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Should the "Black Freighter" sub-plot be in the movie?
Yes, definately. Its integral to the narrative. 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Maybe, if it is done properly so as not to bog down the rest of the film. 46%  46%  [ 27 ]
No, it will slow down the main storyline and confuse audiences. 49%  49%  [ 29 ]
No, I didn't like it in the comic book and I don't want to see it in the movie. 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
What's the "Black Freighter" sub-plot? 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 59
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:32 pm 
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Do I think that the "Black Frieghter" sub-plot is integral to the book? Yes.

I'm not sure how it could be included in the film version without being distracting and confusing to the "average" viewer.

Case in point. One of my favorite novels is Moby Dick. Virtually every other chapter in this novel discuses the rigors and duties of life on the sea and contains nothing about the main storyline. As a novel, these chapters add flavor and depth to the tale. If cinematic versions of Moby Dick contained these chapters as scenes it would have choked the film.

I hope Snyder shoots it and puts it into the DVD version because I want to see it, just not in the theatrical release. If it does show up in theaters, maybe it should be shown in its entirety as a short before the movie.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:34 pm 
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The puritanical thing to say would be Movie version of Watchmen full stop? Screw that!

As a fan of the comic and movies in general who wants to see as faithful an adaptation as possible, I'd say Yeah, include it.

The problem then becomes - how? Snyder reckons his movie is for the fans and the quote goes something along the lines of Screw the teeny boppers! (a noble, if naive, sentiment IMO. I'm sure the producers and the studio with their $$$ invested in this don't feel quite the same). I just don't think the Black Freighter can cut it in a mainstream movie from a mainstream studio at present, if at all.

I'll admit to never really understanding the point in filming it as a standalone seperate DVD bonus entity. It's purpose is to exist both as part of and within the main narrative, a symbiotic relationship between the two. Without the metaphorical cross referencing and transition of both dialogue and illustration that goes on, the Marooned story is actually pretty mediocre. Dull, even. I can't see it working outside of its natural habitat. Perhaps some kind of DVD branching feature to insert it into the movie can be worked out; I doubt it. It's a comic, a static entity within the main story - I don't really need to see it turned into moving pictures like some kind of Tales From The Crypt or Creepshow affair and don't understand the desire to do so. Let it be.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:42 pm 
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I can't change my vote. Drat.

After thinking about it for a while, I would've voted on some variation of "no." I personally think that the exchanges between the two Bernies would've done all right without the Black Freighter narration, and the whole story would do just fine without the subplot. So it would lose some thematic punch? Fine, that's one layer gone out of a couple thousand.

I think Snyder has the right idea to film the story as a DVD extra. Better idea: Film the stories and release them on the official website as webisodes.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:53 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
I can't change my vote. Drat.

I believe I set up the poll so you could change your vote. Did you try to change it?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:57 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
Curiosity Inc. wrote:
I can't change my vote. Drat.

I believe I set up the poll so you could change your vote. Did you try to change it?

I tried... but I was doing it all wrong.

I was trying to change it through the moderator control panel. Turns out I just had to submit another vote. Silly me.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:06 am 
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I don't think we'll be seeing a lot of Bernie and Bernard, unfortunately. So their comments won't be adding much to the story.

I think Marooned could add a layer to the film if it were done as a comic being read by a kid with only bits and pieces... (a panel insert here and there as we see what the kid is reading...just enough to understand the kid is reading a pirate comic and get a sense of the story)... that comment on the visuals of the scenes in transition.

I think it must be embedded in the telling of Watchmen to work properly. Disconnected from that context, it becomes a rather plain story. It's depth comes from its counterpoint position within the comic. I don't see any point in filming Marooned as a movie or including it as a bonus feature on the DVD. The beauty of it lies in its integration with the main story.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:34 am 
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Vynson wrote:
I think it must be embedded in the telling of Watchmen to work properly. Disconnected from that context, it becomes a rather plain story. It's depth comes from its counterpoint position within the comic. I don't see any point in filming Marooned as a movie or including it as a bonus feature on the DVD. The beauty of it lies in its integration with the main story.

I would disagree. Certainly, it would lose a bit of dramatic and visual punch if it didn't help in the transitions (Chapter III, pg. 3, panel 9 to pg. 4, panel 1; for instance). Still, as CLINT FLICKER said in a thread on the Comic board:

CLINT FLICKER wrote:
It IS the story, in handy bite-sized pirate form.

Veidt is the guy on the raft heading toward damnation by becoming the very thing he set out to protect the innocent from, his rotting raft is the outcome of his plan as he achieves apparent success by riding on the backs of the death of others, the shark represents Rorschach sticking his nose into his plans with his investigation (Raw Shark?) and so on and so forth. It's all pretty deep.

Personally, I don't think that meaning would be lost if the story were separate from the main movie. The Black Freighter has nearly as many layers and themes as the Watchmen story itself. Both stories can stand on their own independently. They strengthen each other, but the movie doesn't have the luxury of doing that, due to time constraints.

Furthermore, I think that just throwing bits and pieces of the story into the movie wouldn't do TBF justice. Either put TBF in or don't.

ETA: When the DVD comes out, I'd like to see someone play TBF and Watchmen as a double feature. That would be fun.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:46 pm 
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Just to clarify - don't want to be quoted out of context. I also went on to say that, just like Vynson, I too don't really see the worth in extrapolating Marooned from the body of the main movie and running it as a what, five minute DVD extra on its own?

The Tales of the Black Freighter exists as an inanimate comic book within the context of the Watchmen world. To film it as a seperate entity and not as part of the main feature itself, well... to my way of thinking, you might as well go on and film the other inanimate works of facsimile literature that appear as well and so have a whole bunch of extras to fill a second bonus disc - moving image filmed versions of Under The Hood, Dr. Manhattan: Super-Powers and the Superpowers, Rorschach's NYPD file: The Animated Short, and Dreiberg's ornithological essay realised in stop-motion Claymation. If there's this slavish insistence to film the Freighter... then why not the rest for the sake of absolute completeness? Taken out of context, the Freighter wouldn't necessarily be any more successful a translation to film (especially as a standalone piece) than any of that inter-chapter supplementary material would be. It all simply wasn't designed, in either visual or literary terms, to work outside of the medium of Watchmen as the ultimate expression of comic book smarts.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:50 pm 
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I wouldn't EXPECT the Black Freighter storyline to make it in, but I'd like it to... just not at the expense of more important story elements. I'd be more concerned with Adrian's fate and whether his scheme is plausible in the film or not.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:54 am 
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The subplot with Black Freighter is somewhat of a thinker. This film will mainly attract fans of the comic, but they have demographic that'll be all over the film for the visual aspect. Unfortinuately, I think the story would only tag the film down a bit. One of those "You have be a mediocre fan to see how this fit in" type thangs'.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:11 am 
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No, it will slow down the main storyline and confuse audiences. <--- My vote


If handled properly, it might work. Maybe available on the DVD as an added feature to be threaded into the story. The documents contained at the ends of each chapter are even more important, in my opinion.

Thing is, the whole pirate thing was a bit of satire in itself as the genre was totally out of order when the book was written. Now, with the "successful" Disney ventures gaining audience acceptance after Spielberg's sorry Hook and Harlin's no-go Cutthroat Island it could possibly work.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:04 am 
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For me, it only makes sense to add Tales if they make Veidt live. I wouldn't mind a movie pushing 3 hours, so if's that's the case, I'd love to see it in the movie. Certainly love to see it on DVD, but only if Veidt lives.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:13 am 
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Since we have may new members since this thread had any activity, anyone new care to comment?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:06 pm 
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Now that it's been established that TBF won't be in the theatrical release, I imagine the stand-alone dvd, released the week after WATCHMEN hits cinemas, will have it's own load of marketing so fans and cinema-goers will know exactly what it's all about.

Later in 2009 we should be getting the "Absolute" dvd release. I'll be very surprised if we don't have the choice of viewing TBF on it's own or threaded into the main film as and when it should be.

According to the Empire feature, Under the Hood will also be on the same dvd as TBF and both *will* be included in the special edition WATCHMEN dvd :D

Tales of The Black Freighter/Under The Hood dvd confirmation.

With all that in mind it doesn't bother me that TBF will be cut from the theatrical release. As it stands, i'm planning on enjoying the WATCHMEN film as the cinematic experience it (thus far) promises to be, and am looking forward to the "Absolute" dvd release as the definitive version of the live action WATCHMEN.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:24 pm 
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i have heard somewhere that the black freighter is in the movie and it will be a cartoon

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:13 pm 
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omegaz92 wrote:
i have heard somewhere that the black freighter is in the movie and it will be a cartoon
The extended cut? Probably. The theatrical cut? Nuh-uh.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:20 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
omegaz92 wrote:
i have heard somewhere that the black freighter is in the movie and it will be a cartoon
The extended cut? Probably. The theatrical cut? Nuh-uh.


it will be in the movie

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/20 ... _blac.html

wait sry it is in the dvd and will be like japanese anime

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:27 pm 
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I voted that it will slow down the storyline and confuse the audience. I didn't understand the BF story and it relationship to the main story at all the first I read the GN and a lot of people will probably watch the movie once and they will probably not get it either therefor I think it's a good choice they're cutting it and focusing more on the main story. But I do like the fact that it will end up on DVD.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:16 pm 
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I agree that the Black Freighter can be hard to understand at first reading. And it is used in such a way that I cannot think a feasible way to replicate its effect on film. I think it is to some extent restricted to the comic medium. Moore uses it to play with the art-form and how it is read. He seems to love doing things that cannot be done outside of comics, case in point chapter 5 Fearful Symmetry is an entirely symmetrical chapter. This can't be accomplished in film or normal print. So I'm happy Black Freighter will not be "in" the movie, but I am happy we are getting it in some form. However, I do wonder why they went with Anime as their choice of style. If this is supposed to be connected to the 80s wouldn't it make more sense to have it animated in the style of Hannah-Barbara cartoons from back then like Herculoids or Superfriends?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:04 pm 
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"Maybe, if it is done properly so as not to bog down the rest of the film." I voted for that, but after thinking about it more, I think more along the lines of "No, it will slow down the main storyline and confuse audiences." I hope though that in the extended cut Zack's been talking about, it actually is weaved into the film.


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