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 Post subject: TV show idea
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:41 pm 
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TITLE: Rorschach's Journal

NETWORK: Cartoon Network's "Adult Swim"

STYLE: Original Batman Animated TV series like animation

SYPNOSIS: In an alternate 1985 where masked heroes are outlawed, every hero goes into retirement, except for a determined vigilante named Rorschach. "Rorschach's Journal" chronicles Rorschach's crime fighting adventures which include encounters with child molesters, bank robbers, and the dreaded "knot top" gang.

TV RATING: US: TV-14 for extreme violence and alcohol/drug use.

The episodes would occur throughout 1985 which includes miscellaneous crimes as well as events in "Watchmen" up to the point where Rorschach is killed by Dr. Manhattan.

Thoughts? Ideas?

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:05 pm 
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This would give Alan Moore a heart attack, then send him spinning in his grave.

I think that the world of Watchmen is best kept limited. Maybe another graphic novel, but certainly not a TV series.

And anyway, Cartoon Network is completely the wrong network for a series like this. If you want to do Watchmen justice, put the series on HBO (also an AOL Time Warner company).

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:27 pm 
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Not Cartoon Network, really, just on Adult Swim, which is a special of adult shows after all the kiddy shows.

Anyway, I suppose you're right on keeping Watchmen limited, I was just throwing some interesting ideas out there. But still, just for fun, any ideas for a TV series?

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:51 pm 
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strongerlovingworld wrote:
TITLE: Rorschach's Journal

NETWORK: Cartoon Network's "Adult Swim"

STYLE: Original Batman Animated TV series like animation

SYPNOSIS: In an alternate 1985 where masked heroes are outlawed, every hero goes into retirement, except for a determined vigilante named Rorschach. "Rorschach's Journal" chronicles Rorschach's crime fighting adventures which include encounters with child molesters, bank robbers, and the dreaded "knot top" gang.

TV RATING: US: TV-14 for extreme violence and alcohol/drug use.

The episodes would occur throughout 1985 which includes miscellaneous crimes as well as events in "Watchmen" up to the point where Rorschach is killed by Dr. Manhattan.

Thoughts? Ideas?



Are the smiley buttons, posters, the upcoming movie. . .the novelnot enough!? How much more must we squeeze out of the masterpiece that is Watchmen? Seriously, sometimes I feel that people won't stop crying until they have a "tickle me" Rorshach on their laps.

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:16 pm 
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Look at Star Wars! Movies, video games, books, and more merchandise than a human being could possibly imagine. Star wars is to science fiction as Watchmen is to comic books. Believe me when I say this, a movie involving the greatest comic book series of all time is not enough. Watchmen has ONE poster as far as I'm concerned, and the smiley badges with the blood haven't been made in years. Yes, I am a huge fan of Watchmen and don't believe in butchering the thing, but can't we at least spare some sort of spin-off? Maybe a TV show isn't the best idea, but I'm just trying to throw some ideas out there.

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:19 am 
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strongerlovingworld wrote:
Look at Star Wars! Movies, video games, books, and more merchandise than a human being could possibly imagine. Star wars is to science fiction as Watchmen is to comic books. Believe me when I say this, a movie involving the greatest comic book series of all time is not enough. Watchmen has ONE poster as far as I'm concerned, and the smiley badges with the blood haven't been made in years. Yes, I am a huge fan of Watchmen and don't believe in butchering the thing, but can't we at least spare some sort of spin-off? Maybe a TV show isn't the best idea, but I'm just trying to throw some ideas out there.



Star Wars is Star Wars, Watchmen is Watchmen. I'm all for afewpromotional items here and there (I own a smiley badge). Though skeptical, i'm very excited for the upcoming movie and hope it won't disappoint. Posters are sure to pop out any month now as we draw closer to the movie's premiere. And i'm sure WB will try to make as much money off of us as possible. But a cartoon series? You've gotta be fucking kidding me! Even die-hard fan boys gotta draw the line somewhere. And how long would it be until the fan boys tired of the animated series? What would they start crying for next?

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:45 am 
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Quote:
Look at Star Wars! Movies, video games, books, and more merchandise than a human being could possibly imagine. Star wars is to science fiction as Watchmen is to comic books. Believe me when I say this, a movie involving the greatest comic book series of all time is not enough. Watchmen has ONE poster as far as I'm concerned, and the smiley badges with the blood haven't been made in years. Yes, I am a huge fan of Watchmen and don't believe in butchering the thing, but can't we at least spare some sort of spin-off? Maybe a TV show isn't the best idea, but I'm just trying to throw some ideas out there.


star wars and it's merchandising was aimed at kids, stealing from countless myths, legends and tales throughout history to get kids excited about fantasy again. it absolutely revolutionised the market as it was on so large a scale, the star wars universe was just that, a universe. lunch boxes, t-shirts and toys are all a given in star wars... but did you know star wars toys were the first to be 3-3/4"? before that, only 12" dolls like GI joe or action man were available. why did they do this? SO THAT THE MILLENIUM FALCON WOULDN'T TAKE UP A KID'S WHOLE ROOM!!!
some thing that simple made the industry standard today.

also, even lucas has admitted that every character that had more than 3 seconds screen time was made into a figure...and he owns all the merch rights...and probably several hawaiian islands because of it.

watchmen is completely different.

1. it's finite - the swu history spans millenia
2. it's set on earth (and mars), mostly in new york - not numerous planets, systems and galaxies.
3. watchmen isn't kid friendly! the whole thing is about adult life and the huge question of morals. to put it in short terms star wars promotes team work, religion, hard work, friendship, and most of all redemption and love.

i don't even know what could have ever been written successfully in a watchmen spin-off. to me, what happens in the book is everything we need to know - we know enough about rorschach without being put off or sick of him. its so goddamn complex and detailed.

watchmen will always be a complete work in the truest sense of the phrase. there is no need for another series.

you will have your merch! just wait 11 months!!!

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:47 am 
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I have replies for Alfonso and iancontinence

Alfonso, I have another example for you. Batman. It's set in a realistic, dark world, (alternate because of superheroes) and a lot of these days are aimed at adults. As far as I'm concerned, there have been many animated series based off of it. I think that Batman is a perfect example. The lines for Batman haven't really been drawn yet.

iancontinence, I have to disagree with you on your three points.
1. The Watchmen world is not finite. It's an alternative universe where certain events manipulated in the past cause a revolutionized future, and this spans on forever. There could be many spin-offs because of this fact.

2. Watchmen has the potential not to be set on Earth. Dr. Manhattan can travel wherever he wants just by teleporting. There's always the possibility of another dillema somewhere else in the Universe.

3. Correct, Watchmen is not kid friendly, however, it does promote team work (Rorschach and Nite Owl), hard work (Rorschach hunting down killer), friendship (Dan and Laurie), redemption (in a way, when the heroes let what Veidt did go), and love (once again, Dan and Laurie). Watchmen doesn't promote religion, but where in Star Wars does it?

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 am 
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I liked the initiative. however, it looks and seems too much marketing...i mean, it's kinda like what was done with Matrix, on the site http://www.whatisthematrix.com. lots of very cool comic book stories, telling alternative sides and stories of the Matrix world. i guess people ended up expecting more of the movie that made justice to those different and neat insights; however, that didn't happen.

some of the watchmen's world credibility lays on the very fact that you don't need and shouldn't need to know about their previous histories - not in details. what's enough is enough. the focus is on the proximity of WW III and how oblivious the comedian's death and the retired vigilante's dramas go for the ordinary population. i really appreciated it as a fan, such a cool and bold idea - but I believe it would draw to Watchmen an unnecessary attention - for the sake of the story - and bring focuses that won't help any of the carachters - and in a cartoon format - unless you're speaking of something 3 levels above Corto Maltese or anything ever done based on Moebius's work, forget it.

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Last edited by Mere Being on Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:04 pm 
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Mere Being, I find that getting deeper into Rorschach's history would be fascinating and help people to better understand the character. Yes, you're right there have been failed attempts, but it's worked out with Star Wars and Batman. Also, keep in mind that this is not a kid's cartoon, it's an adult's cartoon that comes on when they show Futurama and Family Guy on Adult Swim. The only difference is the type of animation and that fact that it'd be a violent show and not a comedy.

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:24 pm 
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strongerlovingworld wrote:
Mere Being, I find that getting deeper into Rorschach's history would be fascinating and help people to better understand the character. Yes, you're right there have been failed attempts, but it's worked out with Star Wars and Batman. Also, keep in mind that this is not a kid's cartoon, it's an adult's cartoon that comes on when they show Futurama and Family Guy on Adult Swim. The only difference is the type of animation and that fact that it'd be a violent show and not a comedy.


like i said before, myself would just love it. but we can't forget that zack and team are trying to bring non-WM fans to the circle. and well, WM has always been regarded as something different, non-mainstream (despite it's DC's) and so, using a cartoon that freely approaches sides of the story that weren't created by the very author - no matter how good those new authors could be - maybe looked, to those non-fans eyes as another commercial attempt of turning an unknown product into something more 'acceptable'.

once again, I'd love to see those WM World's reflections, i got no problem with that. but unless it was done very, very, very carefully...I'm not sure if it wouldn't blow screw up in the end.

to the most hard-core WM fans, WM is a book, not a comic book...and they still want it to be considered like that. creating a cartoon that is kinda of a prequel or a, like you stated, Clone Wars to Watchmen, would give those guys the creeps. And believe me, they're the first ones to easily and very powerfully flush the whole thing away. Zack first, I should remind.

I loved it. But because the world is the world...and watchmen is watchmen...it wouldn't make it, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:52 pm 
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I am 100% with you that if they ever did a show like this, it would have to be done very, very carefully, or it would dissapoint the fans of the book and even fans of the movie as well. It would be pretty neat though if Alan Moore wrote the show, but, we all know, like THAT will ever happen. Moore would have to be forced at gunpoint to do something like this. If we could get a writer who is a big fan of Watchmen to do this show, I think it may have a shot.

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:06 pm 
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this is maybe slightly off topic but,

I've thought ever since hearing that the movie went through such hell way before this project, that instead of a movie Watchmen would have been better adapted to a twelve episode series, each episode covering an issue of the book and being about an hour long.

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:07 pm 
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I don't ever remember a company talking about it, but some fans would rather they cut nothing out and make it an HBO mini series instead.

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:07 pm 
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Quote:
I've thought ever since hearing that the movie went through such hell way before this project, that instead of a movie Watchmen would have been better adapted to a twelve episode series, each episode covering an issue of the book and being about an hour long.


see this would be a good idea in the basics, if the movie was not being made.

Quote:
Watchmen doesn't promote religion, but where in Star Wars does it?


there is this one little bit in one of the movies (if forget which one) and one of the dudes mentions a little thing called THE FORCE!!!

VADER: Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've
constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to
the power of the Force.

MOTTI: Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader.
Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure
up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the
Rebel's hidden fort...


Suddenly Motti chokes and starts to turn blue under Vader's
spell.

Quote:
it does promote team work (Rorschach and Nite Owl)


yeah, and dan jumps ship when things get tough... great example

Quote:
The Watchmen world is not finite. It's an alternative universe where certain events manipulated in the past cause a revolutionized future, and this spans on forever. There could be many spin-offs because of this fact.


oh so we could have another dcu with the multi-verse with watchmen taking place on earth 27-a. if this is the case, i will burn my copy now. no, in my opinion the watchmen set in an alternate timeline probably caused by some slight event and a butterfly effect... and should stay on the one path to deviate from the majority of comic crap out today with characters dying and coming back and dying and coming back.

do you not agree that moore and gibbons gave us all we needed to see/know? - except for the ambiguous ending ofcourse, which, like 2001: a space odyssey is probably intended to provoke thought and discussion? i.e. this forum!!!

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:00 pm 
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Yes, you're totally right about the force, however, I did just remember religion in Watchmen. Veidt seems to follow the system of beliefs that was carried out by Ramses II in Ancient Egypt, which could be classified as religion.

Also, just because Dan may have bailed out later doesn't mean that he never worked with Rorschach in the first place. You may or may not remember Dan breaking into prison to release Rorschach for his help, and then flying to Karnak with him. Yeah...

In addition, I'm not saying to stray off the one path, I'm trying to say that we could make spin-offs off the future of this timeline. At the end, Laurie suggests becoming a hero again, and Sally encourages her to have a kid (potential superhero?). Meanwhile, the immortal Dr. Manhattan continues with his adventures. This is NOT the end of superheroes.

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:08 am 
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Quote:
Watchmen doesn't promote religion, but where in Star Wars does it?


thats what you said...

Quote:
Veidt seems to follow the system of beliefs that was carried out by Ramses II in Ancient Egypt, which could be classified as religion.


dude! just admit you're wrong sometimes! its ok!

Quote:
In addition, I'm not saying to stray off the one path, I'm trying to say that we could make spin-offs off the future of this timeline. At the end, Laurie suggests becoming a hero again, and Sally encourages her to have a kid (potential superhero?). Meanwhile, the immortal Dr. Manhattan continues with his adventures. This is NOT the end of superheroes.


1. kid superhero? like her mother forced here to be and hated it? what would we have? owl-boy or owl-mite? again, just kill me...

2. Dr. Manhattan has no real interest in human affairs any more - and probably goes back to mars to watch tiny molecular changes.

3. without rorschach, its not going to work, is it? he is almost everyone's favourite character - and would be the only reason i would watch a show.

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:18 am 
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iancontinence wrote:
Quote:
Watchmen doesn't promote religion, but where in Star Wars does it?


thats what you said...

Quote:
Veidt seems to follow the system of beliefs that was carried out by Ramses II in Ancient Egypt, which could be classified as religion.


dude! just admit you're wrong sometimes! its ok!

Quote:
In addition, I'm not saying to stray off the one path, I'm trying to say that we could make spin-offs off the future of this timeline. At the end, Laurie suggests becoming a hero again, and Sally encourages her to have a kid (potential superhero?). Meanwhile, the immortal Dr. Manhattan continues with his adventures. This is NOT the end of superheroes.


1. kid superhero? like her mother forced here to be and hated it? what would we have? owl-boy or owl-mite? again, just kill me...

2. Dr. Manhattan has no real interest in human affairs any more - and probably goes back to mars to watch tiny molecular changes.

3. without rorschach, its not going to work, is it? he is almost everyone's favourite character - and would be the only reason i would watch a show.


Yes, originally I did say that Watchmen didn't promote religion, but after I thought about it for a while, Veidt's religion is the Ancient Egyptian religion. Don't believe me? Look it up, it's a real religion.

Also, the next superheroes don't have to come from Dan and Laurie, they could come from normal people. Where do you think the original Minutemen came from? Or there could've been kids inspired by Rorschach or Nite Owl to become heroes. You never really know...And yes, you're right, a TV show without Rorschach wouldn't work, but I just think this board is way off topic now.

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:40 am 
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Or there could've been kids inspired by Rorschach or Nite Owl to become heroes.


what would be interesting about that?

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 Post subject: Re: TV show idea
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:03 pm 
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strongerlovingworld wrote:
Also, the next superheroes don't have to come from Dan and Laurie, they could come from normal people. Where do you think the original Minutemen came from? Or there could've been kids inspired by Rorschach or Nite Owl to become heroes. You never really know...And yes, you're right, a TV show without Rorschach wouldn't work, but I just think this board is way off topic now.
Well, let me try to sum up the topic and get it back on track.

You proposed an animated TV series to work as an extension or prequel to the Watchmen story. If I'm not mistaken, you were hoping to speculate with the rest of us on what the nature of this TV show would be, while the overwhelming majority seems to be in agreement that such a show should not be made.

Does that sound about right?

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