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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:06 am 
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This list won't be very long, but as much as the DC improves over the TC, there still are some things that i feel weren't needed, or were better executed in the TC. At first i wanted to post this in the DC impressions thread, but i thought that perhaps it would be interesting to gather opinions on this topic in an separate thread.

If Curi or DoomsdayClock think there's no need for a separate thread on this, feel free to merge it with one of the others.

OK, these are the changes in the DC that i'm not too fond of:

- Is anyone else disappointed that with the DC the film lost the transition from Nixon in the war room saying "...humanity is in the hands of a higher authority than mine. Let's just hope he's on our side.", to Veidt, staring out of his window, looking at the WTC (and the Zeppelin aproaching it)?

Now the next thing we see after Nixon's line are the scientists trying to locate the Doc, no longer implying that Adrian is that higher authority. I appreciate Laurie's added subplot, the explanation of how the government knows where Jon is, and that Snyder apparently wanted Veidt's assassination attempt to happen at the halftime mark of the film (X), but i still thought it was such a great touch when the TC cut from Nixon's line to Adrian and i think it's a shame that Zack didn't try to preserve it in the DC.


- There's also that Rorschach vs. the cops scene in Blake's apartment. By now several users here have agreed that it seems unnecessary (though just as much if not more people liked the scene). I know, i know, the bit with the shooting is not to be taken too literally, and it's probably meant to introduce the element of Rorschach being some kind of Bogeyman for the police, it was also meant to introduce to establish that Rorschach is wanted by the police, but i think this is one instance in which Zack's self confessed love for Rorschach has gotten the better of him. I think he should have either left it as a deleted scene (thus preserving the transition from Rorschach looking at the Minutemen picture, to the same picture in Hollis' apartment. In fact, i had hopped the transition in the DC would be even more fluid than in the TC, and now we lost it completely), or just show the cops coming out of the elevator and then having us find out what happened on TV in Hollis apartment.

I've read Devin Faraci's rundown of the changes in the DC and while i wouldn't go as far as calling it the worst new scene (that goes to the Knot Tops at the newsstand, i was a bit baffled that he didn't have any comments about that one), i think the DC would have been better served without this scene. Other than that i strongly disagree with Devin about most of the added Rorschach bits being extraneous. Save for that apartment scene i think every line of added Rorschach footage has helped flesh out his character, giving us a deeper look into the abyss, so to speak.


- A change from the TC to the DC that i'm still on the fence about is the different placement of Jon's "I am not sure if I know what that means." during his flashback. In the DC he blows up the gangsters in Moloch's den and says the line a few seconds later, at the end of the lingering shot of blood and guts on the ceiling, while in the DC he says it just as he's about to blow them up. As i said, i'm still on the fence about this, on one hand i thought it was pretty effective the way it was in the TC, because his act of violence has some time to sink in before he says the line, on the other hand the timing of the line in the DC isn't that bad either, because looking from the perspective of an unsuspecting viewer you might think "What does he mean by that?", after which you'd go "Holy crap!".


- Another thing that i'm on the fence about is the way Kovacs is occasionally a bit too much front and center, which some of you have brought up before. This is something that was already noticeable in the TC, though it's more pronounced with the additional Kovacs footage in the DC. I guess it was never going to be as big a shock that the homeless man is Rorschach, as it was in the comic (at least for me), but i would have preferred if he would be more in the background, not pushed onto the viewer, as he is in some scenes. For example, showing him at the funeral is fine, but the way the camera is lingering on him for 1/2 a minute in the DC is a bit much. Now the scene when he walks past the restaurant during Dan and Laurie's date, this i would have liked to see more of. Kind of like in the comic, when Big Bernie says "I bet there is all kinda stuff we never notice" and you can see Kovacs in the corner of the background, going through his "mailbox". :)

While this isn't something that significantly spoils my enjoyment of the film, it just would have been great if it was done a bit more subtly (obviously not with all scenes, or it would be too hard to make the connection), so you could suddenly discover him in the corner of a frame after you've already seen the film a few times.


Any thoughts on the topic of things you liked better in the TC? :)

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Last edited by #1 defender on Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:44 am 
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I didn't like the cops vs. Rorschach part in Blake's apartment either. I also didn't like the added gore in the Veidt assassin scene and kidnap case scene.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:12 am 
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When Laurie meets up with Dr. Manhattan after the prison break, she brings up that he's on Mars. In the TC, they apparently did some ADR so that Laurie says "The TV said you were on Mars."

Well, in the Director's Cut, we clearly see government agents telling Laurie that Dr. Manhattan is on Mars. Yet they still didn't take out the aforementioned voice dub. That was just stupid.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Haven't seen directors cut yet. Europe, obviously.

I don't have much problems with these changes/additions as you present them here. If I had to pick some, it would be Lauries "saw it on TV" line and Dr. Manhattans "I am not sure if I know what that means" line. Small, stupid things like this annoy me. Perhaps they'll come here, read about it, and change it in the Ultimate Edition? I doubt it, though.

Though I may change my mind when I actually see it for my self, I don't have any problems with the camera lingering on Kovacs. After all, when I first read the comic, it didn't take me long to grow suspicious of him. Perhaps it's better this way. After all, one might argue that Snyder had to compensate for the faster pacing (this being a movie, as opposed to a comic, where you have all the time in the world).

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:51 pm 
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#1 defender wrote:
This list won't be very long, but as much as the DC improves over the TC, there still are some things that i feel weren't needed, or were better executed in the TC. At first i wanted to post this in the DC impressions thread, but i thought that perhaps it would be interesting to gather opinions on this topic in an separate thread.

If Curi or DoomsdayClock think there's no need for a separate thread on this, feel free to merge it with one of the others.

OK, these are the changes in the DC that i'm not too fond of:

- Is anyone else disappointed that with the DC the film lost the transition from Nixon in the war room saying "...humanity is in the hands of a higher authority than mine. Let's just hope he's on our side.", to Veidt, staring out of his window, looking at the WTC (and the Zeppelin aproaching it)?

YES!!! yes I was disappointed with that.

Now the next thing we see after Nixon's line are the scientists trying to locate the Doc, no longer implying that Adrian is that higher authority. I appreciate Laurie's added subplot, the explanation of how the government knows where Jon is, and that Snyder apparently wanted Veidt's assassination attempt to happen at the halftime mark of the film (X), but i still thought it was such a great touch when the TC cut from Nixon's line to Adrian and i think it's a shame that Zack didn't try to preserve it in the DC.


- There's also that Rorschach vs. the cops scene in Blake's apartment. By now several users here have agreed that it seems unnecessary (though just as much if not more people liked the scene). I know, i know, the bit with the shooting is not to be taken too literally, and it's probably meant to introduce the element of Rorschach being some kind of Bogeyman for the police, it was also meant to introduce to establish that Rorschach is wanted by the police, but i think this is one instance in which Zack's self confessed love for Rorschach has gotten the better of him. I think he should have either left it as a deleted scene (thus preserving the transition from Rorschach looking at the Minutemen picture, to the same picture in Hollis' apartment. In fact, i had hopped the transition in the DC would be even more fluid than in the TC, and now we lost it completely), or just show the cops coming out of the elevator and then having us find out what happened on TV in Hollis apartment.

Yeah. I wish the transition had been kept. Although I did like that this led to the reporter talking about Rorschach and clarifying who he was and that he violated the Keene Act. I also like the part where Rorschach is talking to Dan and says that the police officer won't need hospitalization because this shows that although Rorschach kills criminals he wouldn't just seriously hurt anyone. It did destroy the transition though... :cry:

I've read Devin Faraci's rundown of the changes in the DC and while i wouldn't go as far as calling it the worst new scene (that goes to the Knot Tops at the newsstand, i was a bit baffled that he didn't have any comments about that one), i think the DC would have been better served without this scene. Other than that i strongly disagree with Devin about most of the added Rorschach bits being extraneous. Save for that apartment scene i think every line of added Rorschach footage has helped flesh out his character, giving us a deeper look into the abyss, so to speak.


- A change from the TC to the DC that i'm still on the fence about is the different placement of Jon's "I am not sure if I know what that means." during his flashback. In the DC he blows up the gangsters in Moloch's den and says the line a few seconds later, at the end of the lingering shot of blood and guts on the ceiling, while in the DC he says it just as he's about to blow them up. As i said, i'm still on the fence about this, on one hand i thought it was pretty effective the way it was in the TC, because his act of violence has some time to sink in before he says the line, on the other hand the timing of the line in the DC isn't that bad either, because looking from the perspective of an unsuspecting viewer you might think "What does he mean by that?", after which you'd go "Holy crap!".

I'm not sure how I feel about that either. I think I like it more the way it originally was. Also I wonder what compelled Snyder to change that. I'm inclined to believe it had to do with the shock factor. When I saw it in the theater most people were too busy going, OH MY GOD!!!!, to hear that line. But since that's not really a problem now that I either watch it alone or with people that don't act out in surprise upon the first sight of mobster blower uppage, I kind of like it the TC way.

- Another thing that i'm on the fence about is the way Kovacs is occasionally a bit too much front and center, which some of you have brought up before. This is something that was already noticeable in the TC, though it's more pronounced with the additional Kovacs footage in the DC. I guess it was never going to be as big a shock that the homeless man is Rorschach, as it was in the comic (at least for me), but i would have preferred if he would be more in the background, not pushed onto the viewer, as he is in some scenes. For example, showing him at the funeral is fine, but the way the camera is lingering on him for 1/2 a minute in the DC is a bit much. Now the scene when he walks past the restaurant during Dan and Laurie's date, this i would have liked to see more of. Kind of like in the comic, when Big Bernie says "I bet there is all kinda stuff we never notice" and you can see Kovacs in the corner of the background, going through his "mailbox". :)

I'm actually fine with this. I don't really know if people would guess that its him or not. I'll have to ask my friend who saw it spoiler-free sometime if he knew that he was Rorschach.

While this isn't something that significantly spoils my enjoyment of the film, it just would have been great if it was done a bit more subtly (obviously not with all scenes, or it would be too hard to make the connection), so you could suddenly discover him in the corner of a frame after you've already seen the film a few times.


Any thoughts on the topic of things you liked better in the TC? :)

I also think that the added gore to the assassination attempt was stupid. His assistant should have just been shot in the chest like in the book and then Chess should have just missed the rest of the time because he's incompetent and then get hit or something.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:48 am 
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Veidt's assistant getting her hand shot off. The leg was always fine, because it follows the line "maybe we got off on the wrong foot." But the hand was totally pointless.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:01 am 
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I feel that although it ties into symmetry,Lee Iacocca getting shot right between the eyes and having his glasses break perfectly in half was kind of ridiculous. If that scene was edited so only Veidt's assistant gets shot in the leg then that scene wouldn't really bother me.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:08 am 
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I'm surprised that so many didn't like the assassination scene. It's one of my favourite scenes in the whole movie. I love that it is stylized, and the gore doesn't bother me either.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:55 am 
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Joacim wrote:
I'm surprised that so many didn't like the assassination scene. It's one of my favourite scenes in the whole movie. I love that it is stylized, and the gore doesn't bother me either.


For me it was just poorly executed. Just another example of the movie not living up to the book. The book has the great angle of Veidt swinging the (ashtray?) and knocking the assassin into the fountain. The shot of Veidt seen from behind swinging it baseball bat style looked much less dynamic.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:59 am 
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t3cii wrote:
Joacim wrote:
I'm surprised that so many didn't like the assassination scene. It's one of my favourite scenes in the whole movie. I love that it is stylized, and the gore doesn't bother me either.


For me it was just poorly executed. Just another example of the movie not living up to the book. The book has the great angle of Veidt swinging the (ashtray?) and knocking the assassin into the fountain. The shot of Veidt seen from behind swinging it baseball bat style looked much less dynamic.

I actually didn't mind that part. I think that looks really cool. I just don't like how the actual people being shot was handled.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:21 pm 
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"Mommy, is that Jesus?" Funny line, and it could have worked. But it was poorly executed. Felt like they put the scene on pause for a few seconds just to tell a joke. Felt very out of place.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:22 pm 
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Yeah, my only complaints, if any, are extended Comedian's apartment and extended assassination. Just have the assistant shot in the chest, or only in the leg, the rest is fine. And while it was neat to have more Rorschach, the transition was perfect, even if that's not how it happened in the graphic novel.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:25 pm 
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ROR-SHACK wrote:
"Mommy, is that Jesus?" Funny line, and it could have worked. But it was poorly executed. Felt like they put the scene on pause for a few seconds just to tell a joke. Felt very out of place.

:?

...Yeah, I agree.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:32 pm 
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I didn't mind the Rorschach VS the cops sequence. While I suppose I'd probably prefer Rorschach alone, I just can't put the weight of a scene with good atmosphere against a "match transition" that wasn't perfect to begin with.

I thought "Mommy is that Jesus" was hilarious. Which it was supposed to be. And I love the mother's response.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
ROR-SHACK wrote:
"Mommy, is that Jesus?" Funny line, and it could have worked. But it was poorly executed. Felt like they put the scene on pause for a few seconds just to tell a joke. Felt very out of place.

:?

...Yeah, I agree.

Well'i kinda liked it since its connected with "Hollis Mason? jesus is thet really you?" line,and the whole femine reliefe thing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:54 pm 
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When Rorschach goes to talk to Manhattan for the first time, due to the extension of the dialogue with the "possibly homosexual" line, Rorschach delivers his line late to Manhattan. However, they didn't change the shot, and if you look closely, you can still see Rorschach's mask moving slightly, saying the line at the same time he did in the Theatrical Cut, but of course the line is not there, so, he's just moving his mouth.
It kinda annoyed me.

Anyway, about Rorschach's identity, I don't understand how this was a shock to anyone reading the graphic novel. On the fourth page, the investigators are talking about Rorschach, hobo Kovacks walks by, and shivers, etc. I knew RIGHT AWAY that he was Rorschach. On my first read through. I seriously don't understand how that was not a GIGANTIC hint.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:27 pm 
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Another tweak I didn't like...

In the TC, Doc says "In it, he calls my arrival the dawn of the superhero." Then he blows up some villains. "... I am not sure I know what that means."

In the DC, Doc says "In it, he calls my arrival the dawn of the superhero. I am not sure I know what that means." Then he blows them up, and stares at them for a while. (That blank stare would have been a great place to include the line "The morality of my activities escapes me.")

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:20 pm 
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ROR-SHACK wrote:
Another tweak I didn't like...

In the TC, Doc says "In it, he calls my arrival the dawn of the superhero." Then he blows up some villains. "... I am not sure I know what that means."

In the DC, Doc says "In it, he calls my arrival the dawn of the superhero. I am not sure I know what that means." Then he blows them up, and stares at them for a while. (That blank stare would have been a great place to include the line "The morality of my activities escapes me.")

Yeah I agree. That or they should have just kept it how it was in the Theatrical cut. Small changes like these are why I'm actually going to rewatch the theatrical cut sometime in the near future.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:44 pm 
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In the TC, in Dan's kitchen, Rorschach says "Out of prison... so far."
In the DC, they cut out "so far." Any guess why?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:21 pm 
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ROR-SHACK wrote:
In the TC, in Dan's kitchen, Rorschach says "Out of prison... so far."
In the DC, they cut out "so far." Any guess why?

That's weird. I remember listening for that line while watching the Director's cut because I didn't remember if it was in the TC. It wasn't in it so I just assumed it wasn't in the theatrical version either. I wonder why they changed that.

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