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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Point of interest: In the comics, Veidt kept the development of his ultimate weapon covert. Nobody knew that he was building the alien, and nothing could be traced back to him.

In the movie, Veidt was very explicit about his energy project. His company was directly involved with it, and he even refers to it in the interview at the start of the film. Seems to me that a few months down the line, some investors or auditors would want to know where that energy project went. And if it did eventually surface, someone would notice that the energy signature bears an uncanny resemblance to that of Dr. Manhattan, and that would lead to a whole mess of unwanted questions.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:42 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Point of interest: In the comics, Veidt kept the development of his ultimate weapon covert. Nobody knew that he was building the alien, and nothing could be traced back to him.

In the movie, Veidt was very explicit about his energy project. His company was directly involved with it, and he even refers to it in the interview at the start of the film. Seems to me that a few months down the line, some investors or auditors would want to know where that energy project went.

Don't you remember the electric car at the end?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:24 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Point of interest: In the comics, Veidt kept the development of his ultimate weapon covert. Nobody knew that he was building the alien, and nothing could be traced back to him.

In the movie, Veidt was very explicit about his energy project. His company was directly involved with it, and he even refers to it in the interview at the start of the film. Seems to me that a few months down the line, some investors or auditors would want to know where that energy project went.

Don't you remember the electric car at the end?


Sure enough, with Veidt Enterprises funding the rebuilding of NYC, nobody would question the project. Also, the electric car thing.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:55 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
How is that any different from what he did in the comic ?


Destroying one city and destroying around 15? There is a huge difference, consider for starters the cities are of varying sizes so many more lives were lost, and also in the movie the city was demolished leaving massive craters, but in the book the buildings were largely unaffected remember one reporter calls it Hiroshima with buildings) there was much more destruction and loss of life in the Movie than in the book. To continue beating the dead horse of my vietnam analogy, in the book one hut is burned, in the movie the entire vllage is burned.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
How is that any different from what he did in the comic ?


Destroying one city and destroying around 15? There is a huge difference, consider for starters the cities are of varying sizes so many more lives were lost, and also in the movie the city was demolished leaving massive craters, but in the book the buildings were largely unaffected remember one reporter calls it Hiroshima with buildings) there was much more destruction and loss of life in the Movie than in the book. To continue beating the dead horse of my vietnam analogy, in the book one hut is burned, in the movie the entire vllage is burned.


The village wasn't burned down, in the comic one hut was destroyed, in the movie a lot more were destroyed, yet the village still stands, it hasn't been destroyed, same applies for the world, sure, there were greater losses apart from New York, but for Snyder's plan to replace the aliens with Doctor Manhattan, it was absolutely necessary that Veidt made Doctor Manhattan a threat to the entire world, not just to the US.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:07 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
The village wasn't burned down, in the comic one hut was destroyed, in the movie a lot more were destroyed, yet the village still stands, it hasn't been destroyed, same applies for the world, sure, there were greater losses apart from New York, but for Snyder's plan to replace the aliens with Doctor Manhattan, it was absolutely necessary that Veidt made Doctor Manhattan a threat to the entire world, not just to the US.


The same effect could have been achieved by having the living H-Bomb of America turn against said country. I don't hate Snyder for replacing the squid with the S.Q.U.I.D. but, I do have a problem with him attacking multiple cities... the destruction is just too widespread. The book had a targeted strike that Adrian could have argued it was one city to save all the cities of the world, but in the movie there is too wide of an attack for Adrian to argue it was targetted, with so many attacks and no set explanation right away I feel like the odds of countries launching counter strikes would be much higher.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:20 am 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
The same effect could have been achieved by having the living H-Bomb of America turn against said country.


No, because the world could still misconstrue the attack as planned by the US.

Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I don't hate Snyder for replacing the squid with the S.Q.U.I.D. but, I do have a problem with him attacking multiple cities... the destruction is just too widespread. The book had a targeted strike that Adrian could have argued it was one city to save all the cities of the world, but in the movie there is too wide of an attack for Adrian to argue it was targetted, with so many attacks and no set explanation right away I feel like the odds of countries launching counter strikes would be much higher.


Are you going for the gold in mental gymnastics ?

It's simple:

In the book, it was enough to have New York destroyed, because "the enemy" is a gigantic, monstrous squid, it's "an alien", it's a threat everyone can acknowledge equally.

In the movie, multiple cities had to be destroyed, because "the enemy" was the symbol of The US, that changes the playing ground completely, if only New York is attacked, then the russians say "Yes ! They lost their weapon !" and the war continues, if only *insert favorite foreign capital* is attacked, then The US loses credibility, becomes a target, and war continues.

But if the whole world is under attack at the same time, then people believe Manhattan fucking lost it and is raging against the planet, if the attack has no preference nor "taste" for nationalities, then the target is the group that encompasses all nationalities, the attack is against humanity.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:29 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
No, because the world could still misconstrue the attack as planned by the US.


So... america would attack itself... because.........?

feliciano182 wrote:
But if the whole world is under attack at the same time, then people believe Manhattan fucking lost it and is raging against the planet, if the attack has no preference nor "taste" for nationalities, then the target is the group that encompasses all nationalities, the attack is against humanity.


I kind of see what you're saying, but I still feel that movie Adrian was much less sympathy worthy.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 am 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
So... america would attack itself... because.........?


I misread that, still, the answer is still in my previous post, if Veidt detonated one of the devices in New York, then the world would simply think Manhattan turned on the US, Manhattan wouldn't be perceived as an enemy to the world, only to the US, and thus, war would continue.

Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I kind of see what you're saying, but I still feel that movie Adrian was much less sympathy worthy.


I think when you're killing in such numbers, it stops to matter if you kill one million or ten million.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:24 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
So... america would attack itself... because.........?


I misread that, still, the answer is still in my previous post, if Veidt detonated one of the devices in New York, then the world would simply think Manhattan turned on the US, Manhattan wouldn't be perceived as an enemy to the world, only to the US, and thus, war would continue.

Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I kind of see what you're saying, but I still feel that movie Adrian was much less sympathy worthy.


I think when you're killing in such numbers, it stops to matter if you kill one million or ten million.


I agree, the attacks needed to be widespread,

what I don't agree with is your estimate of the numbers killed, in the movie each crater was only a couple of city blocks wide, I doubt each attack killed more than say 50,000 people.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:20 am 
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AvatarIII wrote:
what I don't agree with is your estimate of the numbers killed, in the movie each crater was only a couple of city blocks wide, I doubt each attack killed more than say 50,000 people.


Hmmmmmmm, for some reason I had imagined each attack had piled the casualties up to the millions.

Anyways, I still feel the same way about the issue, if "X" person killed fifty thousand people and "Y" killed a million, I really wouldn't go out of my way to say "Y" is the "more evil" one :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:08 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
what I don't agree with is your estimate of the numbers killed, in the movie each crater was only a couple of city blocks wide, I doubt each attack killed more than say 50,000 people.


Hmmmmmmm, for some reason I had imagined each attack had piled the casualties up to the millions.

Anyways, I still feel the same way about the issue, if "X" person killed fifty thousand people and "Y" killed a million, I really wouldn't go out of my way to say "Y" is the "more evil" one :lol:


you might be right, Manhattan is pretty densely populated, but I really don't think a crater the size we see would have killed that many people, it was only a kind of semi residential district, and there is a clear cut off where the destruction ends, and Manhattan's TOTAL population today is only 1.6 million. population density is 70k per square mile, if the crater was 1 mile in diameter, that would only be 55,000 people, assuming that area had exactly average population density. and that population then was similar to today.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:55 am 
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AvatarIII wrote:
you might be right, Manhattan is pretty densely populated, but I really don't think a crater the size we see would have killed that many people, it was only a kind of semi residential district, and there is a clear cut off where the destruction ends, and Manhattan's TOTAL population today is only 1.6 million. population density is 70k per square mile, if the crater was 1 mile in diameter, that would only be 55,000 people, assuming that area had exactly average population density. and that population then was similar to today.


You're either a civil engineer or you just love doing genocide math :lol: !

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:56 am 
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AvatarIII wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
what I don't agree with is your estimate of the numbers killed, in the movie each crater was only a couple of city blocks wide, I doubt each attack killed more than say 50,000 people.


Hmmmmmmm, for some reason I had imagined each attack had piled the casualties up to the millions.

Anyways, I still feel the same way about the issue, if "X" person killed fifty thousand people and "Y" killed a million, I really wouldn't go out of my way to say "Y" is the "more evil" one :lol:


you might be right, Manhattan is pretty densely populated, but I really don't think a crater the size we see would have killed that many people, it was only a kind of semi residential district, and there is a clear cut off where the destruction ends, and Manhattan's TOTAL population today is only 1.6 million. population density is 70k per square mile, if the crater was 1 mile in diameter, that would only be 55,000 people, assuming that area had exactly average population density. and that population then was similar to today.

I'm gonna stop you right there.

You're being way too nerdy.

I want you to reflect on the context of that statement, who it's coming from, and where we are. Then you should re-evaluate your life.

(jk)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:42 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
I'm gonna stop you right there.

You're being way too nerdy.

I want you to reflect on the context of that statement, who it's coming from, and where we are. Then you should re-evaluate your life.

(jk)


You don't seem to understand, you have just confirmed that I am, in fact, living the dream!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:23 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
So... america would attack itself... because.........?


I misread that, still, the answer is still in my previous post, if Veidt detonated one of the devices in New York, then the world would simply think Manhattan turned on the US, Manhattan wouldn't be perceived as an enemy to the world, only to the US, and thus, war would continue.

Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
I kind of see what you're saying, but I still feel that movie Adrian was much less sympathy worthy.


I think when you're killing in such numbers, it stops to matter if you kill one million or ten million.


I just realized I half agreed with with you and was coming around to your side of the argument... I must have had more to drink than I thought :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
what I don't agree with is your estimate of the numbers killed, in the movie each crater was only a couple of city blocks wide, I doubt each attack killed more than say 50,000 people.


Hmmmmmmm, for some reason I had imagined each attack had piled the casualties up to the millions.

Anyways, I still feel the same way about the issue, if "X" person killed fifty thousand people and "Y" killed a million, I really wouldn't go out of my way to say "Y" is the "more evil" one :lol:


you might be right, Manhattan is pretty densely populated, but I really don't think a crater the size we see would have killed that many people, it was only a kind of semi residential district, and there is a clear cut off where the destruction ends, and Manhattan's TOTAL population today is only 1.6 million. population density is 70k per square mile, if the crater was 1 mile in diameter, that would only be 55,000 people, assuming that area had exactly average population density. and that population then was similar to today.

I'm gonna stop you right there.

You're being way too nerdy.

I want you to reflect on the context of that statement, who it's coming from, and where we are. Then you should re-evaluate your life.

(jk)

What if the crater does not truly represent those killed? Maybe many surrounding the blast zone were killed by intense radiation or some other effect?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:44 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
What if the crater does not truly represent those killed? Maybe many surrounding the blast zone were killed by intense radiation or some other effect?


Would an energy blast like that release a lethal expansive wave ? Kinda like the ones that emerge from atomic blasts ?

We need a real physicist up in this bitch.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:50 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
DoomsdayClock wrote:
What if the crater does not truly represent those killed? Maybe many surrounding the blast zone were killed by intense radiation or some other effect?


Would an energy blast like that release a lethal expansive wave ? Kinda like the ones that emerge from atomic blasts ?

We need a real physicist up in this bitch.

Forgetting the fact that this is all inconsequential, I recommend Jim Kakalios.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:39 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
So... america would attack itself... because.........?


I misread that, still, the answer is still in my previous post, if Veidt detonated one of the devices in New York, then the world would simply think Manhattan turned on the US, Manhattan wouldn't be perceived as an enemy to the world, only to the US, and thus, war would continue.



More than likely, but it would also show that Manhattan isn't bound by any one government and could start attacking random cities. If New York had just been attacked, then Manhattan gave a speech to the world about war & stuff, then I could see the planet uniting. Otherwise the planet would just live in fear of being Jonbombed.


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