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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:42 am 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
..it's hard for me to get too riled up over rumors and hearsay. I need a more concrete idea of exactly what DC is doing and why (you know, besides the obvious).

This is more than rumor and hearsay. It's happening. Sure, I don't have evidence I can show on who will be involved and for what specifically. But based on very good intelligence (and I mean individuals with "carnal" knowledge of Watchmen/DC) expect to see new Watchmen comics - most likely specific character prequels. I want to say more, but I think I've said all I really can for now. I've been promised interviews by some of the players here but only after they've been told they can talk about it. Is there a chance that this and next weeks meetings will have the result of DC saying, "ah, forget it." Sure, I guess anything is possible, but I would put that outcome in the slim chance to none column.

We know that in the past Warners/DC have looked at these boards to get the pulse of true fans, so keep posting. I look at the forums often, and we typically have anywhere from 3-8 guests online. Lately that number has jumped to an average of 40. Somebody's watching.

Now's the time to speak out. Are you for these comics or against? What do you want to see? What don't you want to see? Who would you like to see attached? Gibbons? Higgins? Len Wein? Someone else?

The boards have been slow, but this is big news. Get your friends to come back and post now so that the fans voices are heard.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:56 am 
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if it happens it happens, it's a big gamble, but it will still be interesting to see, I'd rather they left it alone, but what are you gonna do?

to be honest, if it IS done, i hope to Glycon that it's either really good, or totally shit.

if it's really good, then yeah it would be interesting, and if it's really shit it will be easy to ignore, and NO ONE will want to consider it canon, what i don't want to see is mediocrity, Watchmen deserves better than that.

i guess my choices for creators would probably be Gibbons and Higgins on art duty, for consistency, and Morrison (no joke) or Gaiman writing it, because who else? so long as an American doesn't write it.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:32 am 
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I may not be Writer Of Wrongs, but I sure as hell can disagree with a post like this:

DoomsdayClock wrote:
What is the difference between Moore taking classic literary characters that some other writers created and inserting them into his own comic book series' and other writers taking the Watchmen characters and inserting them into their own comics. What gives Moore the right and not anyone else?


For starters, this isn't The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, this was a bunch of characters that had been overzealously bought by DC, and at the time they didn't know what the hell to do with them (they still don't) but that didn't mean no one could've thought of a decent idea for what to do with those people, even then, Alan Moore never really used The Question, Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, Batman, etc. He created his own, unique visions of the classical superhero categories to express his viewpoints.

Like it or not, in decent moral terms (certainly not legal, thank you DC), he has the sole rights to those characters because he created them, and he made a deal with DC Comics to get those rights returned to him as soon as the final copy was released, was it a bad deal perhaps ? Undoubtedly, but that doesn't mean DC is any less responsible of not being true to their word, and if Moore is guilty of anything, it's of being naive.

DoomsdayClock wrote:
Is it simply because Moore has been outspoken about his anger toward DC? The writers Moore borrowed from are all dead, but how do we know that Jules Verne or H. Rider Haggard were alive they wouldn't be vexed at Moore for what he did to their creations?


Because they're DEAD, even then, how do you know he wouldn't have approached them for permission to use those characters if they had been alive ? I can't know if he would have approached them (just to point out), but you can't make the same comparisons about DC and Alan Moore, DC Comics is not dead, Verne and Haggard are.

Also, you have this strange notion that DC was somehow being "held back" by Moore into not doing more Watchmen, when the truth here is that they could've done it all along, they're just not afraid anymore of the consequences that bad PR from the original writer could come, they've done their numbers, they've gotten to their conclussions, they've admitted their lack of ethics and are perfectly okay with releasing the new versions, even if Alan Moore goes to any lenghts at discrediting them.

DoomsdayClock wrote:
And what about Dave Gibbons's rights? He was co-creator - not just the guy who happened to draw it - so if he's agreeable to see these new incarnations, why doesn't he have the right to green-light such projects?


Same point, if Gibbons green-lights or doesn't Watchmen, it doesn't matter, DC Comics doesn't need him to do that, they don't need his approval.

For my part, I think Gibbons is either:

A) A greedy fuck who has finally shown his true colors.

B) The "supervisor" of any new Watchmen work, making sure that whatever comes out will be, at the very least, a decent read.

DoomsdayClock wrote:
Everyone seems to put Moore on this intellectual and moral high horse, but he took DC's money to create Watchmen. He willingly signed the contract; they let Moore pick Gibbons as his partner; and moreover, DC took a huge risk on a far-out concept and let Moore and Gibbons make the series they wanted to make. What did DC do that was so "evil?" What did they do that they haven't done to every comics writer and artist in the history of comics. What have they done that Marvel hasn't done - or any corporation.


Oh my, poor DC Comics, they made an investment on a writer that was a sure-bet with the critics with a concept that could be appealing precisely to the people that liked his work, if not to almost everyone who had already enjoyed his previous works with superheroes.

As for what they did ? Well, if you don't think being shifty with your promises is unworthy of any reprimand, then god knows what other things fall on your category of "wrong".

DoomsdayClock wrote:
If you think about it, Stan Lee has been "treated worse" than Alan Moore, but Lee's relationship with Marvel is solid. The comics industry is a business, period. Moore wants it to be about "art," but it's not. It took Moore a while to figure this out and now he lives on the fringe of comics and is happy to be there doing his art. I'm happy for him, but I think he needs to get over himself. He's not the martyr he would like us all to think he is.


I have to say, you could not have found a worse example in comic book industry other than Stan Lee, the de-facto mascot of Marvel. You think he goes to all those conventions and speaks to all the fans out of the pureness of his heart ? This is the guy who willingly gave up all creator rights to his work, cashed his checks, and went home happy, whatever you may say about Moore, it certainly has nothing to do with Stan Lee.

DoomsdayClock wrote:
I love Moore's early work. He was a genius. But he needs to relax and see what other talents can do with Watchmen - just like he re-invented Verne and Haggard. Not because these new artist can do better, but because they should just have the freedom to try.


That freedom has never been hampered by anyone other than DC Comics, Alan Moore didn't give up on his friendship with Gibbons even when they had diametrically opposite views on the franchise, if those people really wanted to work on Watchmen, then they should have manned the fuck up and stand to DC, if they really don't care about Moore know, then they sure as hell didn't 10 or 20 years before, I'm sorry, but we're all grown-ups here and I think we, as well as Darwyn Cooke, JMS, JG Jones, Andy Kubert and Brian Azzarello can very well own up to our actions.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:42 am 
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Well since this is happening, I would really be interested on some issues covering Nite Owl II or Rorschach. They could be standalone.

About the art, what kind of design do you think they will use? Closest to the movie, or the GN? Or a mix of both?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:10 am 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
Curiosity Inc. wrote:
..it's hard for me to get too riled up over rumors and hearsay. I need a more concrete idea of exactly what DC is doing and why (you know, besides the obvious).

This is more than rumor and hearsay. It's happening.

Allow me to rephrase: I'm looking for more concrete information on what exactly they're doing. If they're doing sequels, then we have serious cause for concern. If these are going to be prequels or spin-offs, that's a horse of a different color. Aside from some rumors and speculation, I'm seeing very little evidence as to precisely what content will be made, which characters will be involved and how. Until that happens, I can only get so angry and/or thrilled.

DoomsdayClock wrote:
We know that in the past Warners/DC have looked at these boards to get the pulse of true fans, so keep posting. I look at the forums often, and we typically have anywhere from 3-8 guests online. Lately that number has jumped to an average of 40. Somebody's watching.

Well, answer me this: If DC is paying attention to its fans, and if the fans have quite vocally been against expanding Watchmen up to this point, then why is DC doing this to begin with? In point of fact, I could probably make the same argument regarding the whole universe reboot.

Another thing that I'm waiting for is to see how DC tries to sell this to its fans. They can't just come out and say that they're doing this to make a quick buck, after all. They'll need to address their situation with Alan Moore, they'll need to give some idea about their plans for the Watchmen universe going forward, and they'll need to persuade us that this will be beneficial for the comic book that we all know and love.

The bottom line is that someone up at DC thought this was a good idea. Someone among the higher-ups was determined to make this happen. They've got to talk us into being every bit as enthusiastic about this, and how they choose to do that will be very telling.

Alexrd wrote:
About the art, what kind of design do you think they will use? Closest to the movie, or the GN? Or a mix of both?

...Alexrd, you're a genius.

If DC tried to make this a tie-in to the movie, utilizing that as an alternate universe while keeping the original GN pure... well, that would solve all sorts of problems. God knows how well it worked for the film's merchandising.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:24 am 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Alexrd wrote:
About the art, what kind of design do you think they will use? Closest to the movie, or the GN? Or a mix of both?

...Alexrd, you're a genius.

If DC tried to make this a tie-in to the movie, utilizing that as an alternate universe while keeping the original GN pure... well, that would solve all sorts of problems. God knows how well it worked for the film's merchandising.


I think it worked. Even though 'The End is Nigh' story wasn't anything special, I quite liked it.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:30 am 
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I don't mind. It's not something I necessarily want, but if it's out there I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't check it out. So what would I want the series to do? I'd want the series to be bold and not worry about pissing off the fans. A safe Watchmen series would be boring. Yes you can do a "Comedian in Vietnam" story, but it better be as inventive as what Moore and Gibbons did on Watchmen. If you have been handed this project, you can't approach this as if you're doing some Wolverine one off. Either try to live up to the material or don't bother. Any of us can come up with our own Watchmen fan fiction.

Hypothetical question, but how would people have felt if it was Moore and Gibbons revisiting Watchmen? Say Moore wanted to redo the series, but set it in today's time? Would you guys cut them more slack?

Something else to think about, suppose Warner Bros want to adapt these stories into another movie?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:23 am 
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Alexrd wrote:
Well since this is happening, I would really be interested on some issues covering Nite Owl II or Rorschach. They could be standalone.


I agree with this, despite me not really wanting any spin-off stuff, but considering that video game came out, I think this would be an exception.


t3cii wrote:
I don't mind. It's not something I necessarily want, but if it's out there I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't check it out. So what would I want the series to do? I'd want the series to be bold and not worry about pissing off the fans. A safe Watchmen series would be boring. Yes you can do a "Comedian in Vietnam" story, but it better be as inventive as what Moore and Gibbons did on Watchmen. If you have been handed this project, you can't approach this as if you're doing some Wolverine one off. Either try to live up to the material or don't bother. Any of us can come up with our own Watchmen fan fiction.

Hypothetical question, but how would people have felt if it was Moore and Gibbons revisiting Watchmen? Say Moore wanted to redo the series, but set it in today's time? Would you guys cut them more slack?

Something else to think about, suppose Warner Bros want to adapt these stories into another movie?


If it was Moore & Gibbons & Higgins again, I would have no problems at all, it would be like Tron: Legacy again.


As for movies, no thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:27 pm 
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Okay, so this latest news has kinda brought me out of "retirement". ;)

I'm still skeptical about this and not sure if it's a good idea, but I'll at least give it a shot before dismissing it out-right.

Thankfully, I'm hearing 4 separate (but somehow connected) mini-series that are prequels, but nothing post-WATCHMEN. Which is a big relief. As is Mr. Gibbons being onboard.

And Darwyn Cooke scripting the overall plot and running it creatively makes it interesting as well. He's certainly no hack.

We shall see...

In any case, interesting times ahead for us all.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:54 pm 
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Alexrd wrote:
Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Alexrd wrote:
About the art, what kind of design do you think they will use? Closest to the movie, or the GN? Or a mix of both?

...Alexrd, you're a genius.

If DC tried to make this a tie-in to the movie, utilizing that as an alternate universe while keeping the original GN pure... well, that would solve all sorts of problems. God knows how well it worked for the film's merchandising.


I think it worked. Even though 'The End is Nigh' story wasn't anything special, I quite liked it.

ditto.
The movie was my first intro to Watchmen and I love the designs.
Especially Nite Owl(II)'s. Like thats a big secret or anything.
But seriously I would totally go for this stuff. I think I like the idea of the movie's designs, in the art style of the GN.
If the art sucks on this, I will spit venom all over it.
And then tweet about it 50 trillion times.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:21 pm 
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Last edited by People Must Be Told. on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DOLLAR SHILL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:05 pm 
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People Must Be Told. wrote:
OH, GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT. I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYONE WOULD DO THAT...


Do you seriously think DC would explain their masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

They released the prequels thirty-five minutes ago.


Awesome picture.

Still, The New Frontier movie was quite bad.

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 Post subject: Re: DOLLAR SHILL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:13 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
People Must Be Told. wrote:
OH, GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT. I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYONE WOULD DO THAT...


Do you seriously think DC would explain their masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

They released the prequels thirty-five minutes ago.


Awesome picture.

Still, The New Frontier movie was quite bad.


It wasn't bad, it just wasn't great.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:52 pm 
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I have absolutely zero interest in prequels. I won't buy 'em. I won't look at 'em. When they come out, for me, they will not exist.

Blatant cash grabs are always doomed to failure and these will fail as well.

They are not getting one penny of my money nor one nanosecond of my time.

That's all I have to say about this garbage.


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 Post subject: Re: DOLLAR SHILL
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:58 pm 
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Smutty wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
People Must Be Told. wrote:
OH, GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT. I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYONE WOULD DO THAT...


Do you seriously think DC would explain their masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

They released the prequels thirty-five minutes ago.


Awesome picture.

Still, The New Frontier movie was quite bad.


It wasn't bad, it just wasn't great.


It was quite incoherent, it was about nothing.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:20 am 
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Mr. Ex wrote:
I have absolutely zero interest in prequels. I won't buy 'em. I won't look at 'em. When they come out, for me, they will not exist.

Blatant cash grabs are always doomed to failure and these will fail as well.

They are not getting one penny of my money nor one nanosecond of my time.

That's all I have to say about this garbage.


If they were gi ving this project to a bunch of rookies who are trying to break in... then I'd be more upset, but Cooke is a highly praised writer/artist, and hasn't it been said that Gibbons is involved? I know he didn't write the story but Watchmen is as much his baby as it is Moore, so how do we know this is a blatant cash grab and not Gibbons just trying to tell the side stories that were ebing considered way back in the 80s?

And another thing about the cash grab, the movie wasn't a success, and I'm sure a lot of people who read comics won't care enough to buy these anyways... if you are trying to do a cash grab it would make more sense for them to add a few more bat tittles or some Green Lantern series... not try and do prequels to a 25 year old book that has a fan base who will most likely reject them

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:43 am 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Mr. Ex wrote:
I have absolutely zero interest in prequels. I won't buy 'em. I won't look at 'em. When they come out, for me, they will not exist.

Blatant cash grabs are always doomed to failure and these will fail as well.

They are not getting one penny of my money nor one nanosecond of my time.

That's all I have to say about this garbage.


If they were gi ving this project to a bunch of rookies who are trying to break in... then I'd be more upset, but Cooke is a highly praised writer/artist, and hasn't it been said that Gibbons is involved? I know he didn't write the story but Watchmen is as much his baby as it is Moore, so how do we know this is a blatant cash grab and not Gibbons just trying to tell the side stories that were ebing considered way back in the 80s?

And another thing about the cash grab, the movie wasn't a success, and I'm sure a lot of people who read comics won't care enough to buy these anyways... if you are trying to do a cash grab it would make more sense for them to add a few more bat tittles or some Green Lantern series... not try and do prequels to a 25 year old book that has a fan base who will most likely reject them

That.... makes all kinds of sense.

You guys know I'm getting these as soon as they hit the shelves.

In fact I wish they'd have more stuff on watchmen out there.
Sequels, prequels, whatever. The original will always be right there. Theres not much you can do to tarnish it.
No body is talking about rewriting it. Just making more stuff related to it.
Pointless or not, I'm excited.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:44 am 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
If they were gi ving this project to a bunch of rookies who are trying to break in... then I'd be more upset, but Cooke is a highly praised writer/artist, and hasn't it been said that Gibbons is involved? I know he didn't write the story but Watchmen is as much his baby as it is Moore, so how do we know this is a blatant cash grab and not Gibbons just trying to tell the side stories that were ebing considered way back in the 80s?


Somebody dangles the possibility of Darwyn Cooke and you're already on board ?

Also, even while I do not hold domain over the truth, I can very well ascertain that those stories do not exist, Gibbons has never made reference to anything regarding new material of Watchmen, if anything he has always been on board with not making a sequel, because he knows just what kind of damage it does to the original comic.

Now, what could lead me to believe this is a cash grab ? Because the current board running DC Comics is incapable of admitting that their predecessors pulled a sleazy unethical move on the people that got their company, and their industry, to where they are now. They want to hold onto it like a psychotic mother does to a boy who is not her own child.

And frankly, it can be Gibbons' baby as much as he wants, but there can only be two to tango.

Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
And another thing about the cash grab, the movie wasn't a success, and I'm sure a lot of people who read comics won't care enough to buy these anyways... if you are trying to do a cash grab it would make more sense for them to add a few more bat tittles or some Green Lantern series... not try and do prequels to a 25 year old book that has a fan base who will most likely reject them


Be real man, I still remember people spitting on DC for The New 52, saying they would never read another DC book again in their lives, blah blah blah.

Then BOOM ! Justice League # 1 sells almost two hundred thousand copies in first print alone.

DC knows very well that their fanbase is full of crap, they will whine and whine and whine all they want, but when push comes to shove, they will all buy whatever nonsense comes out related to Watchmen.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:58 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Somebody dangles the possibility of Darwyn Cooke and you're already on board ?


The man has proved time and time again he can tell a good story, I have no reason to not have faith in him... hell... I believe in Darwyn Cooke

feliciano182 wrote:
Also, even while I do not hold domain over the truth, I can very well ascertain that those stories do not exist, Gibbons has never made reference to anything regarding new material of Watchmen, if anything he has always been on board with not making a sequel, because he knows just what kind of damage it does to the original comic.


I know that Gibbons would not approve a sequel, and I agree 100%, you guys have to know by now my loyalty to not only Watchmen but comics as a whole... that beng said... maybe the role playing game's story will be put into comic form thus making the details revealed in the manuals official? We have little to no information on this and to say that this is DC trying to emulate Deliverance to Moore's Ned Beatty is more than a little premature.

feliciano182 wrote:
Now, what could lead me to believe this is a cash grab ? Because the current board running DC Comics is incapable of admitting that their predecessors pulled a sleazy unethical move on the people that got their company, and their industry, to where they are now. They want to hold onto it like a psychotic mother does to a boy who is not her own child.


Did they pull a sleazy move? yes. Did Moore willingly sign the contract? yes. This wasn't a Godfather moment where vito goes in and "negotiates" the escape clause in Johnny Fontaine's Contract... he signed because at tihe time it must have been the ebst deal he thought he could get. I'm not excusing DC, but DC is not Image or Dark Horse or Dynamite, when you create for them... you create for them and the characters become theirs, whether that's what Moore wanted or not, that's who he got in bed with... he may now feel a stinging in his lons because DC doesn't practice safe sex... but he knew they were snakes before he picked them up.

feliciano182 wrote:
Be real man, I still remember people spitting on DC for The New 52, saying they would never read another DC book again in their lives, blah blah blah.

Then BOOM ! Justice League # 1 sells almost two hundred thousand copies in first print alone.

DC knows very well that their fanbase is full of crap, they will whine and whine and whine all they want, but when push comes to shove, they will all buy whatever nonsense comes out related to Watchmen.


Consider two options a prequel to a 25 year old story or a new series with Johns (despite your dislike) one of the hottest writers at the moment paired with Jim Lee, a fan favorite for years featuring the stars of the dcu?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:30 am 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
The man has proved time and time again he can tell a good story, I have no reason to not have faith in him... hell... I believe in Darwyn Cooke


So do I man, talent is not lacking in him.

But is it impossible to entertain the possibility that he wants to cash in too ?

Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
We have little to no information on this and to say that this is DC trying to emulate Deliverance to Moore's Ned Beatty is more than a little premature.


It's too soon for any kind of opinion, but that's precisely what speculation is about, and that doesn't mean the validity of any claim can be thrown out the window at this point.

Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
he signed because at tihe time it must have been the ebst deal he thought he could get. I'm not excusing DC, but DC is not Image or Dark Horse or Dynamite, when you create for them... you create for them and the characters become theirs, whether that's what Moore wanted or not, that's who he got in bed with... he may now feel a stinging in his lons because DC doesn't practice safe sex... but he knew they were snakes before he picked them up.


Unless the publishers explicitly say they are going to give them back to you as part of the agreement you made when you got involved to make the project in the first place, specially when that very same agreement encompassed complete and absolute control of the story, with no interference whatsoever.

Look, was Moore naive to sign a bad contract ? Absolutely, there's a degree of responsibility that falls on his lap in regards to Watchmen, he made a really bad deal, and he is paying for the consequences of it now. But that doesn't excuse Johns, Lee, Didio and the stockholders into perpetuating a painfully unethical treatment of a writer that has revolutionized an industry that right now, for the most part, fucking sucks.

I wonder what would've happened ten years ago if, as a gesture of good faith, they gave him the rights back and asked him to come work for them.

Isolated, crazy old Alan Moore you say ? I don't think so.

Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Consider two options a prequel to a 25 year old story or a new series with Johns (despite your dislike) one of the hottest writers at the moment paired with Jim Lee, a fan favorite for years featuring the stars of the dcu?


That's not really the point I'm making, also you're bending the truth a little, Watchmen is the most succesful comic book in history, you can't call yourself an avid comic book reader and not have at least an idea of what Watchmen is, when the prequel hits, everyone will be have an opinion on it.

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Last edited by feliciano182 on Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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