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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:55 am 
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Thought this was interesting. It's from J. Michael Straczynski...

J. Michael Straczynski wrote:
If at any point in the last 25 years, Alan had said, “you know, there’s a Watchmen story I’d like to tell,” there’s no question that DC would have given him both the freedom to tell that story and a check big enough to dim the lights at their offices for a week. And there were frequent overtures for him to do just that. In 2005, DC actually offered to give him ownership of the characters if he’d come back to do more stories with them.

They wanted his involvement, solicited his involvement, would have been thrilled at his involvement. He declined at every point. Fair enough. It’s his choice, and it’s his right to make it.

What do you all think about this?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:47 am 
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I thought we knew this much from what Alan's said...

His description of DC's offers with a different spin, mind.

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:14 am 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
I thought we knew this much from what Alan's said...

His description of DC's offers with a different spin, mind.

The old story was they offered him the rights so that DC could do prequels on their own without Moore. We didn't know they offered him huge money to take full creative control of the endeavor, and then we he said no they said, "Okay, we'll throw in the rights too." I don't know, it seems like DC really tried to do the right thing here.

I guess some will argue that when Moore said no they should have not gone forward with the project, but I think there needs to be some give and take. Alan, with his DC grudge just didn't want to give.

And, in the past Moore did say he liked the idea of prequels. In fact, he willingly and enthusiastically participated in the Roleplaying game materials which, in essence, were prequels.

As fans, we (sort of) have the right to be pissed at Moore. Had he cooperated we all could be looking at prequels done by Gibbons, Moore and Higgins. My guess is Gibbons's loyalty and friendship to Moore forced him to not participate in these projects at all.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:29 am 
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There isn't a doubt in my mind that if Alan Moore really did come to DC with a Watchmen story he wanted to tell, he's get the green light and a whole ton of money for it in a heartbeat. DC would still own the merchandising, publishing, and intellectual rights, but they'd pay him.

The thing about copyright disputes is that they always end in the exact same way: Someone gives someone else a big pile of money. So what is a corporation supposed to do when the copyright dispute is against someone who has absolutely no interest in lawsuits or in taking money?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:05 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
As fans, we (sort of) have the right to be pissed at Moore. Had he cooperated we all could be looking at prequels done by Gibbons, Moore and Higgins.

This may be blasphemy, but maybe it's better that we're looking at prequels with new writers and artists breathing life into them anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:21 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
As fans, we (sort of) have the right to be pissed at Moore. Had he cooperated we all could be looking at prequels done by Gibbons, Moore and Higgins.


I really think Moore has let the years of being called a genius play with him a bit.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:23 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
Thought this was interesting. It's from J. Michael Straczynski...

J. Michael Straczynski wrote:
If at any point in the last 25 years, Alan had said, “you know, there’s a Watchmen story I’d like to tell,” there’s no question that DC would have given him both the freedom to tell that story and a check big enough to dim the lights at their offices for a week. And there were frequent overtures for him to do just that. In 2005, DC actually offered to give him ownership of the characters if he’d come back to do more stories with them.

They wanted his involvement, solicited his involvement, would have been thrilled at his involvement. He declined at every point. Fair enough. It’s his choice, and it’s his right to make it.

What do you all think about this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I really think Moore has let the years of being called a genius play with him a bit.


I really think you're a manwhore, how's that for a surprise :D ?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:43 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I really think Moore has let the years of being called a genius play with him a bit.


I really think you're a manwhore, how's that for a surprise :D ?


Wait......... what :?:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:51 am 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Wait......... what :?:


Dr. Brooklyn: Yeah I don't know, probably it would be best to just leave Watchmen Alone.

Darwyn Cooke: I am writing and drawing the Minutemen prequel

Dr. Brooklyn: OHMYGAWD!!!! Alan Moore is a fool, deffinitely, he's insane yo !

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:11 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Wait......... what :?:


Dr. Brooklyn: Yeah I don't know, probably it would be best to just leave Watchmen Alone.

Darwyn Cooke: I am writing and drawing the Minutemen prequel

Dr. Brooklyn: OHMYGAWD!!!! Alan Moore is a fool, deffinitely, he's insane yo !


I have said before that I think Moore has gotten a tad egocentric. I have also said Watchmem should be left alone, I won't deny that. That, though, doesn't mean I can't, you know, change my mind...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:03 pm 
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A tad? It's pretty damn obvious to me.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:11 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Wait......... what :?:


Dr. Brooklyn: Yeah I don't know, probably it would be best to just leave Watchmen Alone.

Darwyn Cooke: I am writing and drawing the Minutemen prequel

Dr. Brooklyn: OHMYGAWD!!!! Alan Moore is a fool, deffinitely, he's insane yo !


I have said before that I think Moore has gotten a tad egocentric. I have also said Watchmem should be left alone, I won't deny that. That, though, doesn't mean I can't, you know, change my mind...


I too, ideally feel that Watchmen should've been left as a standalone piece, however I know I'll end up reading these prequels just because I can't resist an official expansion on the Watchmen universe.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:59 pm 
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If they are trying to use Moore's absolute refusal as justification for making these prequels, they are idiots. The fact that the creator refused even when they offered him so much freedom, ownership, and money does not make me feel any better about prequels. If anything, it makes me feel worse.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:36 pm 
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I'm curious, judging on how many people fight for creators rights based on crappy contracts... what kind of contract did Stan Lee sign? How did he get a contract that was so much different from Kirby's? His characters have been changed and altered so much more than Moore's could ever dream of.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:00 am 
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That actually leads me to wonder what would happen if Stan Lee suddenly started demanding unpaid royalties and the copyrights to his characters back. What a shitstorm that would cause.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:07 am 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I'm curious, judging on how many people fight for creators rights based on crappy contracts... what kind of contract did Stan Lee sign? How did he get a contract that was so much different from Kirby's? His characters have been changed and altered so much more than Moore's could ever dream of.


Your point ?

In any case, as much as Stan Lee likes to keep quiet about it (because nobody bothers to ask him), he was also a businessman in the comic book world, it's a different situation.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:15 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
In any case, as much as Stan Lee likes to keep quiet about it (because nobody bothers to ask him), he was also a businessman in the comic book world, it's a different situation.


My point was... Lee signed contracts probably worse than what moore did and nobody is out crying for him. Think of all the crap his characters have been put through Spidey has signed deals with the devil, Iron Man is an alcoholic, etc.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:36 am 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
In any case, as much as Stan Lee likes to keep quiet about it (because nobody bothers to ask him), he was also a businessman in the comic book world, it's a different situation.


My point was... Lee signed contracts probably worse than what moore did and nobody is out crying for him. Think of all the crap his characters have been put through Spidey has signed deals with the devil, Iron Man is an alcoholic, etc.


The difference is, he's purposefully kept himself connected with marvel and his characters, I wouldn't be surprised if he's consulted when writers do stuff like that, not out of any contractual obligation, just out of respect.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:39 am 
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AvatarIII wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
In any case, as much as Stan Lee likes to keep quiet about it (because nobody bothers to ask him), he was also a businessman in the comic book world, it's a different situation.


My point was... Lee signed contracts probably worse than what moore did and nobody is out crying for him. Think of all the crap his characters have been put through Spidey has signed deals with the devil, Iron Man is an alcoholic, etc.


The difference is, he's purposefully kept himself connected with marvel and his characters, I wouldn't be surprised if he's consulted when writers do stuff like that, not out of any contractual obligation, just out of respect.


I do remember a couple of years ago Stan Lee spoke out against Garth Ennis's interpretation of Nick Fury in the two FURY miniseries

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:46 am 
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A fascinating discussion from 1988 where Moore and Gibbons discuss the idea of a Minutemen prequel vs a Comedian prequel.

Quote:
Steve Whitaker: The Comedian’s is probably the one story begging to be told.
AM: The only possible spin-off we’re thinking of is—maybe in four or five years time, ownership position permitting—we might do a Minutemen book. There would be no sequel.
SW: The story I’m thinking of fits the gap between the end of the Minutemen at the beginning of the 50s and the Comedian’s career—with Ozymandias’ interruption of that…
AM: Hooded Justice.
DG: I think that’s one of the things that adds to the book. When you think of people you know, there are certain areas of their lives you know a lot about and there are other areas you know nothing about—you get years and years where you don’t know what happened to them. At one point that Comedian storyline was suggested to us by DC, to fill in the mosaic and define things. All it would do be to destroy the reality and dilute the whole thing. I think if you read the book closely and you’re fairly intelligent, you can fill in that kind of thing… just as any work of art—a painting, a drawing or any written form of art—leaves a lot to your imagination anyway.
SW: Perhaps it is to the credit of the series that I’ve become particularly interested in one or two characters. I like what you were saying about James M. Cain earlier, Dave—I have a similar fondness for Raymond Chandler which has advanced to the point where I want to read biographies and correspondence.
AM: You just want a little more of him.
SW: All we read here is a series of events around these characters stretching over 12 weeks—something else that I thought was quite neat.
DG: Now I didn’t know that.
SW: Well, it it ends on December 28th it’s 12 weeks.
AM: I’m not surprised.
DG: That’s amazing because the story dictated how much time things took.
AM: Just before we get off the subject of serialisations, continuations end sequels: when I set out to do Watchmen, and I imagine that Dave felt the same way—that we didn’t want to give people what they wanted, we set out to give them what they needed… and the same applies to sequels they may want sequels really badly…
FJ: …but they don’t need them. Sequels are the bane of comic books.
AM: Watchmen is a novel, it’s there and it’s got a beginning, a middle and an end… complete. Frank Herbert managed to turn Dune into a Perry Rhodan for the ’80s with all those sequels. It was a wonderful book to start with that was unreadable by the time it was finished.
DG: It should be very clear in your mind who’s in charge of any artistic endeavour. Obviously, Alan and I could make ourselves a fortune on Watchmen 2 next year. I just can’t think of any reason to do it other than the obvious monetary ones. Minutemen appeals because it’s a different era and a different story.
SW: Lesbian and Homosexual relationships and costumed kinks in a 40s environment…
ALL: Hmmmmmm…

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