WatchmenComicMovie.com Forum

When I first read the book, the first meaning I got from the blood-splattered smiley was the loss of innocence, which is a very important theme in the book. When people would ask me about the cover, I'd say "It's a simple representation of what the book does to superheroes." Since then, of course, I have come to see it has many meanings depending on how it's used. It's really quite astonishing. A very simple image, but it sums up an incredibly multi-layered in complex story very well.

I was just looking up some Snyder interviews on YouTube, and came across an interesting one. Listen to what he says about he over-the-top violence starting at the 1:12 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlVmyXcphz8

I also found one where he mentions "satire" at the 0:39 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSdHccdu9bA

Satan's Slut, you can still argue that Snyder did a bad job of getting his ideas across, and that he was unsuccessful in achieving his intentions. That is very open for debate. But there isn't really a dispute about what his intentions were, unless he's lying in these interviews.

In this one, he talks about people having false expectations, and seems to say he wants the audience to walk in with false expectations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sc8BOLxTf8 . Yeah, that didn't work out well.

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"Computer unnecessary."

I absolutely loved 99 Luftbalzoombas when it popped up in the movie. Loved it to bits. It was one of my favourite songs the year it came out (I was 18). The feeling of elation-with-a-background-of-dread that it evokes so well, coupled with a rush of nostalgia... it more effectively summoned the reality of the time period and how I felt back there and then than any other part of the film.

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...evidently chicken-town.

I like the idea of using "99 luftballoons" in the film, but the way they used it just didn't work for me. I think it could have worked if they showed more of Laurie driving to meet Dan, and used the song there. They could show wide shots of the streets, and some minor characters like the news vendor. Just setting up the climate.

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"Computer unnecessary."

You've used that point before - nearly word-for-word. Again, I would say - regardless of his intentions - it doesn't work. I could have lived with punishing, brutal violence - it's the laughably unrealistic violence I have a problem with.



And that's all he does do. He quite literally mentions the word "satire". And you could argue he's talking about the GN when he says it. He also calls the characters 'retired superheroes'.



Perhaps. The fact that he says the word "satire" is a million miles away from truly understanding that satire, or putting it on screen effectively.



I can't get that one to work. So I can't really comment except to agree that it seemingly backfired on him.

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"You Can't Help Smiling If You've Bitten Off Your Own Lips."

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Agree 100%. I don't think it works as contrast for reasons previously stated; it's not shocking - it's jarring in a bad way.

I love 'The Sound of Silence' and would quite happily listen to it being played over an hour long film of a dog puking in the street, so I am happy enough for it to be in the film. I will say, however, that despite my love of the song, it only works in the context of that scene if you listen with half an ear and don't think about the lyrics. Superficially it seems to work; but I do not think it means what the producers think it means!

However, ham-fisted it may be, but Snyder did a fucking good job of shoehorning it in there - (I think this only happens in the DC) the part of the song which goes "....I turned my collar to the cold and damp.." comes exactly as wee see Walter Kovacs turning his collar against the rain, IIRC! It was certainly close enough to make me do a big fat belly laugh of admiration and recognition.

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"You Can't Help Smiling If You've Bitten Off Your Own Lips."

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Because they are?


Tell us, Satan's Slut. What does it really mean?

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"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part.

"There's a cello in your house now."

No; they are outlawed vigilantes, or to use the term Alan Moore used in the GN 'Costumed Adventurers'. Spider-Man is a superhero; Rorschach, NiteOwl II, et al, are not. Moore deliberately avoided this label in the GN.

EDIT: But you already knew the answer - see a post you made in another thread:





I read an interview with Paul Simon (or it MAY have been a television interview) a long time ago where he talked about it being about a lack of communication in modern (1960) society. The 'people bowed and prayed to the neon god they'd made' line has obvious similarities to a certain Watchmen character, but the impact is lessened if you know that Paul Simon is referring to 'television'.

Like I said; superficially there is some nice similarity:

- Comedian's Funeral - Actually written because Paul Simon used to like sitting in the dark playing his guitar and composing.



Some nice parallels to Rorschach there - but given the significance of a 'neon god' being the TV, I am assuming (logically, I think) that the walker is perhaps seeing a TV in a shop window, and the glow of it splits the night more powerful than a streetlamp, suggesting it is intrusive and overpowering.



Ties in nicely with the 'Who Watches the Watchmen' graffiti, but what does it mean? I have never heard of Paul Simon's explanation of that lyric, so fuck knows!

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"You Can't Help Smiling If You've Bitten Off Your Own Lips."

http://thegq2.co.uk/forum/index.php

Uh, Sound of Silence was written because of JFK's assassination.

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Paul Simon wrote it in the aftermath of the JFK assassination, but it was not really about that event, but rather, as was stated above, about the lack of profound communication in modern society. As Paul Simon said when interviewed by Mary Gross for NPR:

"I think about songs that it's not just what the words say but what the melody says and what the sound says. My thinking is that if you don't have the right melody, it really doesn't matter what you have to say, people don't hear it. They only are available to hear when the sound entrances and makes people open to the thought. Really the key to 'The Sound Of Silence' is the simplicity of the melody and the words, which are youthful alienation. It's a young lyric, but not bad for a 21-year-old. It's not a sophisticated thought, but a thought that I gathered from some college reading material or something. It wasn't something that I was experiencing at some deep, profound level - nobody's listening to me, nobody's listening to anyone - it was a post-adolescent angst, but it had some level of truth to it and it resonated with millions of people. Largely because it had a simple and singable melody."

I thought it was an excellent choice for Watchmen and was thematically beautiful as used at Blake's funeral.

As for 99 Luftbalons, I like the song and appreciate having it be played as Dan and Laurie meet for dinner as it foreshadows Dan's nuclear dream and his impotence. But this is something that one gets on retrospect or on a second or third viewing... once one is long past the laughable placement of the song as one views the film for the first time. Like the comic, a lot of this film was made for the second, third, or more viewings. The trick though, is not to ruin the first viewing which for most precludes a second.

This thread makes me disappointed in humanity. Not nuclear weapons, not Reaganomics, this thread.

Aaaawww... here's a kleenex.

You ok?

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...evidently chicken-town.

That's why my eyebrows went up when I watched the interview earlier this week. I had not seen this interview prior to this discussion. And yet I still got the point. That means it did work. At least for me. He didn't have to say anything, because his art spoke for itself.



Very true. Ultimately the finished product is all that matters. He might say the film is a certain way in an interview, but that does not make it so. Likewise, a trailer might portray a film a certain way, but that does not make it so. Interviews and marketing count for nothing when evaluating the film. I'm just making the point that I was able to understand his intentions after seeing the film, and later had my interpretation confirmed by the artist himself. I actually unknowingly paraphrased him when typing up my interpretation.

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"Computer unnecessary."

I remember when I saw this film for the first time at a press screening I wasn't sure if I liked it or not. It sort of broadsided me. Snyder does lay it on thick, and, well, the theatrical cut rolls pretty quick from scene to scene so its a lot to drink in.

The second time I saw it, I literally enjoyed every moment. It really took that second viewing for my brain to register a lot of his choices.

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Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music - George Carlin

I'm just pissed off that he didn't make it clear if Deckard was a Replicant or not.

Wait, what are we talking about?

Saw it for the first time in a while today and I still like the film a great deal, but I think there is an amount of details that keep it from being the masterpiece it could have been (Although I don't know if it would be possible to make a masterpiece film out of Watchmen).

1. Malin Akerman-She is not terrible, for the most part, she does okay. But there were some moments where she needed to really deliver and she didn't.

2. The production design and cinematography feel gritty for the most part, but they don't feel completely real. Most of the time I felt I was watching a movie set representing grit, instead of actual grit.

3. I think the film could be smarter about its narrative. Vynson wrote a script for Watchmen once that removes Rorschach going to prison and I think that would have been an intelligent decision. I have to say that I would have cut out Hollis' murder, instead making him be a victim of the Jonergy (Or Squid) attack.

That said, I still will defend the Alley Fight Scene. I think it makes perfect sense because it is an expression of the characters' feelings in the moment as well as them expelling a lot of repressed energy.

I will also defend most of the fight choreography. However, I think that Snyder made the fights to be too stylized. The murder of The Comedian makes perfect sense in this way as Veidt and Blake are well-trained fighters, but then you have whooshing sounds and punching sound effects straight out of Kill Bill. It takes away a lot of the grit it should have. People point out that Snyder was just referencing and parodying superhero films here, but I think it makes a harsh contrast with the overall style and intention of the movie that doesn't quite bring it home as it should. And yes, the gore was excessive at times. Or at least it was in that little scene where Dr. Manhattan kills the mobsters.

I still like the film a lot and I do think its mostly a good film, but now I am beginning to question if it should be on my list of best films of 2009 and if it really is one of my favorite movies. A truly satisfying film shouldn't have me wondering how me or someone else could have made it better.

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My unofficial and offical work-> http://www.youtube.com/movieboyandco

To quote Feliciano, MASSIVE DISAGREEMENT ALERT! but to each their own.

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"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part.

"There's a cello in your house now."

I second this. It would kill the julius caesar reference.

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Say, Doc, did I ever tell you I'm the only metal that's liquid at room temperature?

Julius Caesar? We're talking Shakespeare, right?
I understand, but really, I think that in a movie you need to save as much time as possible and/or move around things in a way that the impact of the original story is left intact or as close as possible to the original. If there was something missing in the Theatrical and Director's Cuts of the movie is that there is hardly a heart to the climax, the opposite of the graphic novel. The Ultimate Cut remedied this by adding the Bernies. I would propose putting Hollis in there because it wouldn't take the focus away from the main characters and its a character that the audience is already a little emotionally invested in and could probably feel a punch in the gut when he is killed by the squid or jonergy (pick your poison).

However, that's just me. I understand the interest in keeping the Julius Caeser in there. The Hollis murder is one of my favorite scenes in the graphic novel and the film, but I don't think its absolutely primordial to the narrative when it comes to adapting it. It just goes to show the depth of the work and how much of the graphic novel itself means something to different people.

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The very harsh contrast is exactly what makes it work.

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"Computer unnecessary."

To each their own.

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My unofficial and offical work-> http://www.youtube.com/movieboyandco