hope it's good this time around.

I had seriously dropped this show completely after the second season, coincidentially it was you who gave me the final push to watch it again actually.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:26 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
t3cii wrote:
What? Are you saying people don't do that? I'm not saying everyone does, but its season 4 and there are still people who tune in despite the fact they don't seem to like the show all that much.


In my case at least it's because I hope it's good this time around.

I had seriously dropped this show completely after the second season, coincidentially it was you who gave me the final push to watch it again actually.

Yeah, there are times when you just want a show to be good, so you keep watching it waiting for it to improve. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

I've always been very happy with this show. Some episodes better than others, but I've never been disappointed.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:47 pm 
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So, this season of the show has been okay, so far. Anyone still watching? I kind of feel like they need to bring back the Governor to shake things up a bit. Also, they should leave the prison. It's become stale.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:54 pm 
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t3cii wrote:
So, this season of the show has been okay, so far. Anyone still watching? I kind of feel like they need to bring back the Governor to shake things up a bit. Also, they should leave the prison. It's become stale.

Not sure why there's so much negativity around this show of late. I'm watching and I think it's been great. Been a good build so far.

They can't leave the prison now with everyone so sick. That has to play out. My guess is it will in about 2-3 episodes.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Um, I didn't think I was being that negative... :?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:50 am 
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t3cii wrote:
Um, I didn't think I was being that negative... :?

Wasn't singling you out. Just looking back at all of the comments about this season, more seemed to be not particularly impressed. General comments have been more negative than positive. Your "it's okay" is one of the most positive comments about this season to date.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:38 am 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
t3cii wrote:
Um, I didn't think I was being that negative... :?

Wasn't singling you out. Just looking back at all of the comments about this season, more seemed to be not particularly impressed. General comments have been more negative than positive. Your "it's okay" is one of the most positive comments about this season to date.


Boardwalk Empire

Homeland

Eastbound & Down

THAT is what great television looks right now at the moment.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:28 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
DoomsdayClock wrote:
t3cii wrote:
Um, I didn't think I was being that negative... :?

Wasn't singling you out. Just looking back at all of the comments about this season, more seemed to be not particularly impressed. General comments have been more negative than positive. Your "it's okay" is one of the most positive comments about this season to date.


Boardwalk Empire

Homeland

Eastbound & Down

THAT is what great television looks right now at the moment.


I've watched some of Boardwalk Empire and found it to be rather boring. Homeland was okay in its first season, and from what I've heard about later seasons, the quality is far from great. Never seen Eastbound & Down.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:19 pm 
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Friggin intense.
The governor is shaping up to be quite the antihero! (Very Snake Plissken looking in front of that burning Woodbury)
I was SO hoping they wouldn't just have him go and attack Rick again and everything. He's totally broken. Not even looking for redemption because he knows how far gone he is, but it seems to find him anyways. He could definitely be an interesting character again.
I didn't really like the ending with him meeting Martinez again. I was hoping to just not see him again. David Morrisey's thoughts about The Governor on The Talking Dead (which I don't normally watch) were interesting.
It's really interesting to wonder if the show will further attempt to redeem The Governor, and furthermore do you think it's possible to even accept him as a protagonist at this point? Or do you feel the episode was a little manipulative?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:00 pm 
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So I said on facebook that I thought the episode was pretty boring. I kept waiting for the Governor to turn into the Governor. Watching him try to clean himself up, and deal with this family was just dull to watch. And at this point in the show, I don't want to see this guy redeem himself. He is way beyond redemption, in my opinion. The idea that he could be the protagonist of this show (or any show, for that matter), is ridiculous. Remember the collection of heads? The zombie daughter kept in the closet? Forcing Maggy to take her top off while he held her head to the table? The killing of innocent people? The slaughter of his own people the last time we saw him? I don't want to sympathize with this guy, I don't want to pretend like it's possible for him to turn over a new leaf and not continue being the crazy person he is. But there often comes a point where the bad guy of a show is so well acted, or is just more interesting compared to everyone else, that people just end up liking the guy. I don't want to see him be an "anti hero". That's tired writing.

A better episode, I think, would have stayed with him and the other two guys. I think there could have been some great tension in that, having three men who are trying to survive, and one by one turning on each other. With the Governor coming out on top, of course. And after all the lying, likely murdering he'd have done, the episode would have ended with him showing up at that family's apartment. And him coming up with an alias not because he was starting over a new leaf, but because lying is just inherent to who he is.

The romance between him and that woman was also unconvincing. She tells him "he's done so much for them", but at that point he had just found a board game for the old man and carried him to his bed. The romance doesn't happen organically, with it being clear that the writers wanted to come up with a new Amanda for the Governor. And even his relationship to the young girl also felt forced. The little girl talks and acts like she's a four year old, so pure and innocent. She exists almost as an ideal for the Governor, a daughter figure, but not a real person. It would have been more interesting to see a child who could actually converse intelligently with him, maybe even defy him, with him slowly gaining her trust. As it is, she's just not fully realized enough to make her a compelling character, at least compared to the other kids on this show. And it makes it obvious to me that she won't last long, either she'll die or the family will leave him, which puts him into the final rage to attack the prison again.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:12 pm 
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t3cii wrote:
So I said on facebook that I thought the episode was pretty boring. I kept waiting for the Governor to turn into the Governor. Watching him try to clean himself up, and deal with this family was just dull to watch. And at this point in the show, I don't want to see this guy redeem himself. He is way beyond redemption, in my opinion. The idea that he could be the protagonist of this show (or any show, for that matter), is ridiculous. Remember the collection of heads? The zombie daughter kept in the closet? Forcing Maggy to take her top off while he held her head to the table? The killing of innocent people? The slaughter of his own people the last time we saw him? I don't want to sympathize with this guy, I don't want to pretend like it's possible for him to turn over a new leaf and not continue being the crazy person he is. But there often comes a point where the bad guy of a show is so well acted, or is just more interesting compared to everyone else, that people just end up liking the guy. I don't want to see him be an "anti hero". That's tired writing.

A better episode, I think, would have stayed with him and the other two guys. I think there could have been some great tension in that, having three men who are trying to survive, and one by one turning on each other. With the Governor coming out on top, of course. And after all the lying, likely murdering he'd have done, the episode would have ended with him showing up at that family's apartment. And him coming up with an alias not because he was starting over a new leaf, but because lying is just inherent to who he is.

The romance between him and that woman was also unconvincing. She tells him "he's done so much for them", but at that point he had just found a board game for the old man and carried him to his bed. The romance doesn't happen organically, with it being clear that the writers wanted to come up with a new Amanda for the Governor. And even his relationship to the young girl also felt forced. The little girl talks and acts like she's a four year old, so pure and innocent. She exists almost as an ideal for the Governor, a daughter figure, but not a real person. It would have been more interesting to see a child who could actually converse intelligently with him, maybe even defy him, with him slowly gaining her trust. As it is, she's just not fully realized enough to make her a compelling character, at least compared to the other kids on this show. And it makes it obvious to me that she won't last long, either she'll die or the family will leave him, which puts him into the final rage to attack the prison again.

Wow. I disagree with everything you've said here!

Yes, The Governor has done some very cruel things as Woodbury's dictator. Yes, he is damaged goods.

But Brian, has had time to think of all he has become, all he's lost, the consequences of his actions. For most of this episode you can tell he has given up and he is in shock. The fact that Brian is helping out a group he encountered does not "redeem" him in my eyes. He's still the same man, still trying to get by day by day. He's made some pretty nasty choices in his past, but in the end, he's human. He's not evil incarnate.

Rick has made some pretty cold choices, recently Carol made few really cold, "evil" choices. But these hard choices come from living in a hard world. Yes, there are degrees on how far each of these people will go, and i think there have been times when all of them crossed a line they thought they would never cross. The Governor's line was a bit further, but he HAS a line.

As long as they avoid the mistake I think was made with Heroes (Sylar evil, Sylar good, Sylar evil, Sylar good) I think this is a good progression for The Governor.

I'm pretty sure the writers are showing this side to give us more depth, but I don't feel he's on the road to redemption. He's down right now, so he's doing what hie can to survive, but when shit really hits the fan, and he sees the opportunity I think we'll be seeing the old Governor resurface.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:04 pm 
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I think you should maybe read my post again. We're not in that much of a disagreement.

Obviously the Governor goes back to the prison and will start some shit. I mean, we actually saw him standing outside the prison. He's up to no good. But it seems obvious to me that the writers are trying to make him more complex, despite how far gone he is. They want us to care about this bland little girl, because she almost certainly exists as a character device. Something will happen to her so that the Governor will be pushed over the edge and set the final confrontation in motion.

To compare him to Rick, though, is ridiculous. So ridiculous it makes me wonder if we are watching two different shows? Let's look at the Governor again:

Image

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Rick and Carol might have made some difficult choices, but they are nowhere near as bad as the Governor's. He gets off on it. I thought last season made that pretty clear. But now they are muddling the character by having him try to, what, start a new family? It's pointless since we know this isn't going to go anywhere. And I don't know how you could disagree with me on the romance angle. The two have zero chemistry together, and she's pretty much into him the moment he steps into the apartment. Don't be surprised if she doesn't end up zombie food by season's end.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:19 am 
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t3cii wrote:
I think you should maybe read my post again. We're not in that much of a disagreement.

Obviously the Governor goes back to the prison and will start some shit. I mean, we actually saw him standing outside the prison. He's up to no good. But it seems obvious to me that the writers are trying to make him more complex, despite how far gone he is. They want us to care about this bland little girl, because she almost certainly exists as a character device. Something will happen to her so that the Governor will be pushed over the edge and set the final confrontation in motion.

To compare him to Rick, though, is ridiculous. So ridiculous it makes me wonder if we are watching two different shows? Let's look at the Governor again:

Rick and Carol might have made some difficult choices, but they are nowhere near as bad as the Governor's. He gets off on it. I thought last season made that pretty clear. But now they are muddling the character by having him try to, what, start a new family? It's pointless since we know this isn't going to go anywhere. And I don't know how you could disagree with me on the romance angle. The two have zero chemistry together, and she's pretty much into him the moment he steps into the apartment. Don't be surprised if she doesn't end up zombie food by season's end.

We can agree on one thing. Something is getting lost in translation.

I compare Rick, Carol and The Governor not to say they are equal in their "evil" deeds, but to explain that they are all just human. They have all made choices that crossed their own - key phrase here "their own" - moral line. Some more than others. I agree that The Governor has gone much further over that line, but I like the fact that we can see a conflict in him. It makes him more human and less "evil for evil's sake" like The Emperor from Star Wars.

I'm sure The Governor is going to eventually "start some shit" at the prison. But it could be later than sooner. He may come in under a flag of truce at first in order to secure the safety of his new "family."

I don't disagree with you on the "romance angle" per se. To me that scene looked like they felt like fucking. It showed that she trusts "Brian" not necessarily that she's madly in love with him or he is with her. I wouldn't call it a romance yet.

Overall though, I like the Greek tragedy the writer's are playing out here. Sure, let's all hate The Governor for what he did, but let's see that he's not a cardboard cut-out of evil - that inside he's still just a wounded, broken man who has passed through hell and wants a taste of the way things were before the "fall."

We just have to wait until next episode to see where they go with it. I agree with you that if they push this "family man/I'm a reborn nice guy thing" for too long it would be a waste of time and a misstep.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:57 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
t3cii wrote:
I think you should maybe read my post again. We're not in that much of a disagreement.

Obviously the Governor goes back to the prison and will start some shit. I mean, we actually saw him standing outside the prison. He's up to no good. But it seems obvious to me that the writers are trying to make him more complex, despite how far gone he is. They want us to care about this bland little girl, because she almost certainly exists as a character device. Something will happen to her so that the Governor will be pushed over the edge and set the final confrontation in motion.

To compare him to Rick, though, is ridiculous. So ridiculous it makes me wonder if we are watching two different shows? Let's look at the Governor again:

Rick and Carol might have made some difficult choices, but they are nowhere near as bad as the Governor's. He gets off on it. I thought last season made that pretty clear. But now they are muddling the character by having him try to, what, start a new family? It's pointless since we know this isn't going to go anywhere. And I don't know how you could disagree with me on the romance angle. The two have zero chemistry together, and she's pretty much into him the moment he steps into the apartment. Don't be surprised if she doesn't end up zombie food by season's end.

We can agree on one thing. Something is getting lost in translation.

I compare Rick, Carol and The Governor not to say they are equal in their "evil" deeds, but to explain that they are all just human. They have all made choices that crossed their own - key phrase here "their own" - moral line. Some more than others. I agree that The Governor has gone much further over that line, but I like the fact that we can see a conflict in him. It makes him more human and less "evil for evil's sake" like The Emperor from Star Wars.

I'm sure The Governor is going to eventually "start some shit" at the prison. But it could be later than sooner. He may come in under a flag of truce at first in order to secure the safety of his new "family."

I don't disagree with you on the "romance angle" per se. To me that scene looked like they felt like fucking. It showed that she trusts "Brian" not necessarily that she's madly in love with him or he is with her. I wouldn't call it a romance yet.

Overall though, I like the Greek tragedy the writer's are playing out here. Sure, let's all hate The Governor for what he did, but let's see that he's not a cardboard cut-out of evil - that inside he's still just a wounded, broken man who has passed through hell and wants a taste of the way things were before the "fall."

We just have to wait until next episode to see where they go with it. I agree with you that if they push this "family man/I'm a reborn nice guy thing" for too long it would be a waste of time and a misstep.

I completely agree with this assessment of the episode

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:21 am 
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The Governor redeeming himself y'all said ?

NOT SO FAST !

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:36 pm 
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So last episode was rather satisfying. This Governor mini-arc, I believe, was well-done. Now instead of a stale revenge episode, there is much more at stake on both sides. What did the rest of you think?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Oh, you don't want to know what I think.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:46 pm 
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t3cii wrote:
Oh, you don't want to know what I think.

Yes I would. Sounds like I won't agree, but I want to know.

From what you said before, it seemed like what happened was in line with what you were hoping would happen. He's not sweet 'ole Brian anymore and his true colors are showing.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:56 pm 
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I don't really have much of an opinion on it. I didn't really like that it was another Governor episode. As stoked as I was to see him reintroduced, I didn't need to see back to back episodes featuring just him. This season has felt a bit odd to me. I'm just not as invested in these characters as I was last season.

I thought Kirk Acevedo's character teaming up with the Governor after he killed his brother was a bit hard to believe. Hopefully something will come from this.

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