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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:31 pm 
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I didn't see this anywhere else, so I deeply apologize if this was written anywhere else.

Something that's always bothered me about the rape scene was when Hooded Justice stops the Comedian and he says something to the effect of "She wanted it!" and the Silk Spectre doesn't really refute that claim. Knowing that HH was a sadist who got off on violence as well, couldn't SS 1 be the same way? She fought crime, I'm sure she's been up against guys who were tougher than the Comedian?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:34 pm 
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Last edited by People Must Be Told. on Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:42 pm 
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True, true God I don't really mean that she really wanted it like an asshole but I was just curious if it could be played out that way. That it might have been planned given the information from Hollis and later Rorschach that the superheroes all have a few screws loose. That maybe instead of being the strong Silk Spectre she might have wanted to be dominated.

I'm a girl by the way before someone threatens to chop off my dick. It was just something that came to mind so I figured I'd ask.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:51 pm 
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She was never that strong a person in any event, certainly not when it came to affairs of the heart; despite what Blake did to her that day, she still accepted him in her bed by mutual consent years later, bore him a daughter and loved him to the very end (planting the kiss on his image in the Minutemen photo?)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:22 am 
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Deus Ex Machina wrote:
True, true God I don't really mean that she really wanted it like an asshole but I was just curious if it could be played out that way. That it might have been planned given the information from Hollis and later Rorschach that the superheroes all have a few screws loose. That maybe instead of being the strong Silk Spectre she might have wanted to be dominated.

I'm a girl by the way before someone threatens to chop off my dick. It was just something that came to mind so I figured I'd ask.

The idea of the assault being a planned encounter seems extremely unlikely. There's no evidence to suggest Sally had a thing for roughhousing, in fact, it's probably quite the opposite. Remember when she was talking to Larry and mentioned how Blake had gentle with her during their later, consensual encounter? Chapter nine, page seven, panels 4-5: "Plus, he was gentle. You know what gentleness means in a guy like that? Even a glimmer of it? It means you reached something. It means you reached some of that magical romance and bullshit they promise you when you're a kid."

I think her lack of response had to do with her broken physical and probably mental state. I don't know if I'd have been able to say anything in that moment either.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:33 am 
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Blake had also been holding her down by the neck and choking her. In addition to her other injuries she was probably physically incapable of saying anything coherent at that moment. (Not that she needed to, anyway, since Blake's crime was apparent.)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:04 pm 
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People Must Be Told. wrote:
She was never that strong a person in any event, certainly not when it came to affairs of the heart; despite what Blake did to her that day, she still accepted him in her bed by mutual consent years later, bore him a daughter and loved him to the very end (planting the kiss on his image in the Minutemen photo?)


Sally even speaks of her confusion in one of the "interviews" in the between-chapters text. She talks about how she felt like she invited his attentions, no matter how they manifested, so it was really hard for her to maintain her anger. She downplays the attraction tho, which in the brief clip of the post Minuteman picture scene (before the attempted rape) from the movie is absolutely RAGING between CG and JDM. The question is, was the attraction genuine, or one of convenience? (he's here, he's not bad looking, what the hell?) And on whose part?
I think she tries to shield Laurie more from the truth of how she feels about the Comedian rather than the truth of her parentage. It's more of a betrayal (to Laurie) for her to love him for longer than that one moment when Laurie was conceived.

Which makes Laurie's acceptance of the truth much more powerful for Jon.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:19 pm 
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I think SSI is most concerned with making sure that the things that happened to her never happen to Laurie. I agree that it's not so much about hiding her parentage from her. The G.I. Joe that Sally gives her (which she mentions when Dan shows her his spare costumes) was probably a mixed-up attempt to let her know the Comedian.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:51 pm 
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behemoth wrote:
I think SSI is most concerned with making sure that the things that happened to her never happen to Laurie. I agree that it's not so much about hiding her parentage from her. The G.I. Joe that Sally gives her (which she mentions when Dan shows her his spare costumes) was probably a mixed-up attempt to let her know the Comedian.



I was thinking this, too. It's very ironic...it's like she got all these clues early on, and it just didn't register until Jon's leading questions on Mars.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Fahnette wrote:
People Must Be Told. wrote:
She was never that strong a person in any event, certainly not when it came to affairs of the heart; despite what Blake did to her that day, she still accepted him in her bed by mutual consent years later, bore him a daughter and loved him to the very end (planting the kiss on his image in the Minutemen photo?)


Sally even speaks of her confusion in one of the "interviews" in the between-chapters text. She talks about how she felt like she invited his attentions, no matter how they manifested, so it was really hard for her to maintain her anger. She downplays the attraction tho, which in the brief clip of the post Minuteman picture scene (before the attempted rape) from the movie is absolutely RAGING between CG and JDM. The question is, was the attraction genuine, or one of convenience? (he's here, he's not bad looking, what the hell?) And on whose part?
I think she tries to shield Laurie more from the truth of how she feels about the Comedian rather than the truth of her parentage. It's more of a betrayal (to Laurie) for her to love him for longer than that one moment when Laurie was conceived.

Which makes Laurie's acceptance of the truth much more powerful for Jon.


I am wondering about their connection...this isn't in the graphic novel, but in one of the magazine articles, CG says something to the effect of they were "almost soulmates." I'm honestly of the opinion that she would have ended up with him if he hadn't tried to rape her, and she hadn't been leashed to HJ (as a cover) or to Larry Schexnayder (as her manager.) It's obvious she married Larry out of convenience, (especially judging from the "as much of a proposal as I ever got" quip in her scrapbook when he talks about retiring to his place out in the country.) I think she probably did so for security's sake (trying to find the best/most stable situation for herself.)

But when the Comedian came around and they had their moment (I almost picture it being like that scene from Hellraiser where Frank shows up on the doorstep the day before the wedding) I think she realized that she did have a thing for him. I think she probably pined for him her whole life. I know that's highly disturbing considering what he did, but I think it was the truth. I think she wondered what would have happened had she just capitulated the first time.

D: I really don't want to go on because the dude is psychotic in many ways and the whole situation is kinda squicky - but yes, I think she did love him, and the attraction was genuine.

EDIT: Also on the scrapbook...all the info is there (the letterfrom Larry about HJ and CM's difficulties with Sally's footnotes, etc.) Did Laurie ever read through that all the way? I don't know that she could have, and still have been able to maintain the idea that HJ was her father.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:09 pm 
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Last edited by People Must Be Told. on Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:11 pm 
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People Must Be Told. wrote:
numb3r5ev3n wrote:
I was thinking this, too. It's very ironic...it's like she got all these clues early on, and it just didn't register until Jon's leading questions on Mars.

Just like us readers, in actual fact: How many clues did it take before you realised the truth?


I was spoiled way before I ever read it. :( I was also spoiled about Walter the Doomsday Sign Guy being Rorschach's alter-ego, so I didn't get to freak out when he was unmasked.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:15 pm 
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numb3r5ev3n wrote:
People Must Be Told. wrote:
numb3r5ev3n wrote:
I was thinking this, too. It's very ironic...it's like she got all these clues early on, and it just didn't register until Jon's leading questions on Mars.

Just like us readers, in actual fact: How many clues did it take before you realised the truth?


I was spoiled way before I ever read it. :( I was also spoiled about Walter the Doomsday Sign Guy being Rorschach's alter-ego, so I didn't get to freak out when he was unmasked.


Ugh. Harsh. :x A pox on whoever spoiled it for you.

Back on topic...
The hair color, the costume color, the smoking... Laurie was a visual mix of Sally and Eddie.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Undoubtedly. And when did that particular penny drop for you? (second time lucky here)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:23 pm 
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People Must Be Told. wrote:
Undoubtedly. And when did that particular penny drop for you? (second time lucky here)


Click one happened with Laurie's earliest memory. That's when it REALLY registered that Sally was in love with Eddie.
Click two--"Can't a guy talk to his... y'know, his old friend's daughter?"

And the look on Sally's face in the car... after that I looked back at all the artwork on Sally, Eddie, and Laurie with a magnifying glass and my head in a whirl.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:15 am 
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numb3r5ev3n wrote:

I was thinking this, too. It's very ironic...it's like she got all these clues early on, and it just didn't register until Jon's leading questions on Mars.

I wonder if it really never registered or if she knew but just didn't want to know until forced to come to terms with it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:34 am 
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dont forget, for awhile Laurie thought Hooded Justice was her Dad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:57 am 
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TheDude311 wrote:
dont forget, for awhile Laurie thought Hooded Justice was her Dad.

That's true. I just find it funny she had all these memories and clues floating around in her mind but didn't piece them together until that very moment.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:20 pm 
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behemoth wrote:
I think SSI is most concerned with making sure that the things that happened to her never happen to Laurie. I agree that it's not so much about hiding her parentage from her. The G.I. Joe that Sally gives her (which she mentions when Dan shows her his spare costumes) was probably a mixed-up attempt to let her know the Comedian.


Wonderful theory about the G.I. Joe.

Perhaps Sally wanted Laurie to go into crimefighting not only as an extension of her own dreams, but as an unconscious way of teaching her she needs to take care of herself? Sally didn't exactly choose well when it came to who she could rely on as a partner. Eddie was a violent, amoral person, and Larry was a control freak.
Laurie's first choice was an emotionally distant "god". I think she felt safe with Dan because he was so far removed from the world she'd been forced into when she was a child.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:29 pm 
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[NOTE: This post started its own thread until I merged it here. --"Curiosity Inc."]

I understand how maybe Sally could fall in love with Eddie even after the attempted rape. Especially when she says how he was gentle and what that meant to her. What I don't get, is after Sally says that she couldn't sustain the anger, (this would lead me to believe she forgave Eddie, no?) she appears outside of the Crimebusters meeting to pick up Laurie and seems to be furious at Eddie. Saying "I know what you are Edward Blake." Refusing to let Laurie even talk to him. Why the anger here? Wasn't she in love with him? Hadn't she forgiven him? When did she leave him? When did she begin hating him again? Did Sally ever see Eddie again or did he die alone while she grew old in California? Was Laurie the result of a one night stand between Sally and Eddie and then Sally regreted it? I just feel like I missed something.

Any thoughts would be appriciated!

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