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 Post subject: Rorschach's 'day-job'
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:45 pm 
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I'm not talking about the Doomsday Prophet we all know and love. Aside from swiping food from Moloch and Dan, he actually goes into a diner and pays for a cup of coffee ( 5-11-7). Where does he get the money? He's no longer in the garment trade, surely?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:53 pm 
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Yeah, as crappy as his apartment was, he still needed rent money.

My guess is that he scrounged around, grabbing loose cash or stuff he could pawn during the day, and probably during the night as Rorschach. It's not much of a stretch to imagine Rorschach taking cash off of a drug dealer he'd just beaten to a pulp. Stuff like that.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:57 pm 
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EmPiiRe x wrote:
Yeah, as crappy as his apartment was, he still needed rent money.

My guess is that he scrounged around, grabbing loose cash or stuff he could pawn during the day, and probably during the night as Rorschach. It's not much of a stretch to imagine Rorschach taking cash off of a drug dealer he'd just beaten to a pulp. Stuff like that.


I wouldn't put it past him. Makes me wonder what he did with the pair of keds he found in his 'maildrop'. I call trashcans that now. I get weird stares from my co-workers :mrgreen: .

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:58 pm 
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I'm thinking he's on welfare. He's so quick to talk about decent men who believed in a day's work for a day's pay at the beginning, when he clearly doesn't do so himself. He's also quick to condemn his landlady for "cheating on welfare"...given what we know about him...and his often hypocritical nature, I've always imagined he probably does the same.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:59 pm 
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The psychiatric report indicates that he left the garment industry after "becoming" Rorschach. It's possible that he never held a job after that. He's hypocritical enough to steal from Dan and Moloch--maybe he picks the pockets of the criminals he assaults, with the justification that the money then won't be going towards drugs, prostitutes, etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:18 am 
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Ronch Ronch Ronch wrote:
The psychiatric report indicates that he left the garment industry after "becoming" Rorschach. It's possible that he never held a job after that. He's hypocritical enough to steal from Dan and Moloch--maybe he picks the pockets of the criminals he assaults, with the justification that the money then won't be going towards drugs, prostitutes, etc.


What I wonder is, why is Rorschach a hypocrite? Hurm...must investigate further...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:41 am 
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I've wondered this myself. I tend to agree with that above, that he steals the money from criminals, like drug dealers.

You know what's hypocritical about him? He doesn't "punish" prostitutes and pimps. He'll "punish" those, like Moloch, who don't have a gun license or a prescription paperwork, but he doesn't "punish" those guilty of prostitution? Weird!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:43 am 
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DogWithHeadSplitOpen wrote:
I've wondered this myself. I tend to agree with that above, that he steals the money from criminals, like drug dealers.

You know what's hypocritical about him? He doesn't "punish" prostitutes and pimps. He'll "punish" those, like Moloch, who don't have a gun license or a prescription paperwork, but he doesn't "punish" those guilty of prostitution? Weird!


Maybe he does love his mother after all...

No, I don't. Gimme one of those beers.

ETA: I can't help but wonder, had Dr. Manhattan not killed him, does anyone else think that Rorschach would have become another verson of Byron "Mothman" Lewis, mentally ill and instiutionalized?

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Last edited by Lady_Rorschach on Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:56 am 
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Lady_Rorschach wrote:
DogWithHeadSplitOpen wrote:
I've wondered this myself. I tend to agree with that above, that he steals the money from criminals, like drug dealers.

You know what's hypocritical about him? He doesn't "punish" prostitutes and pimps. He'll "punish" those, like Moloch, who don't have a gun license or a prescription paperwork, but he doesn't "punish" those guilty of prostitution? Weird!


Maybe he does love his mother after all...


You beat me to the punch, LR. There's whole categories of crime that Rorschach blithely passes on by (okay, "creepily passes on by") on his way to harass bar-flies and elderly cancer patients. Granted, Ror may be picking his fights more carefully now that he's operating 100% outside of the law, but it is an interesting foible to see in a character that prides himself on not compromising, even in the face of death.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:01 am 
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DrFünkehattan wrote:
You beat me to the punch, LR. There's whole categories of crime that Rorschach blithely passes on by (okay, "creepily passes on by") on his way to harass bar-flies and elderly cancer patients. Granted, Ror may be picking his fights more carefully now that he's operating 100% outside of the law, but it is an interesting foible to see in a character that prides himself on not compromising, even in the face of death.


I like to think that because he passes the whores by (and refuses their offers) he can't bear to harm them because those women remind him of his mother. Underneath the 'face' of Rorschach, perhaps there is still that scared 10 year old boy, worried that someone was hurting the women who so remind him of his mother.

Norman Bates complex?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:05 am 
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Lady_Rorschach wrote:
Maybe he does love his mother after all...
I don't doubt it.

Quote:
ETA: I can't help but wonder, had Dr. Manhattan not killed him, does anyone else think that Rorschach would have become another verson of Byron "Mothman" Lewis, mentally ill and instiutionalized?
If they could catch him again, probably, but I don't see him staying their for long. He's an elusive little minx. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:06 am 
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I wouldn't say Norman Bates . . .

Bates was infatuated with his mother, his mother was the central focus of his life, whereas Rorschach did his best to shove his mother out of his psyche, but, as hard as he tried, there was still a tidbit of sentiment left, and it may have manifested itself in him turning a blind eye to whores. Very interesting discussion . . .

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:10 am 
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He's an elusive little minx.

O dear me. I snarfed coffee out of my nose at work.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:11 am 
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DogWithHeadSplitOpen wrote:
Lady_Rorschach wrote:
Maybe he does love his mother after all...
I don't doubt it.

Quote:
ETA: I can't help but wonder, had Dr. Manhattan not killed him, does anyone else think that Rorschach would have become another verson of Byron "Mothman" Lewis, mentally ill and instiutionalized?
If they could catch him again, probably, but I don't see him staying their for long. He's an elusive little minx. :lol:



He's our elusive little minx.

Can I have my clothes back?

Get back in the fridge!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:25 pm 
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He says "Mother" before he opens his eyes for the first time as Rorschach, so maybe the Norman Bates interpretation is right. I don't think it's just his mother, but the abyss around him that whispers "no" uncaringly when he looks for meaning or love in existence.
Mothman always seemed to me to be a Golden Age counterpart of Rorschach or Veidt. There are some costume similarities in the zigzagging, and the moth is a creature that flies into light, which puts me in mind of Veidt's role as a "modern prometheus". Rorschach also gets shown the light by Dr Manhattan, and he definitely would have had some kind of crack-up after the squid. Hooded Justice also seems to be the counterpart of one of those two characters, but I'm not sure which. He and Mothman could each be a blend of the two, for whatever reason.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:30 pm 
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behemoth wrote:
He says "Mother" before he opens his eyes for the first time as Rorschach, so maybe the Norman Bates interpretation is right. I don't think it's just his mother, but the abyss around him that whispers "no" uncaringly when he looks for meaning or love in existence.
Mothman always seemed to me to be a Golden Age counterpart of Rorschach or Veidt. There are some costume similarities in the zigzagging, and the moth is a creature that flies into light, which puts me in mind of Veidt's role as a "modern prometheus". Rorschach also gets shown the light by Dr Manhattan, and he definitely would have had some kind of crack-up after the squid. Hooded Justice also seems to be the counterpart of one of those two characters, but I'm not sure which. He and Mothman could each be a blend of the two, for whatever reason.


There is also the dream that a 13 year old Kovacs has (see Dr, Long's psych report) that upset him 'physically'. A teenage wet dream about his mother? *shudders*

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:34 pm 
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Lady_Rorschach wrote:
There is also the dream that a 13 year old Kovacs has (see Dr, Long's psych report) that upset him 'physically'. A teenage wet dream about his mother? *shudders*


Yeah, the monster image of his mother in that dream has a moth or butterfly shape to it, and we know symmetry is an important motif in the book.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:37 pm 
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behemoth wrote:
Lady_Rorschach wrote:
There is also the dream that a 13 year old Kovacs has (see Dr, Long's psych report) that upset him 'physically'. A teenage wet dream about his mother? *shudders*


Yeah, the monster image of his mother in that dream has a moth or butterfly shape to it, and we know symmetry is an important motif in the book.


The 'butterfly' image also shows up on Rors' mask minutes before he screams at Manhattan to kill him. I wonder what that means?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:46 pm 
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Lady_Rorschach wrote:
behemoth wrote:
Lady_Rorschach wrote:
There is also the dream that a 13 year old Kovacs has (see Dr, Long's psych report) that upset him 'physically'. A teenage wet dream about his mother? *shudders*


Yeah, the monster image of his mother in that dream has a moth or butterfly shape to it, and we know symmetry is an important motif in the book.


The 'butterfly' image also shows up on Rors' mask minutes before he screams at Manhattan to kill him. I wonder what that means?



Well it might be more accurate to call it the reverse of a butterfly, if I can backpedal over what I said. It's some kind of dissolution that to Rorschach is deadly. It's a synthesis on many levels; of warring nations into peace, and Dan and Laurie's shadows in Veidt's palace before they get it on, and it represents the end of the conflict which defines Rorschach's life. When Jon leaves that scene to confront Veidt he walks past some aquariums and butterfly cases that suggest that something has been captured or contained. It's pretty sad to see that symmetry of Rorschach's face condense into a black spot in the cold of the Antarctic snow.

Here's a quote from RLS in the 'Blood from the Shoulder of Pallas' thread that may explain the synthesis, and Rorschach's role as a being of Reason.
Quote:
Shelley distinguishes between Imagination and Reason, characterizing the first as "to poiein" - what he translates as "the principle of synthesis;" the root of the word "poet" - and the second as "to logizein" - which he translates as "the principle of analysis." "Reason," he writes, "is the enumeration of quantities already known; Imagination is the perception of the value of those quantities, both separately and as a whole. Reason respects the differences, and Imagination the similitudes of things. Reason is to Imagination as the instrument to the agent, as the body to the spirt, as the shadow to the substance." All of which makes Imagination way better than Reason, according to Percy.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:14 pm 
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Lady_Rorschach wrote:
What I wonder is, why is Rorschach a hypocrite? Hurm...must investigate further...

He's a hypocrite because Moore wants to show the infeasability of the philosophy Rorschach portrays -- moral objectivism. Things just can't be only black (evil) or white (good). There is gray about everything.

Rorschach is based on the Charlton characters Mr A and The Question, who protrayed moral objectivism to the tee. Both were created by the ardent moral objectivist, Steve Ditko.

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