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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:01 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
t3cii wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
But adapting that story without God would be like making a movie about the labors of hercules... with no supernatural events.


And.......that would be wrong........because ?!!


Well, in this case, it would significantly change the story.


Indeed, but you're not doing anything wrong simply by not acknowledging the religious take.

I hate to slightly side with Brooklyn here, but isn't that the only take?

Y'know, besides the Steve Carell one?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:04 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
I hate to slightly side with Brooklyn here, but isn't that the only take?

Y'know, besides the Steve Carell one?


Ever heard of something called "interpretation" ?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:06 pm 
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AvatarIII wrote:
Yeah but godcan't just "cause a flood" he had to cause something which causes the flood, god works in mysterious ways, not obvious ways.


God made it rain for 40 days and 40 nights according to the book of Genesis... that would cause a flood.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
I hate to slightly side with Brooklyn here, but isn't that the only take?

Y'know, besides the Steve Carell one?


Which, incidentally, still included God.

I think when you are specifically making this about Noah, you need to include the God angle in some way. Don't forget that God wanted Noah to build the ark. God might not speak to Noah, but I would be surprised if God wasn't at least somehow addressed.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
AYBGerrardo wrote:
lol.


But adapting that story without God would be like making a movie about the labors of hercules... with no supernatural events. Whether you believe them or not the stories are the way they are.

You misunderstand my amusement. I just think that no serious theologian believes that God snaps his fingers to make things happen. (That's how the most ignorant atheists perceive religion. It's unwise to oblige them.) It's as Avatar says:
AvatarIII wrote:
Yeah but godcan't just "cause a flood" he had to cause something which causes the flood, god works in mysterious ways, not obvious ways.

We all know how the tides are connected to the orbit of the moon. The moon is the most obvious immediate explanation for a global flood. God might be presented as moving it, or (much more likely given Aronofsky's previous spiritual representations) the causal chain goes way back to the beginning, invisible but planned by an omniscient watchmaker.

Anywho, myths exist by being told and re-told. There's nothing saying Aronofsky has to present God (and less to say that he will) than representations of the battle of Troy having to follow the Iliad.
It'd make for a dull story anyway. I think ol' DA is much more interested in the psychology of Noah. At any rate there's a lot more story to tell in a movie than what we get (boat measurements!) in the Bible.

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:28 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
We all know how the tides are connected to the orbit of the moon. The moon is the most obvious immediate explanation for a global flood. God might be presented as moving it, or (much more likely given Aronofsky's previous spiritual representations) the causal chain goes way back to the beginning, invisible but planned by an omniscient watchmaker.


So He can do that, but "snapping his fingers to make things happen" is out of the question?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:44 pm 
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I think, historically, that's a particularly archaic understanding/belief.
When Science came in, and people had explanations for the previously unexplainable, there was a shift to a God who keeps himself invisible.
It's not that I believe in either, but what's archaic isn't cool, y'know? And I don't think it's necessary to portray the bearded guy, nor likely that Aronofsky would do that. I think he'll offer ambiguity in spades.

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Yeah but godcan't just "cause a flood" he had to cause something which causes the flood, god works in mysterious ways, not obvious ways.


God made it rain for 40 days and 40 nights according to the book of Genesis... that would cause a flood.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, we call that "January."

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:56 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
I think, historically, that's a particularly archaic understanding/belief.
When Science came in, and people had explanations for the previously unexplainable, there was a shift to a God who keeps himself invisible.


Why do you say it's archaic ? It's still present in all religions, whoever the deity in question is, wether it's God, Allah, Zeus, Sambi, Xenu, etc. They all share the same quality, they WILL reality into existence, the common notion among religious and non-religious people is that God snaps his fingers ! That doesn't make atheists "ignorants".

Even with Avatar's example, there's still "snaps his fingers", if he creates a flood, by say, altering the water cycles, then he is bending reality to his will, you can go as far back as you want to, and we may stumble into your re-hashed version of the "silent engine" hypothesis, which could override finger snapping, but even then, that postulate may just mean God only snapped his fingers at the beginning of time.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Could it be that we will simply hear God's voice as Noah perceives it or something similar? I don't think we will necessairly be seeing God so to speak. That can't happen unless Ricardo Montalban appears in the movie.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:50 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
AYBGerrardo wrote:
I think, historically, that's a particularly archaic understanding/belief.
When Science came in, and people had explanations for the previously unexplainable, there was a shift to a God who keeps himself invisible.


Why do you say it's archaic ? It's still present in all religions, whoever the deity in question is, wether it's God, Allah, Zeus, Sambi, Xenu, etc. They all share the same quality, they WILL reality into existence, the common notion among religious and non-religious people is that God snaps his fingers ! That doesn't make atheists "ignorants".

Even with Avatar's example, there's still "snaps his fingers", if he creates a flood, by say, altering the water cycles, then he is bending reality to his will, you can go as far back as you want to, and we may stumble into your re-hashed version of the "silent engine" hypothesis, which could override finger snapping, but even then, that postulate may just mean God only snapped his fingers at the beginning of time.


Yeah, if you believe there is an all powerful diety that created life as we know it by simply saying "Let there be _________" would you stop and say "Well, he couldn't flood the earth." Yes there is the belief of a watchmaker god... but that belief kind of runs perpendicular to the story of Noah, because Noah wouldn't have been saved unless God had stepped in and spun the watch, a story like this demands the influence of God, otherwise you just have a guy putting animals on a boat just because.

Think about it, if it just started raining and Noah had no warning... why would he assume this is the rain to end all life except that which he can put in his Ark?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Yeah, if you believe there is an all powerful diety that created life as we know it by simply saying "Let there be _________" would you stop and say "Well, he couldn't flood the earth." Yes there is the belief of a watchmaker god... but that belief kind of runs perpendicular to the story of Noah, because Noah wouldn't have been saved unless God had stepped in and spun the watch, a story like this demands the influence of God, otherwise you just have a guy putting animals on a boat just because.

Think about it, if it just started raining and Noah had no warning... why would he assume this is the rain to end all life except that which he can put in his Ark?


I have no idea why you quoted me.

Anyways, I can understand that the original story had God as an active presence which allowed Noah to build his ark and save himself and the animals from the flood, that is indisputable.

But I also remember a little movie about Joan Of Arc, which implied that the latter wasn't an emisary of God, but rather a crazy woman who had hallucinations of being called upon for the higher purpose of fighting for her country.

If they chose to do this movie with god as an active presence in it, that's perfectly okay, unless a better alternative was being shunned in favor of pandering to the beliefs of certain groups, now that wouldn't make me happy.

Luckily, we got Arofnosky, so I can confidently say I'm not too concerned about that happening.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:57 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
But I also remember a little movie about Joan Of Arc, which implied that the latter wasn't an emisary of God, but rather a crazy woman who had hallucinations of being called upon for the higher purpose of fighting for her country.


I don't think that's the same thing. Joan Of Arc is an actual, historical figure, so the idea that she was just a crazy woman who had hallucinations is not only possible, it's likely. We know she existed, but whether or not she actually spoke to God is debatable.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:08 pm 
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t3cii wrote:
I don't think that's the same thing. Joan Of Arc is an actual, historical figure, so the idea that she was just a crazy woman who had hallucinations is not only possible, it's likely. We know she existed, but whether or not she actually spoke to God is debatable.


True indeed, but if you see other movies of Joan Of Arc (specifically one with Leelee Sobieski), her story is told in standard religious manner, it claims that she actually saw God, that she was sane, and that she led her cause with the backing of thy holiest.

My point is, that Noah's story can be told in different manners, and it shouldn't be restricted to the one we all expect it to be, not if it can be told effectively with a different approach.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:51 pm 
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TheMovieDude wrote:
Could it be that we will simply hear God's voice as Noah perceives it or something similar? I don't think we will necessairly be seeing God so to speak. That can't happen unless Ricardo Montalban appears in the movie.


I thought Liam Neeson was 'cast', I just assumed he was gonna be ol' Jehovey!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:00 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:28 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
AYBGerrardo wrote:
lol.


But adapting that story without God would be like making a movie about the labors of hercules... with no supernatural events. Whether you believe them or not the stories are the way they are.


The labours of Hercules without supernatural events portrayed 'literally' as they always are in Hollywood movies? NO! The alternative might be to interpret the symbolism and unravel the historical, religious, and poetical truths hiding just beneath the surface of the tales, reading them as they are intended! That would also mean... treating the audience as if they have a brain to share between em!!

Nah, let's go with another rote, surface-level swords-n-sorcery crapfest.

I trust Aronofsky will bring his slightly baffling Jodorowsky-esque quasi-religious mummery to this Noah project, and give it some of the open-to-interpretation aspects it deserves.
Because another flat-as-a-pancake by the numbers Hestonian religious epic we do NOT need.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:50 pm 
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^ By those drawings, as well as the synopsis, I actually thought it was "Noah in the Hyborian Age".

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:29 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
I have no idea why you quoted me.


I was going to edit it out to just be AYB's quote... but I obviously didn't.

feliciano182 wrote:
But I also remember a little movie about Joan Of Arc, which implied that the latter wasn't an emisary of God, but rather a crazy woman who had hallucinations of being called upon for the higher purpose of fighting for her country.


If they did it that way, I could see it working... but in a way God would still be in it, but as hallucinations. The reality of God isn't the question, but there has to be a reason Noah believes that this rain could be the last rain for the world

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:50 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
^ By those drawings, as well as the synopsis, I actually thought it was "Noah in the Hyborian Age".


Heh. Definitely feels like Noah The Barbarian!

Well, the world around Noah has to be depicted as sinfully-inclined and beyond saving, a wild enough party to be wiped out by a vengeful god (pissed off because he can't get it right, wiping the slate clean to have another go), so there is room for bloodthirsty drunken hordes of wench-clenching loincloth-wearers I guess...

This is the prurient-fun part of this genre, and always has been. Since Cecil B's epics, it's the depiction of the unsaved hedonists of Babylon etc., and their violent destruction, that puts the bums on seats, regardless of how much emphasis is put on the righteous and noble hero when it comes to press and marketing.

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