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Overall, what is your reaction to Zack's answers in part I
It improved my opinion of how Snyder is handling the film. I'm excited - now more than ever before. 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
It didn't change my opinion. I knew Snyder was doing a good job. 57%  57%  [ 4 ]
It didn't change my opinion, but I'm still on the fence about Snyder in general. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
It didn't change my opinion. I still feel Snyder will deliver a poor adaptation. 14%  14%  [ 1 ]
It lessened my opinion of how Snyder is handling the film. I'm more worried now that he's going to screw it up. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 7
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:08 pm 
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Kingmob wrote:
No offense, but how was it a great answer if he didn't drop any hints? I'm interested to see what's so good about Pt2 if you call any of those dull, Press hawk circling statements great.

And when I say press hawk, I mean they came across as being so safe it was almost pointless. They were akin to some schmuck posting a plant review on a website with as much detail as you could glean from a trailer.

But I'll wait for Pt2, maybe I'll be amazed.



well i guess theres no pleasing some people unless zack personally goes to them and tickles their balls himself.



im happy for any questions he chooses to answer.
by the way ddc. any chance we can get a list of the questions he didnt answer?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:11 pm 
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hank_chinaski wrote:
by the way ddc. any chance we can get a list of the questions he didnt answer?

This was in another thread, but I'll repost here...

Quote:
- From what we've seen and heard of the movie, you and your crew has definitely done an incredible job taking those small details from the graphic novel, but my question is on whether or not we'll be seeing a rather big detail that appears out of nowhere near the end of the graphic novel. I know you don't want to spoil anything for fans who may have not read the graphic novel, but I have to know whether or not you plan to have that big detail appear in New York City. (I hope you get what I'm hinting at).

- Have you had any sort of contact with Alan Moore regarding your upcoming cinema version of "Watchmen?" ...If so, what has he had to say about it?

- I was kind of curious about the run-time of the movie. I know you're not even close to being done with it, but I remember you saying that the script should clock in *around* 2.5 hours. My question is, where do you see the run-time ending up at? Now that you're filming and totally immersed in the universe, are you thinking of things you just NEED to have in the final product? Do you think it might end up around the 3-hour mark or are you seeing it closer to the 2.5 mark? Thanks!

- What do you think Watchmen is actually about? What is the core of the story, and what point (if any) was Alan Moore trying to make?


Yea!

http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4321&Itemid=99

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 Post subject: O' ye of much faith
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:38 am 
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Facts is facts and I'm guessing that adding two and two will give us four.

Watchmen contains more material than will fit into even a three hour movie, much less two.

There is little point in adding material unless that material is there to take an alternate direction.

There is no need in this whole "Jon creating energy" contrivance unless it has a bearing on the plot.

Tse's draft had this dumb energy being harnessed by Veidt to stand in for the squid.

There would be no need to waste time on it if the squid is to make an appearance.

Therefore, you can bet your smiley badge that there will be no squid and that Tse's dumb blue lightining and Jon's frame job are now the core of Veidt's plan.

You just don't write that kind of crap into a 120-130 page script unless you NEED it there. Any Watchmen script is already pressed for time. Zack is not including this for mild effect.

No squid.

Which means Zack is absolutely not keeping the ending.

Listen to me now or listen to me later.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:13 am 
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Look, I agree, I don't think we're getting the squid.

I also agree it was pretty stupid to say he's absolutely keeping the ending, if there is no squid.

I also agree that it makes sense that Jon's universal energy research plays a part in the plot.

But...

This doesn't mean that the energy ribbon, or the Doc's booming voice, or any of that other crap from the Tse draft survived to the shooting script.

Yeah, I could be wrong. But can a director who pushes for Black Freighter to be weaved into the main movie, and who has made sweeping script changes to be more faithful to the GN keep that shitty Tse ending?

I guess I do have more faith than you, Vyn, but if you end up being right, I'll be as pissed of and dissapointed in Zack as the next fan.

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 Post subject: Re: O' ye of much faith
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:21 am 
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Vynson wrote:
Facts is facts and I'm guessing that adding two and two will give us four.

Watchmen contains more material than will fit into even a three hour movie, much less two.

There is little point in adding material unless that material is there to take an alternate direction.

There is no need in this whole "Jon creating energy" contrivance unless it has a bearing on the plot.

Tse's draft had this dumb energy being harnessed by Veidt to stand in for the squid.

There would be no need to waste time on it if the squid is to make an appearance.

Therefore, you can bet your smiley badge that there will be no squid and that Tse's dumb blue lightining and Jon's frame job are now the core of Veidt's plan.

You just don't write that kind of crap into a 120-130 page script unless you NEED it there. Any Watchmen script is already pressed for time. Zack is not including this for mild effect.

No squid.

Which means Zack is absolutely not keeping the ending.

Listen to me now or listen to me later.


Kurtzman and Orci did a page one rewrite.

That's all I have to say. Someone like Damon Lindlelof, who has called this the best modern frickin' literature around (*who, by the way, named a plot device after the Black Freighter) wouldn't have said that Orci's screenplay was "amazing." They kept the Squid. Trust me.


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 Post subject: Lost... and found
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:10 am 
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I'm not a fan of Kurtzman or Orci, so I am unmoved by this. If they did keep the squid and are still fiddling around with Jon's energy subplot, then I would have to question their sense of story mechanics. Watchmen has enough going on that including stuff like that is just a crazy waste of space unless it is necessary to the plot.

And if it is necessary to the plot, you can bet that Jon's frameup is there. Sans Squidgina. After all, without the frameup, why bother with Jon's blue lightning? Why would that bring accord?

A page one rewrite does not mean that they junked everything in the Tse script. And there is little point in assuming that the idea of framing Jon with this blue lightning and booming voice was Tse's idea. Maybe it was. Or maybe it was part of his notes from Zack or WB. I think Zack understands a lot of Watchmen, but some of those answers in the Q and A make me wonder just how comprehensive that understanding is. All that BS about making the costumes "accessable?" What is that supposed to mean? That if they aren't made of latex, the modern movie audience won't be able to relate to running around in spandex? Excuse me, but isn't that part of the point?

That Damon Lindelof calls Watchmen "the greatest piece of popular fiction ever produced" is actually a little scary. As much as I love it, I'd suggest that Mr. Lindelof is missing something. But, frankly, the only script endorsement that would matter to me would be Alan Moore's. Moore found his own unique voice in his medium. Those who have made careers by being derivative of Moore in comics and other media are of little interest to me. Their opinions of a rewritten script, even less so.

Rorsach wrote:
They kept the Squid. Trust me.


No offense, but......No.

The clues provided by logic and basic story mechanics are far more convincing than your fanship of a tv writer and his endorsement of his pal's script.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:37 am 
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booyah! great news! Total Film (best UK film mag) have put the link on their website:
http://www.totalfilm.com/movie_news/new ... d_a_online!

wahey! it may or may not be because i posted the links on their forum...
still its publicity for the site! "meaty stuff" :D

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 Post subject: Re: Lost... and found
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:04 am 
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Vynson wrote:
I'm not a fan of Kurtzman or Orci, so I am unmoved by this. If they did keep the squid and are still fiddling around with Jon's energy subplot, then I would have to question their sense of story mechanics. Watchmen has enough going on that including stuff like that is just a crazy waste of space unless it is necessary to the plot.

And if it is necessary to the plot, you can bet that Jon's frameup is there. Sans Squidgina. After all, without the frameup, why bother with Jon's blue lightning? Why would that bring accord?

A page one rewrite does not mean that they junked everything in the Tse script. And there is little point in assuming that the idea of framing Jon with this blue lightning and booming voice was Tse's idea. Maybe it was. Or maybe it was part of his notes from Zack or WB. I think Zack understands a lot of Watchmen, but some of those answers in the Q and A make me wonder just how comprehensive that understanding is. All that BS about making the costumes "accessable?" What is that supposed to mean? That if they aren't made of latex, the modern movie audience won't be able to relate to running around in spandex? Excuse me, but isn't that part of the point?

That Damon Lindelof calls Watchmen "the greatest piece of popular fiction ever produced" is actually a little scary. As much as I love it, I'd suggest that Mr. Lindelof is missing something. But, frankly, the only script endorsement that would matter to me would be Alan Moore's. Moore found his own unique voice in his medium. Those who have made careers by being derivative of Moore in comics and other media are of little interest to me. Their opinions of a rewritten script, even less so.

Rorsach wrote:
They kept the Squid. Trust me.



No offense, but......No.

The clues provided by logic and basic story mechanics are far more convincing than your fanship of a tv writer and his endorsement of his pal's script.


"I'm keeping the ending."

To what extent, right? Does Viedt live? If so, why won't he use the Squid? In every draft with the blue lighting plot device, Veidt's killed. I'm sorry, I truly and whole heartedly believe Zack's keeping the ending. You can't have one without the other.


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 Post subject: Squidwert v. Voltron
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:06 am 
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Certainly they could write it so that there is Jon's blue lightning/frame job and Veidt living. Why not? What makes those things counter-exclusive? Dropping the squid doesn't necessitate the death of Adrian Veidt.

And we have no indication that Veidt lives. For all we know, Zack's assertion that he's "...ABSOLUTELY keeping the ending..." is just the dripping ketchup on Seymour's shirt.

There is a lot that has to be cut out to fit the story into a movie. But I think it is somewhat troubling to hear someone rave about Moore while they're talking about Watchmen, and then presume to think they can come up with something better than what Moore wrote while they shoot Watchmen.

The monster squid is part of the deconstruction and part of the thematics.

I think an entertaining film could be made even with a different villainous scheme for Adrian, but let's not pretend toward fidelity if that's the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Squidwert v. Voltron
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:14 am 
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Vynson wrote:
I think an entertaining film could be made even with a different villainous scheme for Adrian, but let's not pretend toward fidelity if that's the case.

I agree.

Sometime next week, I want to post a fan reaction to Zack's answers, and I want to cover it from all sides. I'll be pulling points made in the two Q&A threads, although I'm not naming names or quoting directly.

So your venting here, wheteher it's positive or negative may make it to that article.

That being said, keep the comments coming.

Plus, because I'm poll happy, I'm going to add one to each thread to get an overall feel for what you all thought.

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:58 am 
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I think it's great that Zack took the time to answer the questions and I can appreciate that those who had their questions answered are feeling pumped. I would be too.

Ironically, I don't feel all that pumped about the quality of Mr Snyder's answers. Especially the Part II answers. I don't mean to dump on all of this, and I'm not really sure what would have satisfied me, but I feel seriously underwhelmed.

I know that Zackster has to be cagey and he doesn't want to tip his hand too early, but I feel for all the words he put out there for us, I don't see a lot of substance behind those words.

Sorry for being the bearer of bad news. Go ahead. Shoot me. :cry:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:23 pm 
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I would agree with you dan that there isn't that much substance there. But then I wouldn't expect there to be, after all [and no disprespect mean to CI and DD here] but this is a fan website, and not officially connected to any part of the production or film marketing circus, and Zach wouldn't want to give too much away, since there is a long marketing campaign to be done, and they will want to feed us drips and drabs to keep the interest up, so why tip his hand now.

I'm delighted he took the time to chat, and answer the questions he did, but for me he didn't answer my main query which is, is he keeping the original ending, exploding squiddly-deadly, Veidt lives, the whole shebang? If yes, that is great, if no, then we have a serious issue.

I'm not as cynical as Vynnie yet, as I haven't already concluded that Zach HAS changed the ending, despite his protestations earlier, but frankly any serious change to the ending means potentially totally ruining the entire film. Unless its an obviously alien threat, and unless Veidt lives, the entire moral quandry that caps Watchmen is lost, and they might as well not have bothered.

I can only hope that he is keeping quiet simply because they are going to see what really works with the CGI, and design a squidgina, so he doesn't know exactly what the monster is like yet. As for Adrian dying, well, if that happens Snyder had best go into hiding forever since I and most of the real fans will hunt his ass down if Veidt does get killed at the end to satsify the "focus-group" market out there.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:45 pm 
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Yes, there were no huge revelations, but I really like his answers. They weren't evasive or doubletalk. I'm not sure how he could have answered them better.

As far as the ending and all of that. Look, it's very obvious he knows what's at stake. He knows how big the backlash will be if he keeps the Doc Manhattan energy beams and has Veidt die. Forget integrety here. Do we think he's that clueless or stupid? I say no.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:44 pm 
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Darkweaver wrote:
I can only hope that he is keeping quiet simply because they are going to see what really works with the CGI, and design a squidgina, so he doesn't know exactly what the monster is like yet. As for Adrian dying, well, if that happens Snyder had best go into hiding forever since I and most of the real fans will hunt his ass down if Veidt does get killed at the end to satsify the "focus-group" market out there.
I dunno, I should think that the squid and the CG tests would've been finished by now. Still, it's entirely possible that Snyder is still waiting on something.

Still, I entirely agree that Snyder will have totally failed unless
  • 3 million people in NYC are brutally slain
  • That which killed them is clearly alien
  • Rorschach dies
  • Adrian lives
  • We see Rorschach's Journal in Seymour's grasp
  • We don't see him open it

(By the way, that was done using the "List" button and the "[*]" button. Just discovered that).

Oh, and no offense taken about the crack that this is purely a fan site. To be honest, I consider it a compliment.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:43 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
I dunno, I should think that the squid and the CG tests would've been finished by now. Still, it's entirely possible that Snyder is still waiting on something.


I'd think the CG would be done after most of the shooting was finished.

DoomsdayClock wrote:
there were no huge revelations, but I really like his answers. They weren't evasive or doubletalk.


Igive him credit and agree his answers were thoughtful, but I didn't parse anything that we hadn't already seen, heard, or read. I was expecting news and felt what we got was hype.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:59 pm 
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What we really need is another on set leak from an extra telling us whether or not that NYC backlot has been/will be trashed ready for the insertion in post of a big old CG beastie. This 'cyber-scanning' that's been mentioned smacks more of enabling the visual vaporisation of a street full of people where they stand in the blink of an eye by a sudden blast of energy more than having broken, bloody bodies strewn about buried beneath chunks of broken masonry.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:20 pm 
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dandreiberg wrote:
I'd think the CG would be done after most of the shooting was finished.
Yes, the final CG shots won't be completely finished until just before the movie is released. But I'm talking about the CG tests, the crude animations, texture maps and models that are done quickly and with virtually no budget. In big-budget tentpoles like this one, it's Standard Operating Procedure to do extensive tests on CG and make sure every VFX shot is carefully storyboarded. They plan it on a small scale so they save money doing it on a bigger scale, you see.

Writer Of Wrongs wrote:
What we really need is another on set leak from an extra telling us whether or not that NYC backlot has been/will be trashed ready for the insertion in post of a big old CG beastie.
Not happening. The extra reports we've gotten so far have been pretty tight-lipped. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they know the ending and they aren't willing to spill the beans. I doubt anyone will.

No, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is no squid. If that's the case, the ending will be different and it won't be Watchmen. But then, I think we've all taken it as a given that whatever we see onscreen, it won't be the graphic novel. And it's still possible that the Ultimate Weapon will be conceivably alien in nature. As long as it kills millions of people, leaves some remains, could easily be mistaken for an extraterrestrial threat and brings about world peace, that's good enough for me.

But I think it's still a bit too early to come to that conclusion. There's still a lot about this that we don't know. To be honest, I'm a little glad Snyder passed on that question. After all, if we knew he was keeping the ending, what would we have to debate about?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:28 pm 
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The actors, the poster, the trailer, the music, the running time, the opening line, the costumes, the rating, the DVD extras, the merchandising, Alan Moore's lack of interest, whether it should be made at all...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:40 pm 
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Okay, let me put it this way:

There are two kinds of people who go into a movie based on an existing work. Those who already know the story and those who don't. And the two groups watch the same movies in two completely different ways. One is focused on how the story is going to unfold, and the other is focused on what the filmmakers put in and left out.

This approach is rather unusual in that it reconciles the two groups. We, as Watchmen readers, will be waiting for the ending just like the newcomers, but for different reasons. Most people walk into a movie without really 100% knowing how it's going to end. If they keep the ending we want, we won't have that state of mind or that potential for surprise walking in. So really, we win either way.

Snyder is keeping us guessing because that's the only way to really surprise us. Does that make sense?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:52 pm 
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Perfectly.
But in this age of the AICN test audience preview screening scooper and their ilk, I think it's somewhat optimistic to think you'll be walking into a showing on general release still totally oblivious as to what 'surprises' are in store. Unless of course you are planning on abstaining from this website and the internet in general from about October onwards. Which might make proud moderating kinda difficult, I would think.


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