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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:10 pm 
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I'm not sure if Rorschach was killed.

Maybe Manhattan sent Rorschach to another dimension and exploded a squirrel...

:?


Last edited by Gourmet on Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:13 pm 
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^or he transported Rorschach and swapped him for Laurie's period......ok, that's gross. Forget I said it :?

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Last edited by diego1235467 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:19 pm 
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Shazz wrote:
swedishskinjerr wrote:
He just saw a friend explode. What did you want him to do? Do an Irish jig?


His scream sounded funny to me for a second.. I'm sorry??xD


I actually agree with you, that's the initial feeling I got when I saw that scream. It seemed "funny" because there was something awkward or unexpected about the way Dan screamed. Almost as if it was the last thing in the world he was expecting, when the rest of us, even those who had not read the GN, knew it had to be coming. Funny as in you laugh at the acting, not because we enjoy seeing a beloved character die.


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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:24 pm 
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fruityfallout wrote:
swedishskinjerr wrote:
Also, did you guys know that JEH has a black belt in Kenpō, a form of Japanese martial arts, but couldn't demonstrate his fighting skills in that area fully due to the fact that Roschach's moves are sloppier and less measured? He did quite a few of his on-screen stunts.


Yeah, Rorschach's background is in boxing in the book. Rorschach generally calm and in control, but Boxing is less efficient and less controlled than martial arts.

For some reason, I really didn't like the way the snow "stopped" in that last scene. But that's just me. I also miss the way the book let all of the other characters assume he wandered out into the snow and died, but we found out about the "NOOOOOO!" almost a year ago and I'm all out of agnst about it.

EDIT: Oh, the mask is making the original "Hiroshima Lovers" blot right before he takes it off.

EDIT EDIT: Rorsach's guts make a smiley face. The hat falls in the direction of the drip.


Rorschach's guts make the "Hiroshima Lovers" blot.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:29 pm 
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^Yeah, I don't know where you got the smiley thing...

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:31 am 
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In that scene, during the part where Rorschach's hat flutters back to the ground beside the blood-blot, there is something visiable in the blot. What is it? Is it just guts, or could it be Rorschach's shoes? I can't tell.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:22 pm 
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As much as this scene leaves me breathless each time I see it, there's a tiny part of me that keeps pointing out how much Doc and Veidt are like the parents in a dysfunctional family, and Dan, Rorschach and Laurie are the ill-adjusted teenagers. :shock:
Whether it's Rorschach storming out only to see Dad Doc in the door, or it's impetuous Dan rushing into Mama Veidt's open arms, while Veidt calmly explains that grown-ups need to do what they need to do to keep things under control; while Laurie, ever the wall-flower, is just standing around.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:17 pm 
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whaelman wrote:
Shazz wrote:
swedishskinjerr wrote:
He just saw a friend explode. What did you want him to do? Do an Irish jig?


His scream sounded funny to me for a second.. I'm sorry??xD


I actually agree with you, that's the initial feeling I got when I saw that scream. It seemed "funny" because there was something awkward or unexpected about the way Dan screamed. Almost as if it was the last thing in the world he was expecting, when the rest of us, even those who had not read the GN, knew it had to be coming. Funny as in you laugh at the acting, not because we enjoy seeing a beloved character die.


YES. Thank you, that's what I meant. The dubbing was funny, not the situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:29 pm 
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My record is so far unbroken: whenever i get to the part in the novel or movie when Rorschach dies, i cry. it was either the first or second time seeing it in the theater that i was so messed up i just sat and sobbed while the credits rolled. :sigh: i'm such a creampuff. the first time i read the GN i actually had to put the book down and cry into my pillow (i was reading in bed).

just that image of Rorschach's bloody fedora in the snow... :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:00 pm 
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NewFrontiersman wrote:
As much as this scene leaves me breathless each time I see it, there's a tiny part of me that keeps pointing out how much Doc and Veidt are like the parents in a dysfunctional family, and Dan, Rorschach and Laurie are the ill-adjusted teenagers. :shock:
Whether it's Rorschach storming out only to see Dad Doc in the door, or it's impetuous Dan rushing into Mama Veidt's open arms, while Veidt calmly explains that grown-ups need to do what they need to do to keep things under control; while Laurie, ever the wall-flower, is just standing around.


Haha, I love that allegory so much! It's definitely like that in the film. Roschach storms out like a rebellious teenager while Adrian and Jon exchange looks...

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:57 pm 
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Lynx wrote:
NewFrontiersman wrote:
As much as this scene leaves me breathless each time I see it, there's a tiny part of me that keeps pointing out how much Doc and Veidt are like the parents in a dysfunctional family, and Dan, Rorschach and Laurie are the ill-adjusted teenagers. :shock:
Whether it's Rorschach storming out only to see Dad Doc in the door, or it's impetuous Dan rushing into Mama Veidt's open arms, while Veidt calmly explains that grown-ups need to do what they need to do to keep things under control; while Laurie, ever the wall-flower, is just standing around.


Haha, I love that allegory so much! It's definitely like that in the film. Roschach storms out like a rebellious teenager while Adrian and Jon exchange looks...


That just made me think back to the way Adrian keeps trying to turn back and look at Jon via the video screen when Jon and Laurie are arguing after she finds that Jon was working on the machine while they were sleeping together, and then sees that the argument is still going on and turns away again all "...aaaaaawkward..." It's like when you're arguing with one parent, and the other's sitting there with a book and trying not to take sides.


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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:11 pm 
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Morning Glory wrote:
My record is so far unbroken: whenever i get to the part in the novel or movie when Rorschach dies, i cry. it was either the first or second time seeing it in the theater that i was so messed up i just sat and sobbed while the credits rolled. :sigh: i'm such a creampuff. the first time i read the GN i actually had to put the book down and cry into my pillow (i was reading in bed).

just that image of Rorschach's bloody fedora in the snow... :cry:


Awwww. :( I wonder how Rorschach would feel if he knew that we cry for him. :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:20 pm 
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Raine Summerfly wrote:
Morning Glory wrote:
My record is so far unbroken: whenever i get to the part in the novel or movie when Rorschach dies, i cry. it was either the first or second time seeing it in the theater that i was so messed up i just sat and sobbed while the credits rolled. :sigh: i'm such a creampuff. the first time i read the GN i actually had to put the book down and cry into my pillow (i was reading in bed).

just that image of Rorschach's bloody fedora in the snow... :cry:


Awwww. :( I wonder how Rorschach would feel if he knew that we cry for him. :cry:


hurm.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:35 pm 
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Raine Summerfly wrote:
Morning Glory wrote:
My record is so far unbroken: whenever i get to the part in the novel or movie when Rorschach dies, i cry. it was either the first or second time seeing it in the theater that i was so messed up i just sat and sobbed while the credits rolled. :sigh: i'm such a creampuff. the first time i read the GN i actually had to put the book down and cry into my pillow (i was reading in bed).

just that image of Rorschach's bloody fedora in the snow... :cry:


Awwww. :( I wonder how Rorschach would feel if he knew that we cry for him. :cry:


He'd be relieved it wasn't just his enemies mourning his passing.

Don't feel bad, Morning Glory -- I choke up during the opening notes of "All Along the Watchtower", now! And everytime I see an icon featuring Rors' "What are you waiting for? Do it." face. :cry: Under this marshmallow exterior, apparently I have a heart made of pure...marshmallow. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:54 pm 
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ok, just watched the film, man i'm so annoyed. they're all banging on about justice, but they let a mass murderer live, whilst killing the only decent one, the others (sexy sable included) kinda going ooh it's great to be playing superheroes again.

There's a story where John Lennon, after spending a while with the rest of the Beatles and the Maharishi Yogi, stands up and says something along the lines of "screw this, i'm outta here." The Maharishi asked him why, to which Lennon replied "If you're so 'effin' cosmic, you'd know why I'm leaving!"

My point being, if Dr Manhattan was so bloody clever, couldn he figure out that the way to fix this without killing Rorschach would be to say, fine, go on your way, uncompromising loony, tell the world, who will stay united against the New threat, Oszymandias, providing evidence of his misleading detonations. instead he just kills some honest bloke. Stupid, weak ending to an otherwise clever film. and as the novel's the same, then that's lazy too, deciding to have an 'adult/non-hollywood' ending for the sake of it. ridiculous. what more of a hollywood ending could you have than world peace and the remaining watchmen all playing happy damn families. what a shame. Rorschach... marytr, unnecessarily so.


Last edited by englishdas on Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:59 pm 
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understanding of the film subject: 0% possible understanding of the source material: error

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:30 pm 
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ok, expert, hit me again, in english, cos i've obviously not switched my thinking cap on. cos what you didn't do, by putting up some fanboy reply, is answer my question. I've read and re-read everything i can find and not got an answer. Try not to pander to the obvious flaws in the script/novel's reasoning, and explain the dumbass way it got wound up. There's no way it makes sense.

EDIT: i'm sorry i appear to be a bit flippant in my last reply. it's a trait i never shook off, since school. Can you answer my question as to why i came up with a solution in 2 seconds, but in 20-odd years of the novel being written and the script being sorted, no one else did? that's what i meant.


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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:23 pm 
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englishdas wrote:
Can you answer my question as to why i came up with a solution in 2 seconds, but in 20-odd years of the novel being written and the script being sorted, no one else did? that's what i meant.

Amigo, you're talking about the moral center of the whole damn book. Trying to provide an answer would mean detailing an endless number of whys and wherefores in intimate detail. You could literally write whole essays about the moral ambiguity of this story.

Certainly, any one of us could provide detail about how you're misinterpreting this pivotal event in the story, but I think you'll find it far more efficient and worthwhile if you find the answer the same way the rest of us did: Figure it out yourself. Read the book and re-read it. Check out some other threads here in the forum. If you've got the time and money, flip through Watchmen and Philosophy.

At the very least, you should try playing Devil's Advocate. Walk through the story again and try to see things from Veidt's point of view.

Everything you need to understand the graphic novel is at your disposal. Go out and learn.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:17 am 
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Thank you for your reply, though it doesn't satisfy me. You probably didn't expect it to though, right? I don't see why I have to see it from Veidt's point of view. It's like saying, "hey, read Mein Kampf and you too can understand while gassing Jews kinda is necessary". I don't like giving bad guys my brain time. I can't see why the (final) Solution he engineered would provide global peace. Come on, everyone plays nice? Hookers still need dough and junkies still need a fix, and though they may be products of the society, someone will always exploit that. Everyone thinking Dr M is a baddie would not correct millennia of corruption.

I think it's a flawed story that promotes discussion and analysis, and I think I'm just gonna have to be happy with that. I will follow your advice though, and read Watchmen and Philosophy. May even report back. I've been racking my brains all week over this. My partner and the guys at work think I should drop it. I can't. Thanks Watchmen. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach's death
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:39 am 
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it's as simple as this:

The attack on New York City by a fifth-dimensional cephalopod (or squid in the common tongue) united the Earth against the threat of an alien attack, so superheroes were no longer needed. War ended, and peace came about between human beings. Rorschach however, was planning to return to America by some way, and tell everyone that Adrian Veidt was responsible for everything happening. If he had done so, several outcomes are possible which include either peace being disrupted and humanity thrown back into its savage nature, or nobody doing anything about it and simply not caring or believe because it came from Rorschach's mouth. That chance couldn't be taken, and since Rorschach never compromises (not even until the bloody end), it came to no other decision than to do away with him.

Not only that, but the Earth uniting against Adrian Veidt is a very, very bad thing for the worldwide economy. Considering that he is the richest man in the world, he can easily buy whatever he needs to defend himself.

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