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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:06 pm 
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I think "fascinatingly ugly" is an appropriate (if very blunt) description, all things considered. Not that he's hideous, but the guy does have the kind of face that you would call "interesting" if you wanted to be polite. He's a funny-lookin' guy.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:22 pm 
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Before I saw the movie or knew a single thing about Watchmen (other than the first trailer I saw in a theater way back whenever, before I knew there was a GN), I saw a still of Walter Kovacs, and he was NOT attractive. After seeing the film and pulling probably the fasted noob-to-knowing-obsessive-details job probably in WM history, I've got a soft spot for the character and don't see him as ugly anymore. I actually pity him.

By conventional standards, he is extremely unattractive. But as a character we know and feel something for, suddenly his looks don't matter so much, so he loses his ability to repulse us. How many of us actively think, "Damn, my friend is uuuuugly!" Sure, there may be the occasional friend who seriously is and we notice, but for the most part, we don't tend to sit there thinking about how ugly our friends are because we notice their good qualities and features first.

I suspect this is what happens with Walter. He's familiar to us, we may even have friend feelings about him, so he's not exactly ugly or unattractive because his looks cease to matter so much.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:43 pm 
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I thought Walter Kovacs looked more handsome and heroic right after the prison break.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:43 pm 
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Well, I can say from personal experience that I've known far uglier people, inside and out. (was married to one of those once.) Walter never struck me as particularly ugly. In the book he seemed like an average guy to me. In the movie, he was more attractive, though it was apparent that he was haggard and didn't really take care of himself. Remember, this guy probably sleeps on the floor, if he sleeps much at all, is constantly getting banged around, is up at odd hours and doesn't eat right. None of us is going to look all that great after that!

It's not how someone just looks too there's the way they carry themselves. They say that Cleopatra was really a very plain looking woman, but her charisma was irresistable. Rorschach is a very charismatic type of character, and therein lies a lot of his appeal, at least for me.

I also consider the source here. A lot of if not all the "fascinatingly ugly" remarks come from Dr. Long, who by most people's standards, isn't all that attractive himself. But he's a guy who is over indulgent and complacently comfortable and therefore probably feels like he's better than some. Beautiful wife, good job, maybe a sense of entitlement. And he finds something out of that range pretty ugly. It was interesting to also see him turn from someone like that to someone who sympathises a little more with the people he was trying to help.

Ack, too much thinky just before bedtime!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:33 am 
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Quote:
I think "fascinatingly ugly" is an appropriate (if very blunt) description, all things considered. Not that he's hideous, but the guy does have the kind of face that you would call "interesting" if you wanted to be polite. He's a funny-lookin' guy.

i never thought he was ugly. even before we knew the Prophet was Rorschach. it is interesting that he is described as being ugly so often and isn't really presented that way. it's one of the things that perplexed me about the book. not a big point i guess, but all the same.

btw, what's this in the OP about Tim Spall???? SO NOT UGLY. :x

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:18 pm 
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B.) there was mention on another thread here about Kovacs' middle name, Joseph. We all know how common it is in everday speech, average joe being one of them.

So, my theory: Average joe = Walter Joseph Kovacs.


If he's from Polish decent wouldn't it be pronounced 'Yow-seff'?

This is a really intresting thread.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:54 pm 
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W J Kovacs wrote:
Quote:
B.) there was mention on another thread here about Kovacs' middle name, Joseph. We all know how common it is in everday speech, average joe being one of them.

So, my theory: Average joe = Walter Joseph Kovacs.


If he's from Polish decent wouldn't it be pronounced 'Yow-seff'?

This is a really intresting thread.
']['


Probably, but since he's living in America it's probably the Americanized pronouciation. I mean aren't the Ws and Vs pronounced different there too? "Valter Yow-seff Kowaks" I could be wrong though.

I agree, an interesting thread. :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:49 pm 
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W J Kovacs wrote:
Quote:
B.) there was mention on another thread here about Kovacs' middle name, Joseph. We all know how common it is in everday speech, average joe being one of them.

So, my theory: Average joe = Walter Joseph Kovacs.


If he's from Polish decent wouldn't it be pronounced 'Yow-seff'?

This is a really intresting thread.


']['




Isn't Kovacs a Ukranian last name?


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:16 pm 
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Mss.Kovacs wrote:
W J Kovacs wrote:
Quote:
B.) there was mention on another thread here about Kovacs' middle name, Joseph. We all know how common it is in everday speech, average joe being one of them.

So, my theory: Average joe = Walter Joseph Kovacs.


If he's from Polish decent wouldn't it be pronounced 'Yow-seff'?

This is a really intresting thread.


']['




Isn't Kovacs a Ukranian last name?


Pretty sure it's Hungarian.


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:29 pm 
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Real Life Rorschach wrote:
Rorschach has average to poor looks. No real flaws nor any great features. While he is definetly not the everyman of the story (Nite Owl is) his image is to state that he is no god-like superbeing. Moore, who loves Veidt is trying to make the reader be sympathetic to Veidt's good looks and automatically view good things about his aryan persona. Moore, who hates Rorschach tried to make him ugly since he didnt want the reader to like him.
But the real trick is this...who found out who Rorschach was before he was unmasked? I did...but I did it in the pages leading up to it. For the longest time I thought that the sign dude was a villian...but no hes the hero!


Not me! I was so slow. In fact, I don't think I even figured this out at all until Chapter 6, back when that issue originally came out. The crazed, bizarrely colored, frenzied Kovacs of the last panels of Chapter 5 just didn't register with me as the crazy end-of-the-world prophet seen earlier. I thought at the time it was the first we'd seen of the true Rorschach secret identity. I was totally fooled and it lasted for me until well after it had been revealed! D'oh!!

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:55 am 
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Kovaks is way to short and easily pronounced/spelt to me TRUELY polish. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:13 am 
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This sums up how I feel about Walter pretty well.

Image

I never thought he was ugly. To start with I have a thing for redheads, ginger and freckles.

I guess most of the population would say he's ugly or plain at best.
He is the least attractive of the Masks objectively speaking but I think he's cute.
He looks fragile and a little helpless. I think it's a good thing he wears the mask actually. He's not very intimidating to look at. I think people would laugh at him of he tried to face them down. At least at first...

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 6:49 am 
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Minutemarch wrote:
This sums up how I feel about Walter pretty well.

Image


Those are some fucking precious gloves, though....

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Julie wrote:
Minutemarch wrote:
This sums up how I feel about Walter pretty well.

Image


Those are some fucking precious gloves, though....


Oh yes, the Tiny'schach. You can have the gloves, Julie, I'll take the man!

I think the character of Kovacs was created to look average in appearnce so people would have no idea who he really was. Doc M is a bit of a dead giveaway, Viedt is a media whore, Laurie is perfectly fine with shedding her superhero identity, Dan seems to go into nostalga for the old days and the Comedian is dead. Walter Kovacs was the only one no one ever suspected of being anything but a dirty little hobo.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:38 pm 
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Phoenix wrote:
On more than one occasion in the section of the book devoted to Walter Kovac's early life and sojourn in prison, he is described as being 'ugly', 'fascinatingly ugly' by Malcolm, and his appearance, as hinted at by Kovacs later, is a factor behind his comfort in using a mask, and part of the reason he's presumably adopted the resort of a somewhat blank attitude toward sex. He describes his mask as something "he can bear to look at in the mirror". However, exactly how unnatractive, by normal standards of the word, is Kovacs? Dead on average to look at except with a few interesting characteristics, his only real physical problem is his recurrently referenced bad hygiene and possibly pathologically bad smell. And he doesn't do himself much favours with his horrible eating habits, noisily munching on cold beans and raw eggs. Droopy eyes and slightly slack skin, but not exactly a contender with Shane MacGowan and Timothy Spall.

This brings me to my query (and don't worry, I'm not assuming this thread will survive for much distance). If Moore and Gibbons had wanted to make Kovacs actually spot on ugly, they could have done more with his physiognomy than just make him look a bit old (but not for his age - he's 45) and give him some freckles and spiky red hair. Since he's the only character I've noticed with bright red, as opposed to orange, hair, this gives him a bit of a difference, which may have been a cause for his being disliked in his childhood: but many people find red hair attractive, so it's a bit of a specious point.

Can anyone think of a valid reason why his supposed ugliness is mentioned quite a few times, and is doubtlessly a factor in the makeup of his own psychology, when Moore and Gibbons could have easily actually made him that way, instead of depicting him in the artwork as a physically average but not especially unattractive man?


Well as for why he said the mask is what he feels okay with looking at in the mirror....I don't know if it's because he sees himself as ugly. I always felt like it was because he thinks all humans are flawed(including himself) and doesn't want to look at a human face in the mirror. I don't know.

I don't really think he's ugly. I guess it seems like most people do though.

And yeah I don't think red hair is unattractive....my mom is a redhead(and one of those ones with really red hair instead of a more orange colour like some other redheads). I know that sometimes she got carrot top when she was little.

Redheads do stand out more because it's the rarest natural hair colour. And as a kid standing out is sometimes kind of bad because people make fun of anything that's different compared to the 'norm' as they call it. I was born with a birthmark on my face for example and people always made fun of me even though I don't personally think it looks bad, just different.

It's true that he might be a bit insecure, since he's been called ugly so many times obviously.

I guess him being short is also considered to be unattractive for a male. Height in males is always looked upon as being attractive and a good thing.

Eh....my boyfriend is actually shorter than me. He's about the same height as Rorschach actually. I don't care that he's shorter than me. It's weird how people always expect the guy to be taller though. -_-

DogWithHeadSplitOpen wrote:
I don't think he drinks alcohol at all! I think, to him, alcohol is a vice, with the same addictive properties as drugs and sex, which he abhors. We do know he drinks coffee. He stole a cup of coffee from Dan's apartment and he actually BOUGHT a cup at Gunga Diner while waiting for Moloch's message.


I don't think he hates sex.....I just think he hates the degrading kind of sex like people having sex for money and stuff like that.

That said though, I do think he's a virgin. He's very anti-social and the kind of person who'd probably only do that with someone if he loved them and got close to them over a long period of time. And it'd be pretty hard for him to feel that way about anyone since it's hard for him to even consider anyone a friend. I doubt many females would even try to bother with him.

But at least sex is natural unlike drugs and alcohol. Without sex humans wouldn't even exist. XD

There was a part in the comic where Rorshach seems to know what Nite Owl and Silk Spectre are doing at Adrien's because Rorschach's ink blot on his face seems to go into a similar shape as the one in the psychological test that reminded him of his mom having sex with that guy for money....except that this time the figures in the ink blot are 'closer' together, like it's not disgusting sex for money but intimate loving sex. I mean sex is one of those things that can both be considered very nasty like how really moral people would consider porn, prostitutes, etc......but moral people also consider sex to be very beautiful when it's between 2 people who love each other.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:54 am 
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Raine Summerfly wrote:
DogWithHeadSplitOpen wrote:
I don't think he drinks alcohol at all! I think, to him, alcohol is a vice, with the same addictive properties as drugs and sex, which he abhors. We do know he drinks coffee. He stole a cup of coffee from Dan's apartment and he actually BOUGHT a cup at Gunga Diner while waiting for Moloch's message.


I don't think he hates sex.....I just think he hates the degrading kind of sex like people having sex for money and stuff like that.



To Rorschach's warped way of thinking, sex as an act of love and a career are the same thing. I'll even go so far as to say his ideas on sex are almost identical to St. Paul's: desire for the flesh makes one weak, chastity equals strength. Rorschach says he considered lust, and basically any emotion outside his drive for 'justice' to be a weakness, something that would kill him.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 7:19 pm 
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Lady_Rorschach wrote:
Raine Summerfly wrote:
DogWithHeadSplitOpen wrote:
I don't think he drinks alcohol at all! I think, to him, alcohol is a vice, with the same addictive properties as drugs and sex, which he abhors. We do know he drinks coffee. He stole a cup of coffee from Dan's apartment and he actually BOUGHT a cup at Gunga Diner while waiting for Moloch's message.


I don't think he hates sex.....I just think he hates the degrading kind of sex like people having sex for money and stuff like that.



To Rorschach's warped way of thinking, sex as an act of love and a career are the same thing. I'll even go so far as to say his ideas on sex are almost identical to St. Paul's: desire for the flesh makes one weak, chastity equals strength. Rorschach says he considered lust, and basically any emotion outside his drive for 'justice' to be a weakness, something that would kill him.


Hmm...but I wonder if he could actually prevent himself from having those feelings if someone really liked him and cared about him.

I just wonder what he'd say to a girl if she really loved him.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:29 pm 
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Raine Summerfly wrote:
Lady_Rorschach wrote:
Raine Summerfly wrote:
DogWithHeadSplitOpen wrote:
I don't think he drinks alcohol at all! I think, to him, alcohol is a vice, with the same addictive properties as drugs and sex, which he abhors. We do know he drinks coffee. He stole a cup of coffee from Dan's apartment and he actually BOUGHT a cup at Gunga Diner while waiting for Moloch's message.


I don't think he hates sex.....I just think he hates the degrading kind of sex like people having sex for money and stuff like that.



To Rorschach's warped way of thinking, sex as an act of love and a career are the same thing. I'll even go so far as to say his ideas on sex are almost identical to St. Paul's: desire for the flesh makes one weak, chastity equals strength. Rorschach says he considered lust, and basically any emotion outside his drive for 'justice' to be a weakness, something that would kill him.


Hmm...but I wonder if he could actually prevent himself from having those feelings if someone really liked him and cared about him.

I just wonder what he'd say to a girl if she really loved him.


He'd never allow that to happen. If it did somehow occur, he'd backhand her, call her a whore and run.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:12 pm 
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Lady_Rorschach wrote:
Raine Summerfly wrote:
Lady_Rorschach wrote:
Raine Summerfly wrote:
DogWithHeadSplitOpen wrote:
I don't think he drinks alcohol at all! I think, to him, alcohol is a vice, with the same addictive properties as drugs and sex, which he abhors. We do know he drinks coffee. He stole a cup of coffee from Dan's apartment and he actually BOUGHT a cup at Gunga Diner while waiting for Moloch's message.


I don't think he hates sex.....I just think he hates the degrading kind of sex like people having sex for money and stuff like that.



To Rorschach's warped way of thinking, sex as an act of love and a career are the same thing. I'll even go so far as to say his ideas on sex are almost identical to St. Paul's: desire for the flesh makes one weak, chastity equals strength. Rorschach says he considered lust, and basically any emotion outside his drive for 'justice' to be a weakness, something that would kill him.


Hmm...but I wonder if he could actually prevent himself from having those feelings if someone really liked him and cared about him.

I just wonder what he'd say to a girl if she really loved him.


He'd never allow that to happen. If it did somehow occur, he'd backhand her, call her a whore and run.


Well for someone to actually love him she'd probably have to know him really well....and I don't see him just calling her a whore in that case. However I do admit that it's unlikely that he'd let someone develop really strong feelings for him since he'd probably distance himself enough that the woman could never end up in love with him.

Anyway, he did consider Dan a friend so I do think there's a slight chance he could form a relationship with someone, especially if the person agrees with his morals and will fight crime with him.

I guess it's kind of hard to know exactly what would happen in that situation.

LOL....I think maybe I just like to have my fantasies. XD

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:47 am 
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Hey, just wondering but do you guys think Rorschach cares about his physical appearance?

I mean I was just reading the comic...and when the police caught Rorschach, they commented on how he had padding in his shoes to make him a bit taller or something. And apparently one of the items Rorschach had on him was colonge.

So does he care what he looks like? I wonder why he cares. XD

Sorry for double posting by the way although I feel that if I just edited my old post, people probably wouldn't notice that I added something. LOL.

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