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Talk about the Watchmen comic book mini-series and film
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:29 pm 
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I'm sure a topic like this is a spit in the face to most of you here... so I'll gladly take it. :D

The movie did a few things different, and honestly they were for the better.

* Nigh Owl's suit - much more practical and realistic. Given the high-tech Owl Ship, it would make little sense for Dan to not spend the same amount of time on his costume.

* Adrian's plan - the angle with Dr. Manhattan is much more realistic and logical than building a giant squid. Peopel already knew Dr. Manhattan's abilities. They feared them in a way. Even in a straight up comparison, he is far more dangerous of an enemy compared to a mere alien squid.

* Comedian - I think the movie version is just done better. You see a side that you can't get in a comic book. Jeffrey Dean Morgan ads certain small personality traits that make the character feel more complete. Plus making him older is a good idea. A 22-year old trying to rape a 20-year old is more believable than a 16-year old teen.


Well, I think that's enough to start a fire... 8-) Let's have you all rise up and toot that a movie can never surpass the book in any way...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:26 am 
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watchman wrote:
I'm sure a topic like this is a spit in the face to most of you here... so I'll gladly take it. :D

The movie did a few things different, and honestly they were for the better.

* Nigh Owl's suit - much more practical and realistic. Given the high-tech Owl Ship, it would make little sense for Dan to not spend the same amount of time on his costume.

* Adrian's plan - the angle with Dr. Manhattan is much more realistic and logical than building a giant squid. People already knew Dr. Manhattan's abilities. They feared them in a way. Even in a straight up comparison, he is far more dangerous of an enemy compared to a mere alien squid.

* Comedian - I think the movie version is just done better. You see a side that you can't get in a comic book. Jeffrey Dean Morgan adds certain small personality traits that make the character feel more complete. Plus making him older is a good idea. A 22-year old trying to rape a 20-year old is more believable than a 16-year old teen.

Well, I think that's enough to start a fire... 8-) Let's have you all rise up and toot that a movie can never surpass the book in any way...


I hate to feed the troll, but meh.

* Clearly meant to reflect the tech-savvy side of Batman that Nite Owl is based on. However, the idea in the comic is showing that while Dan Dreiberg is a mechanical genius, he is socially awkward (and thus impotent unless wearing his cheesy-looking costume, which is still just as cheesy in the movie). Not to mention, most of us like/accept his costume change.

* The cancer frame was only a small part in Veidt's plan. Sure, it seemed somewhat logical to frame him for attacking the world in anger, but ultimately fails in comparison to the comic's ending. Why would Dr. Manhattan attack the Earth just because they believed he is radioactive and gave several people cancer? The idea of some being from another planet randomly attacking New York City is a lot scarier than something you already know. Come to think of it, did you even read the same Watchmen we all did?

* There was plenty of the Comedian from the comic that didn't make it into the film that made him a lot better. Sure, maybe visually he was an improvement, but in terms of character development the comic beats out the film. I don't know where you get that age span thing from, but what are you talking about? Rape is rape, no matter what age. Do you know what a pedophile is?

Also, that last statement, about a movie never surpassing a book, you're quite wrong about that. I can only think of Fight Club and 300 for example right now.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:33 pm 
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WJK wrote:
The cancer frame was only a small part in Veidt's plan. Sure, it seemed somewhat logical to frame him for attacking the world in anger, but ultimately fails in comparison to the comic's ending. Why would Dr. Manhattan attack the Earth just because they believed he is radioactive and gave several people cancer? The idea of some being from another planet randomly attacking New York City is a lot scarier than something you already know. Come to think of it, did you even read the same Watchmen we all did?


And that's without mentioning Moore's implications that Veidt was a psychopath, and that his plan was a twisted, bizarre recreation of Alexander's campaigns.

In that same line of thought, the squid is much more effective in representing the message that humanity does not destroy itself when it is destroying something else, in this case, "the alien invaders". At the same time, it also says something about the ideas that support both violence and war, that they are as much of a hoax as Veidt's plan.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:35 am 
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WJK wrote:
* Clearly meant to reflect the tech-savvy side of Batman that Nite Owl is based on. However, the idea in the comic is showing that while Dan Dreiberg is a mechanical genius, he is socially awkward (and thus impotent unless wearing his cheesy-looking costume, which is still just as cheesy in the movie). Not to mention, most of us like/accept his costume change.


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But yeah, WJK makes a valid point about how most of us like the change. The same reason Batman isn't shown wearing greay and black in the movies

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:58 am 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
WJK wrote:
* Clearly meant to reflect the tech-savvy side of Batman that Nite Owl is based on. However, the idea in the comic is showing that while Dan Dreiberg is a mechanical genius, he is socially awkward (and thus impotent unless wearing his cheesy-looking costume, which is still just as cheesy in the movie). Not to mention, most of us like/accept his costume change.


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But yeah, WJK makes a valid point about how most of us like the change. The same reason Batman isn't shown wearing greay and black in the movies


Dude, you're THE ONLY one I know that always makes the connection to Blue Beetle :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:01 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
WJK wrote:
* Clearly meant to reflect the tech-savvy side of Batman that Nite Owl is based on. However, the idea in the comic is showing that while Dan Dreiberg is a mechanical genius, he is socially awkward (and thus impotent unless wearing his cheesy-looking costume, which is still just as cheesy in the movie). Not to mention, most of us like/accept his costume change.


Image

But yeah, WJK makes a valid point about how most of us like the change. The same reason Batman isn't shown wearing greay and black in the movies


Right, when I actually read some Blue Beetle stuff, I'll be sure to credit him more appropriately.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:43 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
WJK wrote:
* Clearly meant to reflect the tech-savvy side of Batman that Nite Owl is based on. However, the idea in the comic is showing that while Dan Dreiberg is a mechanical genius, he is socially awkward (and thus impotent unless wearing his cheesy-looking costume, which is still just as cheesy in the movie). Not to mention, most of us like/accept his costume change.


Image

But yeah, WJK makes a valid point about how most of us like the change. The same reason Batman isn't shown wearing greay and black in the movies


Dude, you're THE ONLY one I know that always makes the connection to Blue Beetle :lol:

I really hate to agree with Brooklyn, but it's a fair comparison considering the Blue Beetle has tons of tech and Nite Owl is, y'know, based on him.

But they most likely had Batman in mind too when creating the character.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:12 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
I really hate to agree with Brooklyn, but it's a fair comparison considering the Blue Beetle has tons of tech and Nite Owl is, y'know, based on him.

But they most likely had Batman in mind too when creating the character.


Aw c'mon, Brooklyn can be right too, almost never mind you, but he still can be :)

Although I have to admit that I've only heard him making the connection because I haven't heard Alan Moore saying it out loud like with the other characters, but then again, he never exactly said Nite-Owl and Rorschach were interpretations of Batman either, that doesn't mean that the connections aren't there, as we all know.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:07 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Dude, you're THE ONLY one I know that always makes the connection to Blue Beetle :lol:


Actually... Alan Moore made the connection first...

Go look at Ted Kords beetle Ship

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nd here's another fan's edit

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hmmmm...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:53 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
I really hate to agree with Brooklyn, but it's a fair comparison considering the Blue Beetle has tons of tech and Nite Owl is, y'know, based on him.

But they most likely had Batman in mind too when creating the character.


Aw c'mon, Brooklyn can be right too, almost never mind you, but he still can be :)

Although I have to admit that I've only heard him making the connection because I haven't heard Alan Moore saying it out loud like with the other characters, but then again, he never exactly said Nite-Owl and Rorschach were interpretations of Batman either, that doesn't mean that the connections aren't there, as we all know.


Moore and DC have both said MANY times that all of the characters in the story were going to be DC's recently accquired Charlton characters, but once they saw how radical Moore's ideas were they told him to change the characters to original ones instead.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:08 am 
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Smutty wrote:
Moore and DC have both said MANY times that all of the characters in the story were going to be DC's recently accquired Charlton characters, but once they saw how radical Moore's ideas were they told him to change the characters to original ones instead.


that doesn't count though... because I'm always wrong

But honestly though, other than basic archetype Blue Beetlw is nowhere to be found in Dan, Dan is a sad sack and Ted is a jokster.

Found this, btw

On the Wikipedia page for Ted Kord somebody wrote:
Daniel Dreiberg (the second Nite Owl) is a stand-in for Ted Kord and appears in DC Comics' Watchmen maxi-series, created by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, whose protagonists are analogues of the Charlton Comics characters acquired by DC. The original Charlton characters were to appear in the series; however, due to DC's plans to use the characters in the mainstream DC Universe, analogues were created.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:53 am 
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The ending, definitely.

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3971&hilit=

Thought the OP might be interested.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:19 am 
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The movie ending was better than the comic book. Hybrid mutated octopus brain teleported to Times Square? A hard pill to swallow. It makes sense to outcast Jon- after all, he is done with humanity and this galaxy for that matter. The movie dovetailed it well. I was surprised to see that beast in the motion comic- I always thought (haven't read it in a quarter century) that Ozzy nuked all major cities anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:46 am 
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jmpet wrote:
The movie ending was better than the comic book. Hybrid mutated octopus brain teleported to Times Square? A hard pill to swallow. It makes sense to outcast Jon- after all, he is done with humanity and this galaxy for that matter. The movie dovetailed it well. I was surprised to see that beast in the motion comic- I always thought (haven't read it in a quarter century) that Ozzy nuked all major cities anyway.


Veidt nuking all major cities wouldn't make sense since he was trying to prevent that from happening in the first place.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:37 pm 
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t3cii wrote:
Veidt nuking all major cities wouldn't make sense since he was trying to prevent that from happening in the first place.


He was trying to prevent the absolute end of the world by nuking all the major cities, it does make sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:27 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
t3cii wrote:
Veidt nuking all major cities wouldn't make sense since he was trying to prevent that from happening in the first place.


He was trying to prevent the absolute end of the world by nuking all the major cities, it does make sense.


Wouldn't there have been large scale fall out? In the book he destroys one city, that makes a message. the movie having him take out cities all over the place is getting back to the American philosophy in Vietnam "We had to destroy the village to save it"

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:30 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Wouldn't there have been large scale fall out? In the book he destroys one city, that makes a message. the movie having him take out cities all over the place is getting back to the American philosophy in Vietnam "We had to destroy the village to save it"


Your point ?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:09 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Wouldn't there have been large scale fall out? In the book he destroys one city, that makes a message. the movie having him take out cities all over the place is getting back to the American philosophy in Vietnam "We had to destroy the village to save it"


Your point ?


I'm saying that in the movie he was responsible for the very thing he was trying to prevent. Bringing it back to Vietnam, the american soldiers that burnt villages were instructed to because that way the Viet cong couldn't retake the village, so to them they saved the village, but in reality they destroyed the village themselves so it didn't matter if the VC or NVA came back... the damage was done.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:48 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I'm saying that in the movie he was responsible for the very thing he was trying to prevent. Bringing it back to Vietnam, the american soldiers that burnt villages were instructed to because that way the Viet cong couldn't retake the village, so to them they saved the village, but in reality they destroyed the village themselves so it didn't matter if the VC or NVA came back... the damage was done.


How is that any different from what he did in the comic ? He killed millions and yet he claimed to save much more than that, the only difference with the movie is that he just killed more people to save more.

Besides, that ending had to be done if Doctor Manhattan was to be the new target, the new enemy, if Veidt destroyed New York only and blamed it on Doctor Manhattan, then everybody would've thought Doctor Manhattan just turned on the US government, the way Snyder did the ending was exactly as it had to be done and carried almost the same meaning as in the comic.

EDIT: There AYB, you happy now ?

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Last edited by feliciano182 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:51 pm 
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That post is really fucking confusing when you read Manhattan as another name for New York...

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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