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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:58 pm 
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Something that I brought up in the costumes thread really started me thinking. Dr. Manhattan and Ozymandias have a relationship in the story that is diametrically opposite of one another.

Dr. Manhattan is naked, purley scientific, no empathy for humanity. He is a man of the future who brings scientific advancements to the world. People around him are scared of him and he generally gives people the creeps. He is unwilling to save humanity, but is always asked. His retreat is the red, dusty landscape of Mars. His name is a product of the atomic age.

Ozymandias is dressed in overblown regalia. He has extreme empathy for humanity. He is a man of the past who decorates his offices like ancient egypt, and admires Alexander the Great. People around him are drawn to his charisma and vitality. He is striving to save humanity, but is never asked. His retreat is the white, snowy landscape of Antarctica. His name is a product of the ancient world.

What do you think?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:34 am 
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Interesting. But the contrast goes deeper.

Dr. Manhattan -- initially, anyway -- doesn't much care for humanity. He loves Mars in its barren, quiet beauty. Veidt loves humanity and he loves Earth so much that he'd go to any unheard-of-length to protect it.

There's also the matter of relationships. Dr. Manhattan has experienced love. In fact, his love of Janey and Laurie is the only thing binding him to humanity. Ozymandias has no wife (he may never have had a girlfriend, for all we know) and it's been hinted that he may be gay or asexual.

Finally, they are both ubermensches. They are the pinnacles of human achievement. Supermen. But in this, they are opposites, because one attained "perfection" through a lifetime of hard work and mundane exercises, while the other attained it through a freak scientific accident.

However, I can see resemblances between the two characters. For example, Ozymandias build Bubastis for company and sacrificed her. Dr. Manhattan built his palace, which was the closest thing he had to company on Mars, and allowed it to break.

Any other similarities or differences?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:58 pm 
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Doctor Mannhattan's story is played mostly through the emotions of himslef. You see when the Doc (not Emit Brown) realizes he gives radiation that can kill people, he falls into a deep depression resulting in his departure from Earth. This is going to be a very intense emotional story fro Synder to image for the screen, your going to have to see the grief he cuase and recieves throughout this part of the movie.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:11 pm 
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In breaking down the differences between the two, you may discover that Dr. Manhattan's chosen symbol is the natural circle, while Adrian's is the man-made triangle. I believe that all differences between the two (including, but not limited to, their clothing choices) stems from this basic fact.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:41 am 
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I think it's important to realize that this comparison is not a two way street but rather a trinity. The thematic involved is the godhead. The father, son, and holy ghost... ie. the distant all powerful god (Jon), the involved, man-loving philosopher saviour (Adrian), and the moral judge (Rorschach).

The image systems throughout the book constantly point to these three as sharing the trinity of the godhead in just this way.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:00 am 
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Vynson wrote:
I think it's important to realize that this comparison is not a two way street but rather a trinity. The thematic involved is the godhead. The father, son, and holy ghost... ie. the distant all powerful god (Jon), the involved, man-loving philosopher saviour (Adrian), and the moral judge (Rorschach).

The image systems throughout the book constantly point to these three as sharing the trinity of the godhead in just this way.

An interesting notion. Please elaborate.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:30 pm 
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he never did,did he? :) :) :D

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:54 pm 
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rustyjp wrote:
he never did,did he? :) :) :D

Laugh out loud.

(Down with abbreviations I say!)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:55 am 
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I'd also like to point out the similarities between the ways Jon and Veidt talk about what they consider good.

"No life. No life at all, but giant steps, ninety feet high, scoured by dust and wind into a constantly changing topographical map, flowing and shifting around the pole in ripples ten thousand years wide. Tell me... would it be greatly improved by an oil pipeline?"
- Dr. Manhattan (IX.13.3-4)

"'End of the world' does the concept no justice. The world's present would end. Its future, immreasurably vaster, would also vanish. Even our past would be cancelled. Our struggle from the primal ooze, every childbirth, every personal sacrifice rendered meaningless, leading only to dust, tossed on the void-winds. Save for Richard Nixon, whose name adorns a plaque on the moon, no human vestige would remain. Ruins become sand, sand blows away... all our richness and color and beauty would be lost... as if it had never been."
- Adrian Veidt (XI.22.6-7)

Notice the motif of the dust/sand and how they view it differently. I love it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:52 am 
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Hey man, welcome back - nice post :)

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:57 pm 
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I view Ozy and the Doc as metaphors for Business ands Science respectively.

Adrian represents the business class. Self made, self starting, influencial, and totally in control of his image. His image is omnipresent - print, television, radio, billboards, trucks, coffee pots, spark hydrants, clothing, perfume - it goes on and on. He is revered and celebrated. He is more than a man, he is a brand. He understands what motivates the masses and uses this knowledge to manipulate the world according to his view.

Jon represents the scientific community. He is striving to understand the universe and wants to serve others but is not in control of how his creations or powers are used. The govenment uses his image to strike fear into those who break its laws or oppose it's agenda. He is feared and misunderstood. He tries to understand humanity but being logical, he cannot understand the irrational world of humans that is a odds to what he perceives as the ordered world of nature.

My opinions, of course.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:12 pm 
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dandreiberg wrote:
Self made, self starting, influencial, and totally in control of his image. His image is omnipresent - print, television, radio, billboards, trucks, coffee pots, spark hydrants, clothing, perfume - it goes on and on. He is revered and celebrated. He is more than a man, he is a brand. He understands what motivates the masses and uses this knowledge to manipulate the world according to his view.


This looks like the job description of Adolf. Veidt is also vegetarian and has no known sexual life.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:43 pm 
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Except that Hitler had several sexual relationships - his niece, then Eva Braun, then Satan.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:45 pm 
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No, he was talking about Adolf Smith. His next door neighbor.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:30 am 
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WJK wrote:
Except that Hitler had several sexual relationships - his niece, then Eva Braun, then Satan.


Really? Not enough to prevent some writers to believe he was homosexual and build a theory around that. The point is that sexuality was really a minor point of his life. True or not but this how he appeared. And this is how Ozy appears even more. Was it a clue from Moore, as is his german ascent?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 am 
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max wrote:
Really? Not enough to prevent some writers to believe he was homosexual and build a theory around that.

Well, some people think that Hitler was an atheist as well but that's highly disputed.

Plus, a large amount of people think that the moon landing and 9/11 were government conspiracies so you should probably take anything anyone ever says ever with a big fat grain of salt.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:12 am 
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Godziller66 wrote:
Well, some people think that Hitler was an atheist as well but that's highly disputed.


Being an atheist myself it would bother me that Hitler was one too. But honestly, just like his sexuality, it's rather irrelevant to who he was and his ideology. Just like the fact he was vegetarian.

Godziller66 wrote:
you should probably take anything anyone ever says ever with a big fat grain of salt.


Don't worry for me, I'm a skeptic.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:15 am 
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max wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Well, some people think that Hitler was an atheist as well but that's highly disputed.


Being an atheist myself it would bother me that Hitler was one too. But honestly, just like his sexuality, it's rather irrelevant to who he was and his ideology. Just like the fact he was vegetarian.

lol He also had a moustache. Of course, we know that everyone with a moustache isn't evil.

Goatees on the other hand...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:32 am 
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Godziller66 wrote:
lol He also had a moustache. Of course, we know that everyone with a moustache isn't evil.


But nobody is able to wear his mustache style without immediately recall the German dictator.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:12 pm 
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max wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
lol He also had a moustache. Of course, we know that everyone with a moustache isn't evil.


But nobody is able to wear his mustache style without immediately recall the German dictator.


Josef Stalin. He had a nice thick handlebar going. Hitler had some little Charlie Chaplin crap.


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