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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:15 am 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:

I think we can all agree, there isn't any real information or backstory we need. In fact, I think it's a bad idea to even give us backstory that definitively answers questions.

It was my opinion that prequels would be harmless if they simply told interesting crime/war stories. Episodes from the past from each character that were a snapshot of an adventure they had. If the writers force character development, I think it's a bad thing.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:06 am 
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That's a fairly good point about the comic book community desiring explanations even if it'll tamper with the beauty of the open-ended-ness of the original. I find it frustrating that Before Watchmen will add to canon because I simply can't "ignore" it. The fact is certain questions will be answered that weren't meant to be, we'll lose room for discussion and all for what really?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:02 pm 
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I think as long as they don't go too far (like, confirming that Hooded Justice was killed by Comedian), they should be fine.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:57 pm 
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One point the article makes is that in future discussions of WATCHMEN some lamebrain WILL say, "Yeah, but it the prequels..."

This is why I'm staying away from everything that has to do with this garbage. I don't want any images or plot points in my mind when I read the real WATCHMEN in the future.

If I'm ever discussing the graphic novels and someone begins a sentence as quoted above, then I am out of that discussion of the the work.

Before Watchmen is not canon in my opinion and never will be. I refuse to let whatever watered down plots or images these "creators" trot out into my brain. If I don't see/read them, they won't infect my reading of the novel. Simple as that.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:50 pm 
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^You can still read them and accept them as non-canon.


How do you think us Star Wars fans cope?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:20 pm 
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WJK wrote:
How do you think us Star Wars fans cope?


We don't, hence why Star Wars is dead.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:51 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
WJK wrote:
How do you think us Star Wars fans cope?


We don't, hence why Star Wars is dead.


There may not be anymore films, and that tv show may be god awful,


but Star Wars still lives on through the rest of the EU (books, comics, video games, the same shit it's been living on since 1983). Some day GL will hopefully allow a new trilogy, or allow more shit to be made based on EU properties. I'd kill for a KOTOR miniseries, based off the games, and a tv show on the comics.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:18 pm 
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WJK wrote:
but Star Wars still lives on through the rest of the EU (books, comics, video games, the same shit it's been living on since 1983). Some day GL will hopefully allow a new trilogy, or allow more shit to be made based on EU properties. I'd kill for a KOTOR miniseries, based off the games, and a tv show on the comics.


*Puts hand on WJK's shoulder*

It's dead Erik, George Lucas killed it, we have to move on, all of us.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:55 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
WJK wrote:
but Star Wars still lives on through the rest of the EU (books, comics, video games, the same shit it's been living on since 1983). Some day GL will hopefully allow a new trilogy, or allow more shit to be made based on EU properties. I'd kill for a KOTOR miniseries, based off the games, and a tv show on the comics.


*Puts hand on WJK's shoulder*

It's dead Erik, George Lucas killed it, we have to move on, all of us.


Way to be a Debbie Downer, man. Can't you ever be optimistic?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:06 pm 
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WJK wrote:
Way to be a Debbie Downer, man. Can't you ever be optimistic?


Not as long as Lucas owns the carcass of our favorite sci-fi franchise.

Not really saying the EU stuff is bad, but among all the Sci-Fi franchises in recent years, it's pretty dissapointing how irrelevant Star Wars is right now, which makes me think one of these days the idea of a reboot could cross Hollywood's mind, and then Heaven & Hell would meet for armaggedon !

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:42 am 
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So are these going to be canon or non-canon? Or is it not decided?

Either way I cannot wait to read these. Especially if it has just a little bit of info on Hooded Justice. Cannot wait.

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 Post subject: Why wait?
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Here's "just a little bit of info on Hooded Justice" from back in the day, cobbled together from the official 80s RPG modules Who Watches the Watchmen? by Dan Greenburg, and the Watchmen Sourcebook and Taking out the Trash module by Ray Winninger:

Real name: Unknown (Possibly Rolf Muller)
Marital Status: Single ("Confirmed Bachelor")
Known Relatives: None (Possibly Henrik and Greta Muller his parents, and an unknown cousin.)
Group affiliation: Minutemen
Base Of Operations: New York
Height: 6'6" Weight: 270lbs
Eyes: Brown Hair: Unknown

The Hooded Justice was almost inhumanly strong and agile, able to beat multiple armed foes single-handedly.
Though the identity of The Hooded Justice was never openly revealed, it's hinted strongly to have been Rolf Muller.

Born in Kiel, Germany in the year 1917, Rolf Muller and his parents Henrik and Greta emigrated to America in 1919, eventually settling in Macon, Georgia.

The Muller's marriage was an unhappy one, as Greta was an alcoholic, and Henrik, disgusted by her habit, beat her frequently. In 1930, thirteen-year-old Rolf, already 6'2" and 210lbs, brutally beat his father in reatliation for his abuse. This was apparently the last straw for Henrik, who shortly afterward ran off with a younger woman.

In 1932, Rolf ran away from home and joined Sackson and Shanley's circus, where he was billed as "Rolf the European Powerhouse".

Shortly after joining, he appears to have begun an affair with Frank Burrows, a fellow circus performer. One Sackson and Shanley employee would describe an incident wherein Burrow and Muller spent hours in the wardrobe tent. Muller emerged, full of rage, seized a hot poker and furiously began to burn his arms and legs before collapsing in tears. After this, he wore a full body stocking when appearing in public, to cover the scars.

Muller apparently joined the Ku Klax Klan at some point prior to 1933, as he and Burrows, along with three other Klan members, were acquitted of the death of a young black man and his wife. The young man was killed by what investigators assumed to be an unknown weapon or tool - after all, what human could possibly be strong enough to break a man's neck with his bare hands?

In 1938, Muller left Sackon and Shanley's circus and joined the NYC Shriner's Circus, though he logged frequent absences over his career.

Sixteen days after he joined the Shriner's Circus, a young couple in Queens, New York were attacked by a gang of three men, armed with guns, who robbed them, physically assaulted the man, and threatened to rape the woman. Suddenly a mysterious figure with something over its face leapt down from the alleyway above, disarmed the gang members barehanded and beat them so badly that they were hospitalized, with one permanently losing the use of his legs.

One week later, the strange figure foiled a supermarket robbery, beating one of the robbers with such savagery that the others were only too happy to surrender. This time the description was more detailed, and the papers' headlines simply read: "Hooded Justice".

Hooded Justice's example inspired other costumed adventurers, and in 1939 two of them, Captain Metropolis and Silk Spectre, formed a group known as the Minutemen.

Hooded Justice apparently hooked up with Captain Metropolis shortly after the Minutemen formed. On the advice of the group's agent, Laurence Schexnayder, Silk Spectre (aka Sally Jupiter) pretended to be Justice's girlfriend - a ruse that worked so well it seems to have fooled most everyone else on the team.

In an interview in 1939, Justice made public statements supporting Hitler's Third Reich, earning the group some controversy, and himself the enmity of the Jewish Ursula Zandt, aka The Silhouette. Schexnayder was able to sweep this under the table, however:

"I for one applaud the events in Europe. The accounts you read in the press always miss the point. No one is talking about how Hitler managed to save his nation from the brink of economic collapse and restore dignity to his people... and no one is taling about the real vision - just the man behind that vision. Yes, of course people are dying. People *should* die. It's about time we exterminate the undisciplined and perverse from our own ranks instead of waiting around for the forces of the Almighty to come down and do it for us."

In 1940, when Sally Jupiter seemed to be taking a long time to rejoin the group after a meeting, Hooded Justice went to check up on her and walked in on the Comedian attempting to rape her. Livid, Justice beat the Comedian badly, only relenting when the Comedian made mocking allusion to Justice's sadomasochism, causing his shame to overcome his rage. After ordering the Comedian to leave, Justice coldly told the injured Sally to get up and cover herself.

Later that year, Justice broke his arm during a fight with the Screaming Skull and his thugs, and Muller mysteriously missed a month's worth of performances.

With the advent of World War II, three of the Minutemen (Captain Metropolis, Dollar Bill and Mothman) went to war. Hooded Justice, having no public identity, couldn't be drafted, and so stayed behind with the remaining members of the Minutemen, who fought domestic threats.

In 1949, the Minutemen disbanded, and Justice went back to solo work.

In 1954, when the HUAC called upon the country's superheroes to unmask before one of their representatives, Justice thoroughly refused to reveal his identity to anyone, and disappeared, never to be heard from again. Rolf Muller (whose East German cousin had been captured while attempting to bug the office of the American attache) disappeared, as well.

A body tentatively identified as that of Rolf Muller was found with a bullet in its head in 1955. The Comedian would later strongly imply that he was responsible (if so, he too apparently believed that Muller was the Hooded Justice).


Hooded Justice is a huge and extremely muscular man of indeterminate age.
His costume consists of a bright red cape and trousers, a black shirt and hood, and a noose around his neck, with ropes around his wrists and ankles. It has visual connections to the circus, KKK imagery, and bondage.

Hooded Justice was quiet and brutish (though not unintelligent), and vented his rage and sadistic tendencies on criminals, often crippling or killing them. He regarded criminals as an undisciplined and perverse lot, and despised them for their weaknesses (as Muller despised his parents for their own failings). His own addiction to sadomasochism thus seems to have been a deep source of shame.
Justice was openly racist, and at one point, went on record stating his approval of Hitler's Third Reich. This didn't do much for the Minutemen's popularity, and earned him the enmity of the Jewish Ursula Zandt, aka Silhouette.

His relationship with Captain Metropolis seems to have been rather rocky. As mentioned, Justice was heavily into S&M and often cheated on Metropolis with younger men who shared his tastes. The duo also had a bad habit of bickering in public like an old married couple, though they apparently managed to keep their relationship secret from everyone except Laurence Schexnayder and Sally Jupiter.

Although he wasn't, of course, romantically interested in the Silk Spectre, Justice seems to have at least been friendly with her. However, he was unwilling to touch the badly injured woman after the Comedian's attack, even to help her up, and acted rather coldly toward her. If he is Rolf Muller, this behavior could probably be explained by the whole situation being all too reminiscent of the incidents of abuse between his father and mother, and causing him to project the sheer rage he felt toward his father as a child upon the Comedian, and the disgust he felt toward his mother (for being a victim) upon the Silk Spectre.

After Justice beat the Comedian severely following his rape attempt, the pair shared a mutual hatred, which may well have led to the Comedian killing him in 1955.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:12 am 
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Wow, thank you so much for sharing all of that. I really appreciate it.

I'm very interested as to what happened to him. I think these prequels will cover a lot of information that was missing from the original novel and more. I'm really looking forward to these. They come out in June, right? I'll definitely be sure to get these every week.

I really am hoping it turns out that the Comedian didn't kill him. Maybe he's not even dead? Oh, and are these going to be considered canon or non-canon?

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:17 am 
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How canon they are is up to you, in my opinion, DC will probably consider them canon, but look at things like Star Wars and AVP, where some things are more canon than others, and different Contingencies consider different parts of the franchise not canon at all, I knew a guy on a forum once that considered action figures and their blurbs as canon with AVP.

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