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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm 
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CGA_ Soupdragon here. :roll:


Now back to the topic...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:30 pm 
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According to his Wikipedia entry, J.D. Morgan had his sights set on professional basketball for a long time... until an injury derailed that career.

Hurm.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:37 pm 
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As long as he's better at acting than michael jordan!!

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:40 pm 
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You never saw Space Jam! ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:50 pm 
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oh yes i did
*sobs*
i did see it :(
even billy west's voice work couldn't save it
(hiya t3cii!)

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:52 pm 
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LOL. Interesting interpretation. Personally, I'm just asking that he has more acting talent than Shaq (yes, I saw Kazaam. No, don't make me recount the experience).

I was thinking more about the physical aspect. How tall is J.D. Morgan, I wonder? Does he still have the ability to train like a professional athlete?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:25 pm 
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Since we're discussing their favorite subject and not Watchmen, our resident members of the The Jeff Oestrogen Brigade should be along annnnnnnnnny time now with the definitive answers to those very questions...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:05 pm 
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The Jeff Oestrogen Brigade??

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:12 pm 
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He was talking about me..AYBGerrardo... and yes CLINT, :D ..here I am...right on schedule. Glad to see you appreciate my estrogen and I. 8-)

Jeff is 6'2". He played Football and Basketball (Captain of the team) in High School, and has played Softball in an actors league. So physical training isn't new to him. As for whether or not he can bulk up enough to play Blake, I guess we'll find out if and when Zack releases pictures of the cast in costume.

Acting... well, I think he can. (But that could just be the estrogen talking.... not that testosterone has ever played a role in what actresses GUYS like, guys being above that kind of thing and all) However Jeff has two (three if you want to talk about Days of Wrath with Laurence Fishburne, which is about gang violence in LA) big budget movies coming out over the next couple of months that, romantic comedy or not, also stars some fairly heavy hitters in the movie world: Kathy Bates, Hillary Swank, Gerrard Butler, Uma Thurman and Colin Firth. That he was cast in these (non-kiddie movies, such as Space Jam was) and then straight to a movie like Watchmen says something about his abilities. What it says is up to you.

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Last edited by JDsgirlBev on Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:29 pm 
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heh okay i think i'm picking up some of the forum politics...
okay, so i take it you're notable as one of few girls on the forum??
and your famed for knowing everything??!
nice reply btw
oh and rachel weisz is awesome...
phwoar! ;)

yeah i bet snyder's seen all these unreleased films before casting...
e.g. the lookout (released now of course, was it released in the US after casting?)
for Goode.

heh i just realised that some puns are ready to be made with these surnames!
Moore, Goode, er,....Snide-r

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:31 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
... so i take it you're notable as one of few girls on the forum??
and your famed for knowing everything??!
nice reply btw
oh and rachel weisz is awesome...
phwoar! ;)


Thank you. :)
Yes, I'm one of the girls, I'm sure there are more of us here.... somewhere.
I know many things...but not everything (how boring THAT would be!). However on this board I'm seemingly one of the few who is well enough acquainted with Jeff to bring some of the background material of his career and person into this forum so that we can discuss his being cast as Blake.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:23 pm 
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i see. so, considering a girl who's read watchmen is rare, what do you think on the female representation in the book?
For example, what about Laurie who despises the Comedian who is going to be played by Jeff Dean Morgan!

Hazaa! I kept it on topic!

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:02 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
i see. so, considering a girl who's read watchmen is rare, what do you think on the female representation in the book?
For example, what about Laurie who despises the Comedian who is going to be played by Jeff Dean Morgan!

Hazaa! I kept it on topic!

In the most tenuous way possible. *sigh* Fine, I'll allow it. But I'll try to get even further back on topic.

I think that J.D. Morgan will have to work very hard to get the Comedian/Laurie relationship right. He needs to show some subconscious emotional bond with Malin Akerman, but without losing the Comedian's brash and womanizing edge. Remember, this is the same character that knowingly and unflinchingly gunned down a woman he impregnated.

These are two radically different actions, and J.D. Morgan will have to portray both of them convincingly, weaving them both into the same character. A pretty tall order.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:09 pm 
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OY, AYBG! Pick a complicated question, why don't you?

I certainly can't speak for all of us of the female persuasion, and I have never read any critical commentary or interviews that might kick start my own brain into critique of women in Watchmen, nor have I any idea of Alan Moore as a person, save what he shows me of himself in Watchmen, so this is off the top of my head.

Depending on the viewpoint you start with you could argue that he was being subtle, or that he was beating people over the head with a baseball bat with the way he depicted women. I think Moore was writing the women as he did to show the demeaning and objectifying of women in the comic book world, which is a reflection of the real world. At first glance the main female roles are caricatures. Sally is the floozy, Janey is the woman spurned, Laurie is the lost innocent. To see them that way though is to underestimate the complexity of their role.

After the attempted rape, Sally is STRONGLY urged not to report it. If Sally wants to be included in the 'power game', she has to play along. She does want to be included in this world where power, violence and sexuality goes hand in hand, so she complies, making her complicit and no longer innocent.

I'm not going to comment on Janey, because she doesn't appear, meaningfully, within the sphere of the Comedian.

Laurie may despise the Comedian after she learns of his attack on her mother, but before that, when she sees him through, literally and figuratively, 'innocent eyes', she sees something in him that perhaps no one else save Rorschach does: His loneliness, his sadness, and his pathetically flawed humanity. I think this is one of the pivotal scenes for Jeff to get right. There has to be some pretty delicate interaction between these two people. I know nothing of MA, but I do know Jeff's work, from 1995 to now, and I'm sure he will nail it. Watch Supernatural and how Jeff is with the two actors who portray his sons.

CLINT sees the Comedian as an "ultimately irredeemable cock-bag" who "wasn't drunkenly weeping for those projected victims in NYC... but out of a selfish realization that his own brutal raison d'être was due to come to an imminent end." Perhaps others see him the same way, but to do that is to miss that we are ALL cock-bags, selfish, and brutal.

I don't think the Comedian's 'drunken weeping' was simply because he was about to come to 'an imminent end'. He could, after all, simply have left New York and been safe somewhere else. Here's another scene that has the potential to be writhingly embarrassing to watch, it could be so blown over the top. But again, having seen Jeff's work in several movies and TV shows, among them Supernatural, I'm MORE that looking forward to seeing it.

It's also my belief that Moore himself didn't see Blake as 'irredeemable'. Chapter 2, page 19 second and third panels; Blake's funeral. Same chapter, pages 22 and 23. Those first two panels, and the timing of the flashes of light coming in the window when Blake is having his breakdown at Moloch's, are fraught with the symbols of forgiveness for the sinner who repents. The words "Henceforth, blessed are the dead which die in the Lord, even so saith the spirit, for they are rested from their labors." and the smiley face badge displayed over Blake's coffin and headstone points to the proposition that the mercy that only SINNERS (ie, everyone) needs is extended to Blake.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:44 am 
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the J.O.B. strikes again! nice answer!

RE: the Comedian...I agree he's not just a "cock-bag" (!)
I think Moore wants him to know a lot of what's going on better than anyone else...
no-one here has identified with the comedian that much on their first reading, right?
Nevertheless our own knowledge of history tells us that the Comedian saw the US's future, right? There's the infamous plan-burning incident and in 'Nam didn't he say that America would've really struggled if it weren't for the Dr?
I think Moore's trying to undermine stereotype....he's trying to say that just cos the Comedian is far from "the good guy" doesn't make him wrong, as those in who go see this in the cinema might think, but that doesn't make him "better" than any of the others (a mistake i make too often!)
As for redemption, perhaps the Comedian stays in NYC - weakened - because he is ready to die and refuses, even now, to change his viewpoint.
Y'know my two main heroes of the 20th Century are 1) Alan Moore (his ex-wife and he shared a girlfriend for experiments, just thought you'd like to know!) 2) Malcolm X (see avatar)
Recently I've been reading a lot on the latter (for history coursework, but i'm really enjoying it) and again and again it strikes me that he shares aspects of personality with the Comedian.
I'll finish this post with one little titbit and maybe post some more later.
James H Cone, Martin & Malcolm & America wrote:
White liberal hypocrisy was Malcolm’s favourite target. In a late December 1964 interview, he talked to the African-American journalist Claude Lewis about the importance of humour for keeping one’s sanity in a society which says one thing but does the opposite. “Anything that’s paradoxical has to have some humour in it or it’ll crack you up. You know that? You put hot water in a cold glass, it’ll crack. Because it’s a contrast, a paradox. And America is such a paradoxical society, hypocritically paradoxical, that if you don’t have some humour, you’ll crack up.” He burst into laughter as he talked.

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:45 am 
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My mention of Blake's 'imminent end' wasn't an allusion to his literal demise. In the context in which it was intended, it would have mattered not if Blake had fled The Big Apple; it was the end to his purpose and not his life I was referencing.

Quote:
It's also my belief that Moore himself didn't see Blake as 'irredeemable'. Chapter 2, page 19 second and third panels; Blake's funeral. Same chapter, pages 22 and 23. Those first two panels, and the timing of the flashes of light coming in the window when Blake is having his breakdown at Moloch's, are fraught with the symbols of forgiveness for the sinner who repents. The words "Henceforth, blessed are the dead which die in the Lord, even so saith the spirit, for they are rested from their labors." and the smiley face badge displayed over Blake's coffin and headstone points to the proposition that the mercy that only SINNERS (ie, everyone) needs is extended to Blake.

Pretty. But to expect others to buy into this explanation presupposes a universal belief in the concept of Christian forgiveness and mercy... furthermore, that when they created those panels you reference in evidence, that Moore and Gibbons actually believed themselves. Really...how likely is that? What's more likely, taking into account the tone of the remainder of Watchmen along with so many other examples spanning Moore's creative and essay writing career, his interviews and public speaking engagements, is that this was a typically deliberate satirical attack on the whole illusory hypocrisy that is so-called Christian forgiveness. A few drunken moments of reflection and pity don't exonerate a lifetime of callousness, regardless of the lighting conditions and the presence of nick-nacks depicting an historically ambiguous figure lashed to two lengths of wood in the room. Neither do flowery words spoken aloud from a book of devisive dogma created down the ages by mere men with an agenda to exert influence and control over others, recited over a hole in the ground. Live a cock-bag, die a cock-bag, be remembered and reviled as a cock-bag by the victims you leave behind in your wake, and become so much worm food. Fuck you and goodnight Eddie, sweet prince. Amen.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:14 pm 
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CLINT, I presuppose nothing. Far less do I presuppose universality of belief.
I am simply giving my own opinion, and providing examples of WHY I hold that opinion.

I find the level of vituperation in your posts... uncalled for, as I find your user name and the sneering tone of your comments on 'estrogen'. It has been commented on how few and far between women are in the Watchmen fandom. Not because we don't read and enjoy and WANT to comment, but because of the aggressiveness and condescending attitude SOME people display.

If anyone would care to have a civil discussion "Re: Casting Discussion: Jeffrey Dean Morgan as The Comedian", as I think this thread is called. I'm all for it.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:31 pm 
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Quote:
Not because we don't read and enjoy and WANT to comment...

Well, it all really very much comes down to exactly what it is you want to comment upon, doesn't it?
Quote:
If anyone would care to have a civil discussion "Re: Casting Discussion: Jeffrey Dean Morgan as The Comedian", as I think this thread is called. I'm all for it.

...which, very very few exceptions aside, has conspicuously been the sum total of your contribution to this forum to date. I'd dearly love to read your opinions and analysis on this fascinating twenty-one year old piece of work over and above the subject of just a single actor who has been chosen to play but one role in the movie but, on the basis of the evidence thus far presented, I am forced to assume that WATCHMEN fandom isn't really what you're about here. For wanting to so honorably defend your sex's track record in an undoubtedly male orientated (but by no means appropriately so) field, your efforts as an ambassador of sorts are sadly somewhat disappointing. On the subject of user names, it all really went kinda downhill on the expectation front with yours...

Simply my own opinion, you understand. You'll enjoy your continued time at this single thread without further response from me for some considerable time to come, I'm sure.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:35 pm 
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Clint, the internet is an anarchic utopia! Let Bev do as she likes...
her posts do not revolve around you...

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:05 pm 
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I don't think the question is whether or not Morgan will be able to develop the right kind of chemistry between Laurie and the Comedian, but how that relationship looks on screen. Will the Comedian be much more subdued when he sees his daughter, or will there just be a subtle change? Will Morgan play it as if the Comedian knows who Laurie really is, or will he be just as oblivious as she is? The relationship between the two is based on subtext, and I can't wait to see how that subtext is translated in the film.

(And for the record, I'm a girl, and I don't think my view on Watchmen is any different from the next male fan.)

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