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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:00 am 
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t3cii wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
All I hear is bla bla bloobedy bla.


Your maturity is awe inspiring...

Your mother is awe inspiring.


Case in point.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:35 am 
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Godziller66 wrote:
t3cii wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
All I hear is bla bla bloobedy bla.


Your maturity is awe inspiring...

Your mother is awe inspiring.


Case in point.

Image


I can never tell if you're doing that on purpose or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:03 pm 
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t3cii wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Image


I can never tell if you're doing that on purpose or not.

Hey, at least I don't try to rape women.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:54 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
t3cii wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Image


I can never tell if you're doing that on purpose or not.

Hey, at least I don't try to rape women.

...what are you implying? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:17 pm 
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NiteOwl wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
t3cii wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Image


I can never tell if you're doing that on purpose or not.

Hey, at least I don't try to rape women.

...what are you implying? :shock:


It's a Canadian thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:12 pm 
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WJK wrote:
NiteOwl wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
t3cii wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Image


I can never tell if you're doing that on purpose or not.

Hey, at least I don't try to rape women.

...what are you implying? :shock:


It's a Canadian thing.

Actually, that was a Comedian reference because of the "I can never tell" thing, but the idea that I may have been impying t3cii is a rapist is now hilarious to me.

More so that it was an accident more than anything else.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:18 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:00 am 
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mhm.... "accident"
mhm.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:53 am 
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Godziller66 wrote:
Incidentally, what the hell was the third symbol Captain Metropolis pulled out of the hat?

Metropolis pulls out Rorschach's symbol out of the hat when he's picking Dr. Manhatan's partner. The Doc uses his "magic powers" to change Rorschach's symbol to Silk Spectre, so he would be paired with her. Doesn't really make any sense...

1. Does Doc have these kinds of powers? To manipulate dry ink on a piece of paper to a different form? Maybe he does and I'm nitpicking.
2. And this is the big one. Why would Doc do this. He's a "puppet who sees the strings," but here he is specifically manipulating outcome. Isn't that the one thing Doc doesn't do?

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:26 am 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Incidentally, what the hell was the third symbol Captain Metropolis pulled out of the hat?

Metropolis pulls out Rorschach's symbol out of the hat when he's picking Dr. Manhatan's partner. The Doc uses his "magic powers" to change Rorschach's symbol to Silk Spectre, so he would be paired with her. Doesn't really make any sense...

1. Does Doc have these kinds of powers? To manipulate dry ink on a piece of paper to a different form? Maybe he does and I'm nitpicking.
2. And this is the big one. Why would Doc do this. He's a "puppet who sees the strings," but here he is specifically manipulating outcome. Isn't that the one thing Doc doesn't do?


haven't read the issue yet, but from what I can gather....

1. Of course he does.
2. Everything he does is pre-ordained, including things that seem like he is manipulating the outcome, he was always going to do everything he does, does he kill Rorschach to prevent Veidt's plan leaking? No, he kills Rorschach because killing Rorschach was what he was supposed to do at that point. There's nothing he could have done about it either way, same thing here, did he alter the symbol to ensure being partnered with Silk Spectre? No, he altered it because he was always going to alter it. that's what he means about being a puppet, he is no more in control of his actions than we are, he just knows what they are going to be before he does them.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:35 am 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Incidentally, what the hell was the third symbol Captain Metropolis pulled out of the hat?

Metropolis pulls out Rorschach's symbol out of the hat when he's picking Dr. Manhatan's partner. The Doc uses his "magic powers" to change Rorschach's symbol to Silk Spectre, so he would be paired with her. Doesn't really make any sense...

1. Does Doc have these kinds of powers? To manipulate dry ink on a piece of paper to a different form? Maybe he does and I'm nitpicking.
2. And this is the big one. Why would Doc do this. He's a "puppet who sees the strings," but here he is specifically manipulating outcome. Isn't that the one thing Doc doesn't do?

Is that what happened?

What the hell? I agree, I'm not sure that really makes sense and that makes me like this comic even less.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:29 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
DoomsdayClock wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Incidentally, what the hell was the third symbol Captain Metropolis pulled out of the hat?

Metropolis pulls out Rorschach's symbol out of the hat when he's picking Dr. Manhatan's partner. The Doc uses his "magic powers" to change Rorschach's symbol to Silk Spectre, so he would be paired with her. Doesn't really make any sense...

1. Does Doc have these kinds of powers? To manipulate dry ink on a piece of paper to a different form? Maybe he does and I'm nitpicking.
2. And this is the big one. Why would Doc do this. He's a "puppet who sees the strings," but here he is specifically manipulating outcome. Isn't that the one thing Doc doesn't do?

Is that what happened?

What the hell? I agree, I'm not sure that really makes sense and that makes me like this comic even less.


this made sense to me:

AvatarIII wrote:
1. Of course he does.
2. Everything he does is pre-ordained, including things that seem like he is manipulating the outcome, he was always going to do everything he does, does he kill Rorschach to prevent Veidt's plan leaking? No, he kills Rorschach because killing Rorschach was what he was supposed to do at that point. There's nothing he could have done about it either way, same thing here, did he alter the symbol to ensure being partnered with Silk Spectre? No, he altered it because he was always going to alter it. that's what he means about being a puppet, he is no more in control of his actions than we are, he just knows what they are going to be before he does them.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:39 pm 
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NiteOwl wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
DoomsdayClock wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Incidentally, what the hell was the third symbol Captain Metropolis pulled out of the hat?

Metropolis pulls out Rorschach's symbol out of the hat when he's picking Dr. Manhatan's partner. The Doc uses his "magic powers" to change Rorschach's symbol to Silk Spectre, so he would be paired with her. Doesn't really make any sense...

1. Does Doc have these kinds of powers? To manipulate dry ink on a piece of paper to a different form? Maybe he does and I'm nitpicking.
2. And this is the big one. Why would Doc do this. He's a "puppet who sees the strings," but here he is specifically manipulating outcome. Isn't that the one thing Doc doesn't do?

Is that what happened?

What the hell? I agree, I'm not sure that really makes sense and that makes me like this comic even less.


this made sense to me:

AvatarIII wrote:
1. Of course he does.
2. Everything he does is pre-ordained, including things that seem like he is manipulating the outcome, he was always going to do everything he does, does he kill Rorschach to prevent Veidt's plan leaking? No, he kills Rorschach because killing Rorschach was what he was supposed to do at that point. There's nothing he could have done about it either way, same thing here, did he alter the symbol to ensure being partnered with Silk Spectre? No, he altered it because he was always going to alter it. that's what he means about being a puppet, he is no more in control of his actions than we are, he just knows what they are going to be before he does them.

Well, that's just silly.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:41 pm 
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AvatarIII wrote:
2. Everything he does is pre-ordained, including things that seem like he is manipulating the outcome, he was always going to do everything he does, does he kill Rorschach to prevent Veidt's plan leaking? No, he kills Rorschach because killing Rorschach was what he was supposed to do at that point. There's nothing he could have done about it either way, same thing here, did he alter the symbol to ensure being partnered with Silk Spectre? No, he altered it because he was always going to alter it. that's what he means about being a puppet, he is no more in control of his actions than we are, he just knows what they are going to be before he does them.

The action just seems out of character to me. Dr. Manhattan does have free will. He uses the " I did it because I always did it" excuse as a cop out. This is emphasized in the scene where he doesn't stop Blake from killing the pregnant woman in Vietnam.

To me, a Doc that manipulates the paper to make SS his partner is a Doc that saves the pregnant woman. It feels like a contradiction to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:04 pm 
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I always thought that DM didn't save the pregnant Vietnamese woman because he didn't have a choice, it was preordained, saying he let Blake kill her on purpose makes him seem evil, he's not evil, he's just a victim of circumstance.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:05 pm 
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But he still has the chance to change it, he just chooses not to.


This makes me wonder if he knew that he would leave Earth. If he didn't know about the cancer scam, y'know?


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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:21 pm 
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AvatarIII wrote:
I always thought that DM didn't save the pregnant Vietnamese woman because he didn't have a choice, it was preordained, saying he let Blake kill her on purpose makes him seem evil, he's not evil, he's just a victim of circumstance.

I was under the impression that it's because he was more apathetic than actually caring.

In fact, the Comedian pretty much flat out states that in his ensuing big ol' speech.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
I always thought that DM didn't save the pregnant Vietnamese woman because he didn't have a choice, it was preordained, saying he let Blake kill her on purpose makes him seem evil, he's not evil, he's just a victim of circumstance.

I was under the impression that it's because he was more apathetic than actually caring.

In fact, the Comedian pretty much flat out states that in his ensuing big ol' speech.

He says it, but that doesn't mean its true.

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 Post subject: Re: Nite Owl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:21 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Incidentally, what the hell was the third symbol Captain Metropolis pulled out of the hat?

Metropolis pulls out Rorschach's symbol out of the hat when he's picking Dr. Manhatan's partner. The Doc uses his "magic powers" to change Rorschach's symbol to Silk Spectre, so he would be paired with her. Doesn't really make any sense...

1. Does Doc have these kinds of powers? To manipulate dry ink on a piece of paper to a different form? Maybe he does and I'm nitpicking.
2. And this is the big one. Why would Doc do this. He's a "puppet who sees the strings," but here he is specifically manipulating outcome. Isn't that the one thing Doc doesn't do?



Really? Wow.

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 Post subject: Totally Trippy Time
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:25 pm 
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WJK wrote:
But he still has the chance to change it, he just chooses not to.


This makes me wonder if he knew that he would leave Earth. If he didn't know about the cancer scam, y'know?

He didn't.
Two words: tachyon interference.

With Veidt having presumably prepared his plan well in advance of its climax and so having switched on his tachyon generators in good time, the resultant emissions not only cloud Jon's knowledge of future events - among them said cancer revelations and decamping to Mars - but also significantly disorientate him: "...muddling things up", as Jon himself goes on to comment.

And that unfortunate Vietnamese lady? Well, don't forget: "A live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles. Structurally, there is no discernable difference." Distant and cold... but true.


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