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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach "Unmasked"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:57 am 
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Thermodynamic Miracle
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Well, I see them as the same person. I just see Rorschach being Walter's safety cover he can hide behind, both literally and emotionally. If Rorschach didn't have Walter's conscience then he wouldn't have been 'forgiving' of Moloch's illegal meds or held back just killing anyone that gets in his way. The whole, "I'm Rorschach, I've ceased to be Walter" I don't know, the whole way he operates is directly influenced by Walter's experiences.

I think if I was that damaged I would have wanted to stop being Walter too. Hell, there are times when I wanted to be someone else in my life. (It's a long story that I won't go into though). I think of them as the same person, just layered, actually. Gosh it's hard to explain! LOL. But I do like what you said about he's an M&M, LOL.


Hehehe, if you bit down in him he crunches...

I get what you are saying and I agree with you (and, yes, it is hard to express!)

I think Walter is the moderating influence, the reason Rorschach seems to be a contradiction. Rorschach is black and white, except for this bit here, and this scene here.
Those bits when he wavers, leaves things be, changes his mind, I think that's Walter.

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he’s still Kovacs underneath, just hiding behind a fictitious persona to distance himself from the horrors he encounters and exacts. What once was something empowering has now become essential: he's trapped pretending to be Rorschach all the time, now, whether in costume or not. But he’s still Kovaks underneath.


That's what I think too. It's clear Walter invented Rorschach for a couple of reasons. To allow him to hide his identity while he performed his vigilante duties and, also, as a buffer between himself and what he had to do. I think that buffer became more necessary and powerful after the Blaire Roche case. After he stared to kill and started to see things horrible enough he felt he needed that buffer (Rorschach) more.

By the end, though, Rorschach had served his purpose and in those last moments he just didn't need him anymore.

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He gets less Rorschach-like as the story reaches its end. He’s as civil as he can be when Dan and Laurie rescue him.

Rorschach and Dan always seem to have had an effective working relationship but his changed attitude to Laurie speaks volumes and I LOVE the bit where he thanks Dan.
It's Walter who appreciates being treated like an equal, a person. Rorschach doesn't care about that.

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In his final moments, did Kovacs finally (ironically) make a choice he could live with?


Yes. I don't think he could ever make any other sort of decision than one he could live with.
His integrity is at his essence (both as Rorschach and Walter. After all, there is a lot of Walter in Rorschach of course). I also think your speculations about his future are accurate.
A future full of lies? A future full of pretense? Oh, there is no way he could ever be a part of that.

He may not have been able to stop Veidt but there was no way he was letting him win a victory of him. Rorschach kept his integrity, his truth and his freedom. In the end Veidt and Hatty could take nothing away from him but his life.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach "Unmasked"
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:13 pm 
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I can't add anything to this terrific exchange, but I don't want to let it pass without applause. These are some extremely thoughtful and heartfelt posts. I have got to cheer from the sidelines. You all have stolen any words from MY mouth.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach "Unmasked"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:57 pm 
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In the end Veidt and Hatty could take nothing away from him but his life.


"In the end?" Nothing ends MinuteMarh. Nothing ever ends.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach "Unmasked"
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:24 am 
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IanM626 wrote:
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In the end Veidt and Hatty could take nothing away from him but his life.


"In the end?" Nothing ends MinuteMarh. Nothing ever ends.


Well said.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach "Unmasked"
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:46 am 
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You know in the comic....when he says this:

"My things were where I'd left them. Waiting for me. Putting them on, I abandoned my disguise and became myself, free from fear or weakness or lust."

Does that mean that when he's being Walter he has lustful feelings and such?

Actually I do find it hard to believe how anyone can't have lustful feelings. XD And there's nothing wrong with them....self control is more the answer.

Anyway, I still don't really know what to think about the whole "Walter is dead and now there is only Rorschach." thing. Why did he rip off his mask at the end when he told Dr. Manhattan to kill him? It was like he was admiting that he's still Walter or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach "Unmasked"
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:05 am 
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Raine Summerfly wrote:
"My things were where I'd left them. Waiting for me. Putting them on, I abandoned my disguise and became myself, free from fear or weakness or lust."

Does that mean that when he's being Walter he has lustful feelings and such?

Or maybe he sees his costume as a kind of armor. A means of defending himself and destroying those intangible evils.

Raine Summerfly wrote:
Why did he rip off his mask at the end when he told Dr. Manhattan to kill him? It was like he was admiting that he's still Walter or something.

Not even Alan Moore himself can provide a definitive answer for that one. Though if my "armor" hypothesis holds, it could be that Rorschach was blowing his moral defenses to the wind. His way of kneeling before the guillotine, so to speak.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach "Unmasked"
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:09 am 
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Does Alan Moore ever answer questions about his characters?

It's so complicated that it's like it's hard to ever actually know....it's like we could all speculate a bunch of different reasons and any of them could potentially be the right answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach "Unmasked"
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:20 am 
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Raine Summerfly wrote:
Does Alan Moore ever answer questions about his characters?

It's not often he answers questions at all. He certainly wouldn't answer any about Watchmen. Not anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Rorschach "Unmasked"
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Raine Summerfly wrote:
Does Alan Moore ever answer questions about his characters?

It's not often he answers questions at all. He certainly wouldn't answer any about Watchmen. Not anymore.


Why though?

I don't really know the whole backstory on this Alan Moore stuff since I am a newer fan to Watchmen.

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