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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:06 am 
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I think it is obvious that Alan Moore, with his backstory of the creation of the alien monster, has insinuated the intellectual class' unintentionally malvolent role in practically every massive social movements that ended in bad taste, including but not limited to communism, socialism and nazism, whose more pressing example is stated clearly in Paul Rahe's essay The Intellectual as Courtier.
http://chronicle.com/article/The-Intellectual-as-Courtier/126640/

Somehow it is also an evidence of his effort of trying to stuff too much underlying context into his plot, which is even beyond his ability to control, and making its ending unpleasantly awkward thus unfit to the cinematic version. I believe the alteration is required, because facing a broader audience you have to make the overall story less plausible and imagining an alien octopus is something corny in our early 21st century Sci-fi.

However the message is still there, despite significantly weakened. The attacks are now focusing only on those scientists helped buiding the doomsday machine. But even that change reflects the tide of our society: the scientists, replacing clergies and legislators, are now the most appealing and reliable individuals to the public, yet their cooperation with authority is tightened like never before. I feel a bit dissapointed that this message has sliped so many's eyes.


Last edited by ancylostomiasis on Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:46 am 
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So basically, you're arguing that the plot to destroy New York has some similarities with Nazism, communism, etc. because they were all created and supported by intellectuals? An interesting hypothesis.

ancylostomiasis wrote:
Somehow it is also an evidence of his effort of trying to stuff too much underlying context into his plot, which is even beyond his ability to control, and making its ending unpleasantly awkward thus unfit to the cinematic version.

How do you figure?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:43 am 
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1. Yes but no. All they've claimed is to achieve a greater good of many through the sacrifice of few. You can argue the goodness of the 'good', but their methodology coherent. The supports from intellectuals are the outcome, not the cause.

2. Which part?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:00 pm 
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ancylostomiasis wrote:
I believe the alteration is required, because facing a broader audience you have to make the overall story less plausible and imagining an alien octopus is something corny in our early 21st century Sci-fi.


Image

giant octopus is very plausible.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:29 pm 
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ancylostomiasis wrote:
Somehow it is also an evidence of his effort of trying to stuff too much underlying context into his plot, which is even beyond his ability to control, and making its ending unpleasantly awkward thus unfit to the cinematic version.


While the ending was unpleasent to me when I first read the comic, It is still a brilliant one, we're accostumed to different sorts of stories from comic books, and what Moore did, on the very first instance, was grabbing someone else's toys to smash them around.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:16 pm 
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ancylostomiasis wrote:
2. Which part?

ancylostomiasis wrote:
Somehow it is also an evidence of his effort of trying to stuff too much underlying context into his plot, which is even beyond his ability to control...

ancylostomiasis wrote:
...making its ending unpleasantly awkward thus unfit to the cinematic version.

Either of those two.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:02 am 
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WJK wrote:

Image

giant octopus is very plausible.


So powerful. :cry:

Curiosity Inc. wrote:
2. Which part?


The first part is, like you've said, hypothesis. The second part is explained within the rest of the passage.

Nevertheless, the ambition to 'hypocriticize' the entire intellectual population in a not-previously-seriously-taken art from itself is ground breaking.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:26 pm 
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An alien monster does not feel out of place in the world of superhero comics. It would have no relevance to superhero movies. It just wouldn't make sense for the Watchmen MOVIE.

I also buy Snyder's reasoning. If you're going to show a dead alien squid on screen, it at least needs some build-up and explanation. And that was time I'd rather have spent on other things.

Book: Veidt kills millions to save billions and brings peace based on a lie.
Movie: Veidt kills millions to save billions and brings peace based on a lie.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:40 am 
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ROR-SHACK wrote:
An alien monster does not feel out of place in the world of superhero comics. It would have no relevance to superhero movies. It just wouldn't make sense for the Watchmen MOVIE.

I also buy Snyder's reasoning. If you're going to show a dead alien squid on screen, it at least needs some build-up and explanation. And that was time I'd rather have spent on other things.

Book: Veidt kills millions to save billions and brings peace based on a lie.
Movie: Veidt kills millions to save billions and brings peace based on a lie.


That's a silly way to get your point across.
Book: Matt Murdock is a blind lawyer/vigilante that falls in love with an assassin.
Movie: Matt Murdock is a blind lawyer/vigilante that falls in love with an assassin.
Wow, Daredevil really was a great adaptation.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:31 am 
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Smutty wrote:
ROR-SHACK wrote:
An alien monster does not feel out of place in the world of superhero comics. It would have no relevance to superhero movies. It just wouldn't make sense for the Watchmen MOVIE.

I also buy Snyder's reasoning. If you're going to show a dead alien squid on screen, it at least needs some build-up and explanation. And that was time I'd rather have spent on other things.

Book: Veidt kills millions to save billions and brings peace based on a lie.
Movie: Veidt kills millions to save billions and brings peace based on a lie.


That's a silly way to get your point across.
Book: Matt Murdock is a blind lawyer/vigilante that falls in love with an assassin.
Movie: Matt Murdock is a blind lawyer/vigilante that falls in love with an assassin.
Wow, Daredevil really was a great adaptation.


i think Ror's point was that it served it's purpose well enough for the plot of the movie, and i agree, and as cool as it would have been to see the Squid, that's all it would have been, something to see, it wouldn't have affected the plot in any way, and it would only have confused people without sufficuent set up, which would have made the movie even longer.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:52 am 
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AvatarIII wrote:
Smutty wrote:
ROR-SHACK wrote:
An alien monster does not feel out of place in the world of superhero comics. It would have no relevance to superhero movies. It just wouldn't make sense for the Watchmen MOVIE.

I also buy Snyder's reasoning. If you're going to show a dead alien squid on screen, it at least needs some build-up and explanation. And that was time I'd rather have spent on other things.

Book: Veidt kills millions to save billions and brings peace based on a lie.
Movie: Veidt kills millions to save billions and brings peace based on a lie.


That's a silly way to get your point across.
Book: Matt Murdock is a blind lawyer/vigilante that falls in love with an assassin.
Movie: Matt Murdock is a blind lawyer/vigilante that falls in love with an assassin.
Wow, Daredevil really was a great adaptation.


i think Ror's point was that it served it's purpose well enough for the plot of the movie, and i agree, and as cool as it would have been to see the Squid, that's all it would have been, something to see, it wouldn't have affected the plot in any way, and it would only have confused people without sufficuent set up, which would have made the movie even longer.


Not really, they'd just have Adrian say it as he does in the book.. oh wait.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:07 am 
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WJK wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Smutty wrote:
ROR-SHACK wrote:
An alien monster does not feel out of place in the world of superhero comics. It would have no relevance to superhero movies. It just wouldn't make sense for the Watchmen MOVIE.

I also buy Snyder's reasoning. If you're going to show a dead alien squid on screen, it at least needs some build-up and explanation. And that was time I'd rather have spent on other things.

Book: Veidt kills millions to save billions and brings peace based on a lie.
Movie: Veidt kills millions to save billions and brings peace based on a lie.


That's a silly way to get your point across.
Book: Matt Murdock is a blind lawyer/vigilante that falls in love with an assassin.
Movie: Matt Murdock is a blind lawyer/vigilante that falls in love with an assassin.
Wow, Daredevil really was a great adaptation.


i think Ror's point was that it served it's purpose well enough for the plot of the movie, and i agree, and as cool as it would have been to see the Squid, that's all it would have been, something to see, it wouldn't have affected the plot in any way, and it would only have confused people without sufficuent set up, which would have made the movie even longer.


Not really, they'd just have Adrian say it as he does in the book.. oh wait.


i guess it could have been done without making the movie much longer, have the disappearences of scientists and artists mentioned in passing, same with the existence of psychics, i dunno, what we got was just all together more consise, everything tied into each other, there were no loose ends, nothing needed explaining, whereas the squid ending would have. i guess we'll never know for sure, until the remake.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:14 pm 
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Smutty wrote:
That's a silly way to get your point across.
Book: Matt Murdock is a blind lawyer/vigilante that falls in love with an assassin.
Movie: Matt Murdock is a blind lawyer/vigilante that falls in love with an assassin.
Wow, Daredevil really was a great adaptation.


Obviously there are other factors, but on the face of it cutting out the squid was not a problem. THAT is not what made the ending weak. Awkward editing and a lack of gore did that.

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