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 Post subject: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:30 pm 
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It was mentioned in another thread that one way a Watchmen comics sequel could be done would be in the format of Watchmen: Infinities, which, if you're not familiar, covers stories that revolve around hypothetic "what ifs" that deviate in some way from the original story.

For example, what if somehow Rorschach and Dan stopped Veidt? How would the story of Watchmen continue from there? How about what if Blake managed to kill Veidt and was never thrown from that window? The possibilities are endless, and, what's better, the original story would remain untainted by any continuation to the story a sequel would have.

What are your best suggestions for Watchmen: Infinities stories?

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:10 pm 
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I know that this isn't exactly helping the thread but I still think that this would be a stupid idea.

But if you have to know, I think that it would be cool if they did one where the Squid teleported Adrian and then flew off into space with the Kool-Aid Man.

Also, Rorschach doesn't die.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:38 pm 
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what if veidt didn't catch the bullet?

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:39 pm 
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AvatarIII wrote:
what if veidt didn't catch the bullet?

Dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:04 pm 
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If you wanted a really short story; what if Adrian really knackered his foot/ankle kicking open The Comedian's door, and was subsequently beaten to death/shot by Blake as an intruder?

Or, what if instead of getting pissed (drunk) and blubbering to Moloch, The Comedian went straight to his Government contacts and told them everything? Wouldn't make a good story, but raises interesting questions.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:07 pm 
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Okay, What if Jon Osterman was never transformed into Dr. Manhattan?

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:14 pm 
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What if Rorschach hadn't had a shitty childhood and upbringing?

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:15 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
Okay, What if Jon Osterman was never transformed into Dr. Manhattan?


The repercussions for the story would be immense. At the very basic level, Rorschach wouldn't have his mask and there'd be huge differences in technology. I wonder if the timeline of the Watchmen world would eventually converge back to being more similar - or even joining - ours?

Which raises another interesting question; we know that the Watchmen timeline is subtly different even before Dr Manhattan - is there a pivotal event somewhere in the timeline that causes it to diverge from ours? If so, what could it be....?

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:50 pm 
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Satan's Slut wrote:
Which raises another interesting question; we know that the Watchmen timeline is subtly different even before Dr Manhattan - is there a pivotal event somewhere in the timeline that causes it to diverge from ours? If so, what could it be....?


Is it different? I thought things started changing after the arrival of Dr Manhattan.


tbone wrote:
What if Rorschach hadn't had a shitty childhood and upbringing?


I don't know. It's hard to say if he would have become a vigilante or not. If you think about Hollis Mason, he seemed to have a well adjusted childhood yet he still became a crime fighter (both as a cop, and costumed "adventurer"). Maybe he would have become a cop? He definitely is a product of his environment. Raised poor by an unloving mother, no father figure, exposed to sex at an early age, all of this would help build the kind of man he would become. So, lets say he had two loving parents. Well, he might have developed a more healthy view on sex. How about his world view? Maybe he would see the world in less black and white terms? But maybe growing up in such harsh circumstances helped him survive in such an often cruel and bleak world? It's possible that Rorschach might have not even had the urge to become a crime fighter. He might have become the type who would not want to get involved

Godziller66 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
what if veidt didn't catch the bullet?

Dead.


Yeah, and so how would his death affect the story? I guess Dan and co would have to dispose of the body. And have to lie about it. Or would they? It would also change their stance on keeping quiet about Veidt's plan. How would Rorshach feel about this? He might see it as justice being served. But would he lie about it out of self preservation? Would he also want to keep Veidt's plan a secret? Would Rorschach still die in this scenario? Questions, questions....

Here's some more:

-What if Dr Manhattan wasn't the only one with super powers? What if they all had them? How does that impact the story, and not just in tone?

-What if Jon was Russian? I know this sounds like a stupid question but how would it change the story if he were "Dr Chernobyl?" Russia has superiority over the U.S. What do they do with it? In what way does that affect the story?

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:26 pm 
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t3cii wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
Which raises another interesting question; we know that the Watchmen timeline is subtly different even before Dr Manhattan - is there a pivotal event somewhere in the timeline that causes it to diverge from ours? If so, what could it be....?


Is it different? I thought things started changing after the arrival of Dr Manhattan.

The Minute Men.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:51 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
t3cii wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
Which raises another interesting question; we know that the Watchmen timeline is subtly different even before Dr Manhattan - is there a pivotal event somewhere in the timeline that causes it to diverge from ours? If so, what could it be....?


Is it different? I thought things started changing after the arrival of Dr Manhattan.

The Minute Men.


Which were before Dr. Manhattan. So, in all likelihood, had Manhattan not come to surface, Watchmen would not have taken place.


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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:55 pm 
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WJK wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
t3cii wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
Which raises another interesting question; we know that the Watchmen timeline is subtly different even before Dr Manhattan - is there a pivotal event somewhere in the timeline that causes it to diverge from ours? If so, what could it be....?


Is it different? I thought things started changing after the arrival of Dr Manhattan.

The Minute Men.


Which were before Dr. Manhattan. So, in all likelihood, had Manhattan not come to surface, Watchmen would not have taken place.

Yeah, but I'm just saying that there were indeed differences before Dr. Manhattan's arrival on the scene. They just got really drastic after that.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:12 pm 
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I think the first timeline split happens when criminals start wearing Halloween masks and costumes to hide their identities. This causes Rolf Muller, Hollis Mason and a few others to dress up and go after them. That's what starts the masked vigilante craze.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:22 pm 
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I felt really proud of myself for earning an internet thread, but I've been extensively misquoted. What I was talking about(this is actually someone else's summation of my suggestion):
Quote:
So it's not really a sequel so much as it's a bunch of one-shots exploring all the possible outcomes of the squid attack and Rorschach's journal drop, without establishing which one is actually what happened?

I think the fact that I said Infinities threw everybody off. I was talking about hypothetical continuations, not divergences.
Godziller66 wrote:
I know that this isn't exactly helping the thread but I still think that this would be a stupid idea..

I know this isn't helping the thread, but I agree with him. I don't want to be mean, but DoomsdayClock, what you thought I suggest IS stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:35 pm 
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AmongstFoundations wrote:
I know this isn't helping the thread, but I agree with him. I don't want to be mean, but DoomsdayClock, what you thought I suggest IS stupid.

I don't know who suggested what, but it evolved into someone mentioning Infinities. A series of hypothetical sequels, to me, is stupid because Watchmen's ending needs to be ambiguous. Simply putting a disclaimer on the book saying "these sequels are just hypothetical" is plain silly. What fiction isn't hypothetical?

Infinities based stories gives another writer the ability to craft good solid stories based on shifts somewhere in the story line. At least these shifts would give us new insights on characters who took a different path. Plus, due to the nature of these parallel universe stories would leave the original unsullied.

I still think its a great idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:38 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
AmongstFoundations wrote:
I know this isn't helping the thread, but I agree with him. I don't want to be mean, but DoomsdayClock, what you thought I suggest IS stupid.

I don't know who suggested what, but it evolved into someone mentioning Infinities. A series of hypothetical sequels, to me, is stupid because Watchmen's ending needs to be ambiguous. Simply putting a disclaimer on the book saying "these sequels are just hypothetical" is plain silly. What fiction isn't hypothetical?

Infinities based stories gives another writer the ability to craft good solid stories based on shifts somewhere in the story line. At least these shifts would give us new insights on characters who took a different path. Plus, due to the nature of these parallel universe stories would leave the original unsullied.

I still think its a great idea.

Yeah, I actually like the idea of "What If?" stories much more than hypothetical sequels.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:03 pm 
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Both are equally valid, in my humble opinion.

Here's a good hypothetical: What if Russia figured "Screw Dr. Manhattan" and launched their nukes anyway?

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:04 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Here's a good hypothetical: What if Russia figured "Screw Dr. Manhattan" and launched their nukes anyway?

Dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:07 pm 
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I suppose "hypothetical sequel" is bad phrasing on my part, and I see now that what your suggesting is a composite of several suggestions, so, sorry for that, BUT...
DoomsdayClock wrote:
A series of hypothetical sequels, to me, is stupid because Watchmen's ending needs to be ambiguous.

In bold: the entire point. Each one explores a different possibility of the ending, therefore, no ending can claim to be the "true" ending, preserving the ambiguity.

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 Post subject: Re: Watchmen: Infinities
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:15 pm 
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AmongstFoundations wrote:
DoomsdayClock wrote:
A series of hypothetical sequels, to me, is stupid because Watchmen's ending needs to be ambiguous.

In bold: the entire point. Each one explores a different possibility of the ending, therefore, no ending can claim to be the "true" ending, preserving the ambiguity.

It still wouldn't allow us to decide for ourselves so much as throw a bunch of possible scenarios on the table.

Like a multiple choice question.

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