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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:01 pm 
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Last edited by People Must Be Told. on Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:18 pm 
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People Must Be Told. wrote:
Eddiesgirl wrote:
Did Sally ever see Eddie again or did he die alone while she grew old in California?... I just feel like I missed something.

'Eddie' Edward Blake is The Comedian which I would think is answer enough.

Never been pissed at someone you love? When Sally saw Blake with Laurie after that meeting, she went into overprotective mom mode. Remember that at this point, Laurie didn't know the truth about her parentage (and wouldn't for some considerable time to come) and Sally was terrified that if Blake spilled the beans there and then, her own daughter would immediately start to ask her some obviously awkward questions which would very well lead to her becoming emotionally damaged goods at such a tender age as a result.

Not just that but Sally was at that point probably still in denial that she could, and did, love anyone who was that dangerous, who even after that one night of tenderness could then go out and assassinate a president, destroy villages, all with a smile on his face. Only after he dies do we see the true depth of her forgiveness.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:29 am 
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Fahnette wrote:
...who even after that one night of tenderness could then go out and assassinate a president, destroy villages, all with a smile on his face.

Sally's confrontation with Blake after the aborted Crimebusters meeting is pre his involvement in 'Nam. Even if it hadn't have been, why would see know the full details of Blake's no doubt brutal activities over there? I'm sure the governmental PR machine would have sold The Comedian to the general public as being a great patriotic American hero, bravely risking all to protect US interests overseas and, to which end, any information regarding atrocities he committed would be kept highly classified and buried away. There's no reason why an aging ex costumed floozy of yesteryear would be in receipt of such guarded sensitive information.

The exact same argument applies to Blake's involvement in the JFK assassination; how would Sally know?

Strikes me that back in '66, Blake and his costumed ilk were still riding the wave of what was largely public popularity and so Sally would only know that which she read in the papers or saw on TV along with everyone else when it came to his current exploits; she had no privileged level of access. I suppose what she does have is the benefit of a unique insight resulting from bitter experience when it comes to the man that others do not: when she sees him grinning from out the newspaper page or on TV after having taken out another lowlife criminal someplace, she knows that he's getting a sadistic kick out of it and does what he does because he gets off on the violence.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:48 am 
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Eep! Thanks for pointing out my lack of clarification. I owe you a cake.
I wasn't talking about what she knew of his activities, just that she understood what he could be capable of since she'd been on the receiving end all those years ago.

I would bet she could see through the marketing machine tho, she'd been part of it for quite a while.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:39 pm 
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I wonder sometimes if the Comedian had any real interest in Sally beyond a one night stand... I'm still not sure.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:16 pm 
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1) I always wondered if she married Larry Schexnayder as a cover for her pregnancy with Comedian's baby. I also got the feeling that Larry was gay, for some reason, or never really loved Sally - did anybody else think that?

2) If Comedian was the one who was sending Sally the porn comics, that might (weirdly) be a symbol of what he thought of her, and it was romantic to Sally because she was being remembered at all.

3) I wonder if, for Sally, there wasn't something about the Comedian that made her think she could reform him.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:34 pm 
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Jupiter Jones wrote:
3) I wonder if, for Sally, there wasn't something about the Comedian that made her think she could reform him.

Bad-boy syndrome?

There are a lot of women out there who get involved with men like this because they feel like if they can get them to change, it somehow proves their worth as a woman.
Once you realize and acknowledge that your worth comes from within, you stop choosing (however unconsciously) crappy partners.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:24 am 
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Jupiter Jones wrote:
1) I always wondered if she married Larry Schexnayder as a cover for her pregnancy with Comedian's baby. I also got the feeling that Larry was gay, for some reason, or never really loved Sally - did anybody else think that?


According to “Under the Hood”, Sally married Schexnayder in 1947, whereas Laurie was born in 1949, so her relationship with the Comedian must have been after the marriage. I’m pretty sure I can see the Comedian in the Wedding photo, though, immediately left of Sally – or are my eyes deceiving me? It seems a bit bizarre that he should be there at all after being expelled from the Minutemen, though perhaps - if Shexnayder had been covering up the issue, it was a canny publicity trick to get the Comedian on board?

Out of interest, I don’t see any evidence that Sally was physically tough. All the references to her crime fighting imply that she was cashing in on the masked hero fad to further her modeling and movie career, and that criminals were lining up to be arrested by her, rather than being taken down by force. Her reputation seems to be based on her good looks and Shexnayder’s marketing, rather than any actual crime-fighting prowess, so she would never have stood a chance against the comedian physically. I’d always assumed that this was one of the factors that led to Sally living vicariously through Laurie’s career: she raised Laurie to be a “proper” vigilante, who *is* capable of using brute force to fend off the thugs.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:38 pm 
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My impression of the Laurie/Comedian/Sally scene after the Crimebusters meeting was that Sally thought Eddie was trying to seduce Laurie. Her line "... and as for you, are there no depths you won't sink to?" strongly indicates this I think.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:13 am 
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Walter K. wrote:
My impression of the Laurie/Comedian/Sally scene after the Crimebusters meeting was that Sally thought Eddie was trying to seduce Laurie. Her line "... and as for you, are there no depths you won't sink to?" strongly indicates this I think.


Maybe Sally was just saying that for Laurie's benefit, worried what would happen if Eddie told the truth then and there. Sally did not seem to have any intention of ever telling Laurie the truth. To Sally, Laurie reading Under the Hood and finding out about the attack was an inevitability. Laurie finding out Eddie was her father was not an inevitability. (If Sally swore Eddie to secrecy is a question. If Adrian found out is another question.)

Also, the "depths you won't sink to" line ties into the water motif in that chapter (the snowglobe, Byron's drink of water, the drink Laurie throws at Eddie, the perfume bottle, etc.).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:33 pm 
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I initially figured Sally was afraid the Comedian might lose his temper and beat up Laurie if Laurie said or did something that angered/annoyed him. It didn't exactly take a lot to provoke the guy into a fight, after all. I know that's not a very in depth way of looking at the scene, but that's what I thought the first time I read it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:40 pm 
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I didnt want to start a new thread for this..but does anyone else think that perhaps the Comedian and Sally's second meeting was just a one night stand for him? Becuase theres not really any evidence that he deeply cared for Sally or Laurie. And the only time he meets Laurie are kind of coincidence; he doesnt seek her out to talk to her in any way really. Just wondering what anyone else thought of this?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:32 pm 
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ohericuh wrote:
I didnt want to start a new thread for this..but does anyone else think that perhaps the Comedian and Sally's second meeting was just a one night stand for him? Becuase theres not really any evidence that he deeply cared for Sally or Laurie. And the only time he meets Laurie are kind of coincidence; he doesnt seek her out to talk to her in any way really. Just wondering what anyone else thought of this?

That is entirely possible. For me, the only thing from the book that implied he might have felt something for Sally beyond simple lust was when Laurie was remembering when she met him for the first time, and Sally pulled Laurie away from him and she had her little rant at the Comedian, Laurie remembered looking out the back window as he watched them drive away and she noted that he looked sad, as though her mother's words had hurt him in some way.

Some may argue that the somber look on the Comedian's face in the flashback to the 1973 when he says "Only once" to Laurie when she confronts him about sexually assaulting her mother may be another indicator that he might have felt something beyond lust for Sally.

And then you have the whole question - why would Sally retain a life long infatuation with the Comedian after what he did? Did he, in some weird way, fit her ideal of what she wanted in a man? Or is it pointless to try and rationalize why when the whole point may very well be that it's not supposed to make sense, and that very senselessness is why Laurie's existence strikes Dr. Manhattan as a miracle?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:04 am 
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IMO, I think the real reason he seemed sad at the Crime Busters meeting was probably because he just wanted the chance to talk to his daughter for the first time really. And the flashback to 1973, I think he knows what he did was wrong, but it still doesnt seem that much beyond lust.

Quote:
And then you have the whole question - why would Sally retain a life long infatuation with the Comedian after what he did? Did he, in some weird way, fit her ideal of what she wanted in a man? Or is it pointless to try and rationalize why when the whole point may very well be that it's not supposed to make sense, and that very senselessness is why Laurie's existence strikes Dr. Manhattan as a miracle?

I think undoubtedly for whatever reason, she was in love with him, because as she says when defending her actions to Larry, that he was gentle, so Im sure she fell for him, not to mention hes the father of her child. I think as someone pointed out, she may have wanted to change him, and make him settle down. I dont know...he just doesnt seem that sentimental regarding either of them.. Unlike Sally, who is blatantly in love with him.
:|
I wish I was more comprehensive in my thoughts..:/


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:42 am 
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ohericuh wrote:
I think undoubtedly for whatever reason, she was in love with him, because as she says when defending her actions to Larry, that he was gentle, so Im sure she fell for him, not to mention hes the father of her child.


I think the Comedian’s as messed up emotionally as the other characters. He makes ham-fisted attempts at paternal affection towards Laurie, worries about Jon losing interest in her as he drifts out of touch, he keeps the Minutemen photo from the day he was expelled. He has plenty of emotions, but he hides his feelings under a wall of macho aggression. To break through that must have felt like an achievement to Sally, especially next to the manipulative Schexnayder.

Also, perhaps it was more comforting for her to believe (rightly or wrongly) that his attempted rape was misplaced affection, rather than a consequence of her sexual provocation? Regardless of the truth, it would let he put a revisionist slant on what happened. That would explain her subsequent mixed emotions about him – had she got through to him, or had she been taken for a fool? With Eddie dead, she’s free to remember him however she sees fit…

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:04 am 
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Oh, I mean, of course he has some misguided paternal affections/worries, but I dont think anything much for Sally. I think youre right about her changing the story to fit her ideas of what happened after he died though. It seems she has something for guys that are either controlling, or aggesive/whatever. Hmm..


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:02 pm 
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I got the impression that Blake cared about Sally, actually. I mean, there's the pin-up of her on his wall, the old photos, and the fact that he showed up at her place at all (which of course resulted in Laurie's conception). And it's obvious he's interested in Laurie's life (he keeps newspaper clippings and photos of her!).

He probably just has very little idea of how to relate to people (especially women) without bullying or violence or a bunch of macho bravado. And he's so fucked up that he's certainly marriage/fatherhood material, even if he didn't sleep around. I think he realizes that himself.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:49 pm 
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Circusdog wrote:
I got the impression that Blake cared about Sally, actually. I mean, there's the pin-up of her on his wall, the old photos, and the fact that he showed up at her place at all (which of course resulted in Laurie's conception). And it's obvious he's interested in Laurie's life (he keeps newspaper clippings and photos of her!).

He probably just has very little idea of how to relate to people (especially women) without bullying or violence or a bunch of macho bravado. And he's so fucked up that he's certainly marriage/fatherhood material, even if he didn't sleep around. I think he realizes that himself.

You know I was going through the book last night and didn't see any pictures of Sally or Laurie in his apartment during the flashbacks to his death scene, though there is a pin up in his apartment, it's definitely not of Sally. I think the filmmakers added the pics of Sally & Laurie to his apartment for the film. You'll also notice in the film his cigarette lighter has Sally's image on it, but his lighter in the book is devoid of any distinct markings.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:55 pm 
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JT Marsh wrote:
Circusdog wrote:
I got the impression that Blake cared about Sally, actually. I mean, there's the pin-up of her on his wall, the old photos, and the fact that he showed up at her place at all (which of course resulted in Laurie's conception). And it's obvious he's interested in Laurie's life (he keeps newspaper clippings and photos of her!).

He probably just has very little idea of how to relate to people (especially women) without bullying or violence or a bunch of macho bravado. And he's so fucked up that he's certainly marriage/fatherhood material, even if he didn't sleep around. I think he realizes that himself.

You know I was going through the book last night and didn't see any pictures of Sally or Laurie in his apartment during the flashbacks to his death scene, though there is a pin up in his apartment, it's definitely not of Sally. I think the filmmakers added the pics of Sally & Laurie to his apartment for the film. You'll also notice in the film his cigarette lighter has Sally's image on it, but his lighter in the book is devoid of any distinct markings.

I'm sure I saw clippings/photos of Laurie in the novel too. I don't have the book right here to check, but I thought it was in the secret compartment in the closet, with his costume?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:06 pm 
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YES THANK YOU JT MARSH!
This is why I think he didnt really seem to care so much. Whenever I reread the GN I always notice the absence of her presence in his apartment, but the over presence of him in her house. In the comic, in his secret closet, he has his costume,guns,knives, etc., and the Minutemen photo. I just checked again, and there arent really any specific photos of Sally, just a random pin up I suppose.
Although they certainly played this up in the movie, with the photos of Laurie and Sally in his apartment, and on his lighter.

On an unrelated note, I LOVED that lighter in the movie!! I wish they were selling that! Ahaha!


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