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Superman in Chapter 1
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Author:  Sun-chained-in-ink [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Superman in Chapter 1

I can't believe I just now noticed this, and please forgive me if this has been brought up before. In Chapter 1, On Page 19, panel 1, there is a shield on the Rockefeller Military Research Center sign, to the left of "military research." I looked closely at it, and it appears as though the Superman S is drawn in there. As we all know, Superman's chest emblem was literally a shield with an S in it in his old formative days, and even to this day, Supes' emblem is still referred to as a "shield." Am I freaking out, or is this something anyone else can see?

Author:  Curiosity Inc. [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

No, it's really there. They even included it in the movie.

What's more interesting to me is that it doesn't look exactly like the Superman shield. Rather, it almost looks like a grenade. I personally find this symbolic of Dr. Manhattan: In overly basic terms, he's Superman turned into a weapon for Uncle Sam.

EDIT: While the subject has indeed been mentioned in other topics, I can't seem to find a thread devoted to it specifically. If you guys want to talk about it in greater detail, feel free.

Author:  Sun-chained-in-ink [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

I'm glad it's not just me.

Author:  WJK [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

if you notice, in the film they burn a superman dummy during the police strike riots.

Author:  The Guard [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

It's a Superman shield inside an atom bomb. And it's very cool.

Author:  Lady_Rorschach [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

There are a lot of Superman jabs concerning Dr. Manhattan in the GN, aren't there? I don't have my copy with me, but wasn't there a line, I'm paraphrasing here: "Superman exists and he's American"?

Author:  Mister Pain [ Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

Indeed, though this line refers to the Nietzsche's idea of the ubermensch, or superman, and it's connotations. This is where Siegel and Schuster most likely got their comic book character's name from.

Author:  emFox [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

Interesting thing is, while Siegel and Schuster appropriated the term "supeman" for their superhero creation, they essentially misinterpreted the concept of Nietzsche's ubermensch. The Ubermensch creates his own code of morality that is free from past ethics, a code of morality that he lives by. The character of Superman, however, embodies the sense of morality that the society has taken for years, fueled by a stressed importance in an afterlife and not in life on Earth.

You could apply this to Watchmen with the (possibly deliberate) misquotation of Dr. Glass when they say "the superman exists, and he's American!" Instead, Glass said, obviously, "God exists, and He's American." When nick-naming Dr. Manhattan, instead of misrepresenting Nietzsche, they misrepresent God.

Author:  Curiosity Inc. [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

That's a very impressive first post, emFox. I hope you kick up your heels and stay a while.

Though there's one part of the post I hope you can clarify:

emFox wrote:
The character of Superman, however, embodies the sense of morality that the society has taken for years, fueled by a stressed importance in an afterlife and not in life on Earth.

What has the afterlife ever had to do with Superman? Hell, what does it have to do with Dr. Manhattan, who is near-immortal?

Author:  Janx [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

Curiosity Inc. wrote:
What has the afterlife ever had to do with Superman? Hell, what does it have to do with Dr. Manhattan, who is near-immortal?


Well...Dr. Manhattan is Jon Osterman's afterlife, really...

Author:  Curiosity Inc. [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

Janx wrote:
Curiosity Inc. wrote:
What has the afterlife ever had to do with Superman? Hell, what does it have to do with Dr. Manhattan, who is near-immortal?


Well...Dr. Manhattan is Jon Osterman's afterlife, really...

A fascinating interpretation, but I'd say that he's more like Osterman's rebirth.

Author:  Mister Pain [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

emFox wrote:
Interesting thing is, while Siegel and Schuster appropriated the term "supeman" for their superhero creation, they essentially misinterpreted the concept of Nietzsche's ubermensch. The Ubermensch creates his own code of morality that is free from past ethics, a code of morality that he lives by. The character of Superman, however, embodies the sense of morality that the society has taken for years, fueled by a stressed importance in an afterlife and not in life on Earth.

You could apply this to Watchmen with the (possibly deliberate) misquotation of Dr. Glass when they say "the superman exists, and he's American!" Instead, Glass said, obviously, "God exists, and He's American." When nick-naming Dr. Manhattan, instead of misrepresenting Nietzsche, they misrepresent God.


I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than I on the topic of philosophy would chime in there. Thanks, emP... sorry, I mean emFox.
8-)

Author:  Captain Axis [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Superman in Chapter 1

Curiosity Inc. wrote:
emFox wrote:
The character of Superman, however, embodies the sense of morality that the society has taken for years, fueled by a stressed importance in an afterlife and not in life on Earth.

What has the afterlife ever had to do with Superman? Hell, what does it have to do with Dr. Manhattan, who is near-immortal?

I interpreted emFox's statement to mean that society's sense of morality is fueled by the Christian belief in an afterlife. You know, denying yourself pleasure and treating others right in preparation for your eventual ascent to heaven. I had an argument with a woman who claimed that we need religion back in mainstream society because otherwise people won't do the right thing. Sadly, it looks like she may have been correct.

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