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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:07 am 
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Nite Owl's cover looks great.

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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:08 am 
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http://shelf-life.ew.com/2012/02/01/wat ... e-details/

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In an exclusive interview with EW, Darwyn Cooke – whose own highly regarded superhero work includes The New Frontier — explained his vision for Silk Spectre: “One of the first things I did was go back through the original book and look at all the female characters and their position in the story and the arcs they had. What I realized is that as much as I really like Laurie, she’s really only just Dr. Manhattan’s girlfriend and then Nite Owl‘s girlfriend. We never get to see her being self-sufficient and dealing with herself and dealing with her own problems. She’s there for a man. I came up with the idea of looking at the brief period of time when she becomes an adult.” And so the series will take place in the mid-sixties, and track Laurie’s maturation and heroic evolution in the year prior to joining a team of superheroes known as The Crimebusters. Cooke says the book will also focus on how Laurie’s superhero stage mom, the original Silk Spectre, influenced her daughter’s life. “Sally’s very interested in the legacy that can be created form the Silk Spectre brand,” says Cooke. “There’s a little bit of that Toddlers and Tiaras thing going on.” He adds that collaborating with Conner was essential: “The only way I could do this is if Amanda drew it. I desperately wanted this to not feel like a guy who is pushing fifty writing a teenage girl.”

Cooke counts himself among those creators and fans deeply marked and influenced by Watchmen. He discovered the series in his twenties while working as an art director for a fashion magazine, still several years away from beginning his celebrated career as an animator and comic book storyteller. “Every couple months on a slow Saturday I would go down to the store and pick up a few books,” says Cooke. “I could remember picking up the first couple Watchmen and being fascinated by it. Alan had completely reinvented how comics told stories.” But Cooke does find himself less enamored these days by one of the story’s defining aspects: The “pervasive darkness” of its worldview, which was largely an expression of the British Moore’s perspective on The Cold War, the legacy of sixties counter-culture, and the Conservative policies of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan. While Cooke believes Watchmen was “note perfect” for its time, “I’d consider it a masterpiece if it had been able to have found what I would refer to as a hopeful note. … Again, it’s not hard to understand [where Alan was coming from], and that sort of storytelling does have an allure for young people. [But] I think the older you get, the more you look for hope or positive things. Maybe I’m just getting old.” With that in mind, Cooke says Silk Spectre “is probably going to be the most hopeful of all the books.”

DC Comics is keenly aware that Before Watchmen has the potential to spark polarizing response. In fact, the company may even be banking on it. The press release issued today describes the series of titles “as highly anticipated as they are controversial.” (The press release also includes a statement from Watchmen co-creator and artist Dave Gibbons that has the feel of a blessing: “The original series of Watchmen is the complete story that Alan Moore and I wanted tell. However, I appreciate DC’s reasons for this initiative and the wish of the artists and writers involved to pay tribute to our work. May these new additions have the success they desire.”) Watchmen is a sacred text for a generation of comic book readers who came of age during the 1980s, a period of extraordinary creative achievement that saw the medium reach new levels of maturity and sophistication. 1986 was a watershed year, notes Professor Jonathan Gray, who teaches graphic novels at The City University of New York. In addition to Watchmen: Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returnsand Art Spiegelman’s Maus, as well as ongoing landmark works like Love & Rockets by Los Bros. Hernandez and Howard Chaykin’s American Flagg!“I feel the same way about 1986 and comics the way people of a certain age feel about 1963 and rock music: Everything that came out then was awesome, and everything that has come out since is a pale imitation. … The entire industry as we know it today came out of that moment.”

Consequently, many fanboys – most likely adult Gen Xers weaned on cutting edge grim-and-gritty – feel an enduring affection and loyalty to Moore, whose opposition to more Watchmen has been well documented over the years. He even refused to allow his name to be attached to Snyder’s Watchmen film. Professor Gray, 40, admits he’s one of those fans, and cops to having a knee-jerk negative reaction to Before Watchmen. “The problem is that there are hundreds of thousands of people my age who are going to bitch about this because it does seem somewhat sacrilegious,” he says. “I think twentysomthings might go: ‘Cool! New stories!’ But is the cost going to be worth it? It’s a can’t lose in the short term, but I worry about the long term.”

Still, perhaps younger, newer generations of comic book fans have less severe feelings on this matter. And when we told Professor Gray about the top tier talents writing and drawing each series, he practically growled with tortured angst. “They’re going to make it really hard for people to say no. Those creative teams? I would buy, sight unseen, whatever they’re doing. But it’s terrible! The feeling I have in my body right now is the feeling DC wants. They’re like: ‘Yeah, you say you don’t want to buy it, but you totally want to know what Brian Azzarello is going to do with The Comedian.’ And that’s what’s blowing my mind right now. Dammit!”

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:15 am 
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oh god, the concept thing was REAL! thank god they got rid of the Comedian earrings though.

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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:17 am 
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Well, we knew that already. What's yet to be seen is the extent to which it reflects the actual product. Let's hope no smiley.

I think DC have been very smart with how they've handled this. Presumably some sort of embargo was involved and I hope DDC has something he's holding back, but the important thing as far as they're concerned is they've taken control by including interviews with various writers telling us a little of what they're actually doing. Otherwise the confirmation would be met by the inevitably negative/wary articles.
Gibbons' statement suits them as well. He's not endorsing it fully ("Alan Moore loved V for Vendetta!") and he's addressed our concerns, but he's still put a positive spin on things. As if the new comics are fanfics by really talented people.
Personally, I'm relieved that they've landed on "Before Watchmen", rather than "Watchmen Origins: Rorschach". (Oh god I did that myself didn't I...) It means we can still say Watchmen and mean Watchmen. That awful term "the original" isn't forced upon us. They stay separate.

Going to read these, that's as much as I'll say.

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


Last edited by AYBGerrardo on Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:19 am 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
Well, we knew that already. What's yet to be seen is the extent to which it reflects the actual product. Let's hope no smiley.



we did? oh ok then :D

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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:01 pm 
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AvatarIII wrote:
oh god, the concept thing was REAL! thank god they got rid of the Comedian earrings though.


But consider that on the Doc cover... she's in her classic costume. This could be a Wonder Woman/New 52 thing all over again. Where she's beeing shown in various costumes and people get confused.

That being said... most the covers look great and I have to say seeing Len Wein involved does raise my spirits.

I'm going to say it right now... I will buy every single issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Don't forget Higgins...

The remaining two covers

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:10 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
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If that cover were a lady... I would make love to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I'm going to say it right now... I will buy every single issue.


I'm going to say it right now....I will wait for these to be made into one collected volume, then provided they are available at my local library, I may read them.

Here's an old Alan Moore quote:

"It was a good piece. Nothing like it had ever been done in comic before, and I can't think of too many things that have been done like it since. I'm talking about the stuff that was actually important about Watchmen, which was not the superheroes at all- it was the way the story was told. I'm very, very proud of that. I think doing sequels or anything connected to it would only cheapen the original work."

It's the part in bold that speaks to me, because that's how I feel about Watchmen. I think it was how Moore and Gibbons told the story that made it so special. Which is why I think I could never like the film adaptation of it. Once you change the medium, it becomes a different experience, and while Snyder tried to include all the little details, it just didn't work for me. For these stories to matter, I hope they push the limits of the medium like Moore and Gibbons did.

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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Forgot Rorschach...

That's here with all the covers (except CC) in high definition

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:02 pm 
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I would have really liked if Darwyn Cooke had made the Nite Owl issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I'm going to say it right now... I will buy every single issue.

Me too, man. I'm actually pretty optimistic about this.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Am I the only one who is 100% for this? I think it's a pretty cool idea... One thing I don't get though is the one issue per week thing. Is it only one issue out of the seven prequels per week, or one issue of every prequel per week?


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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:22 pm 
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t3cii wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I'm going to say it right now... I will buy every single issue.


I'm going to say it right now....I will wait for these to be made into one collected volume, then provided they are available at my local library, I may read them.


I'm going to say it right now...I will torrent the living shit out of those comics, not a single cent of mine will go into the pockets of uncreative, greedy fucks leeching off talent they could never surpass.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:28 pm 
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agustin wrote:
Am I the only one who is 100% for this? I think it's a pretty cool idea... One thing I don't get though is the one issue per week thing. Is it only one issue out of the seven prequels per week, or one issue of every prequel per week?


Whoa whoa whoa... do we have a new member?

I have no idea how they are going to release these, I was actually confused by that myself.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:33 pm 
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I'm torn. On the one hand, the amount of massive respect I have for "Watchmen" as a perfect, complete graphic novel and the ideas and philosophies it espouses means that I'll view any derivative work with disdain.

On the other hand, I was friendly to the idea of the video game they made, and certainly it was interesting to find out backstory there. I am a sucker for backstory/prequels, (even though I know most peeps aren't) and seeing new stuff come out is, ah, tempting me sorely. Why yes, what DID Rorschach do for all those years before he snapped and before the events of "Watchmen"? I can raise hypotheses and ideas all I like, but it's different from actually see it happen on the page. Stuff like seeing a...let's go with "sane" Rorschach (okay, pre-snap) conduct investigations and stuff holds interesting possibilities. Or hell, seeing Ozymandias encounter event after event that slowly lead him on his path to his plan in "Watchmen". If done right, THAT's going to be REALLY interesting.

The real fear is whether or not it'll be any good. Even if it's actually a decent project/work on its own, it still has to live up to "Watchmen" and to some people it will never match up. It takes some balls to mess with this massively loved work with all its fans, so I hope DC knows what they're doing. If it's bad, oy...they'll will never hear the end of it. Ruining these beloved characters and story is a sure-fire way to make people hate you. Already much of the fan response has been negative.

The way I see it though, is just let it be. If it's awful, well, just ignore its canonicity. If it's decent, consider it a pleasant surprise and let it enrich your "Watchmen" experience. Or just ignore it all together and never touch a page.

It's going to be interesting to see what stories they manage to pull out. I...pretty much felt like I knew the characters and what they did through and through just by reading "Watchmen", but I guess there's quite a few years they could play around with.

I guess it comes down to my literary side's wish that the source material and the immense respect I have for it to be unmarred, while my fanboy side is gleeful at the possibilities and at finally seeing more "Watchmen" material. What they're doing now is "something" Watchmen-related, and the love I have for the work means I can't just write this off/ignore it/not read it. I guess I can always just erase it from my mind and call it non-canon.

So, consider me tentatively interested. It's going to be a wild ride.

--------------

And, and hi again, btw. :D Long time no see.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:12 pm 
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^Yeah, this forum is going to fill up again pretty damn quickly !

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:13 pm 
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I don't want a pre-snap Rorschach, we already got that in the gn, no need to expand further upon it.


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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:17 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
t3cii wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I'm going to say it right now... I will buy every single issue.


I'm going to say it right now....I will wait for these to be made into one collected volume, then provided they are available at my local library, I may read them.


I'm going to say it right now...I will torrent the living shit out of those comics, not a single cent of mine will go into the pockets of uncreative, greedy fucks leeching off talent they could never surpass.


A little extreme

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 Post subject: Re: Before Watchmen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Dog Carcass wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
I'm going to say it right now...I will torrent the living shit out of those comics, not a single cent of mine will go into the pockets of uncreative, greedy fucks leeching off talent they could never surpass.


A little extreme


Alan Moore said it himself man, if they had actual ideas, they would work on them, instead of sucking off whatever life there is out of a franchise that ended a long time ago.

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