WatchmenComicMovie.com Forum


Talk about the Watchmen comic book mini-series and film
It is currently Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:35 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:27 am 
Offline
Government-Sponsored Weirdo
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:39 am
Posts: 7191
Location: Everywhere, Everywhen, UK.
Smutty wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Une Fille Attriste wrote:
It Is necessary to feel extreme passion, pleasure or re´morse or sexual perversities in order to officially be a serial killer.

If you are in the mob and you happn to kill people like flies you still are not a f serial killer.
You are just a messed up killer.

If killer-superheroes are serial killers, why aren't the mob?

It's a more or less same situation.

They aren't passionate....it\s just a job like any other.
Only ones do it for money and the other ones for....other reasons.

They don't feel too passionate about it, mostly.
What do you think about suppervillains?

You're dead wrong if you think Rorschach isn't passionate about what he does.

He kills for psychological gratification. That's what makes a serial killer.


he's passionate about what he does, but it's not the killing that gives him the gratification, it's the knowledge that he's taken someone that he considers to be bad out of the world. it's no different than an exterminator taking pride in wiping out a rat infestation, that doesn't make an exterminator a sicko.
someone that finds a rat trapped and decides to slit it's throat to watch the blood run out is a sicko, and statistically he's killed a lot less rats.


You're a pretty scary dude, AvatarIII.


no scarier than this thread's subject matter, right? :? i hope i haven't gazed too deeply into the abyss.

_________________
We're all actors, Laurie. I'm just an actor who read the script. :?
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:32 am 
Offline
I don't think there is a god. And if there is I'm nothing like him.
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:26 pm
Posts: 5380
Location: Knee Deep in the Dead
Smutty wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Une Fille Attriste wrote:
It Is necessary to feel extreme passion, pleasure or re´morse or sexual perversities in order to officially be a serial killer.

If you are in the mob and you happn to kill people like flies you still are not a f serial killer.
You are just a messed up killer.

If killer-superheroes are serial killers, why aren't the mob?

It's a more or less same situation.

They aren't passionate....it\s just a job like any other.
Only ones do it for money and the other ones for....other reasons.

They don't feel too passionate about it, mostly.
What do you think about suppervillains?

You're dead wrong if you think Rorschach isn't passionate about what he does.

He kills for psychological gratification. That's what makes a serial killer.


he's passionate about what he does, but it's not the killing that gives him the gratification, it's the knowledge that he's taken someone that he considers to be bad out of the world. it's no different than an exterminator taking pride in wiping out a rat infestation, that doesn't make an exterminator a sicko.
someone that finds a rat trapped and decides to slit it's throat to watch the blood run out is a sicko, and statistically he's killed a lot less rats.


You're a pretty scary dude, AvatarIII.
and you uh... just realized this?
joking joking... i just had to :D

_________________
My Blog of Movie Reviews and Such
Image
I'll be right back. I gotta go see a man about a mule.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:59 am 
Offline
Labored long to build a heaven.
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 12480
Location: Monster Island (Really New York)
AvatarIII wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Une Fille Attriste wrote:
It Is necessary to feel extreme passion, pleasure or re´morse or sexual perversities in order to officially be a serial killer.

If you are in the mob and you happn to kill people like flies you still are not a f serial killer.
You are just a messed up killer.

If killer-superheroes are serial killers, why aren't the mob?

It's a more or less same situation.

They aren't passionate....it\s just a job like any other.
Only ones do it for money and the other ones for....other reasons.

They don't feel too passionate about it, mostly.
What do you think about suppervillains?

You're dead wrong if you think Rorschach isn't passionate about what he does.

He kills for psychological gratification. That's what makes a serial killer.


he's passionate about what he does, but it's not the killing that gives him the gratification, it's the knowledge that he's taken someone that he considers to be bad out of the world. it's no different than an exterminator taking pride in wiping out a rat infestation, that doesn't make an exterminator a sicko.
someone that finds a rat trapped and decides to slit it's throat to watch the blood run out is a sicko, and statistically he's killed a lot less rats.

I know that this is a fictional example, but you could use the same argument for John Doe from Se7en. He might not actually like the act of killing people, but he likes taking what he sees as sin out of the world and making an example. Guy's still a serial killer.

And this is beside the point, but Rorschach may actually be a spree killer. The definitions are kind of unclear.

_________________
"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part.
Image
"There's a cello in your house now."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:03 pm 
Offline
Government-Sponsored Weirdo
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:39 am
Posts: 7191
Location: Everywhere, Everywhen, UK.
Godziller66 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Une Fille Attriste wrote:
It Is necessary to feel extreme passion, pleasure or re´morse or sexual perversities in order to officially be a serial killer.

If you are in the mob and you happn to kill people like flies you still are not a f serial killer.
You are just a messed up killer.

If killer-superheroes are serial killers, why aren't the mob?

It's a more or less same situation.

They aren't passionate....it\s just a job like any other.
Only ones do it for money and the other ones for....other reasons.

They don't feel too passionate about it, mostly.
What do you think about suppervillains?

You're dead wrong if you think Rorschach isn't passionate about what he does.

He kills for psychological gratification. That's what makes a serial killer.


he's passionate about what he does, but it's not the killing that gives him the gratification, it's the knowledge that he's taken someone that he considers to be bad out of the world. it's no different than an exterminator taking pride in wiping out a rat infestation, that doesn't make an exterminator a sicko.
someone that finds a rat trapped and decides to slit it's throat to watch the blood run out is a sicko, and statistically he's killed a lot less rats.

I know that this is a fictional example, but you could use the same argument for John Doe from Se7en. He might not actually like the act of killing people, but he likes taking what he sees as sin out of the world and making an example. Guy's still a serial killer.

And this is beside the point, but Rorschach may actually be a spree killer. The definitions are kind of unclear.


yeah i suppose you are right, doe's methods are more torturous than Rorschach's but yeah you could argue that doe and rors are killers in the same way.

_________________
We're all actors, Laurie. I'm just an actor who read the script. :?
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:52 pm 
Offline
Crimebuster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:04 am
Posts: 47
Location: Whitecity,Belgrade<3
AvatarIII wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Une Fille Attriste wrote:
It Is necessary to feel extreme passion, pleasure or re´morse or sexual perversities in order to officially be a serial killer.

If you are in the mob and you happn to kill people like flies you still are not a f serial killer.
You are just a messed up killer.

If killer-superheroes are serial killers, why aren't the mob?

It's a more or less same situation.

They aren't passionate....it\s just a job like any other.
Only ones do it for money and the other ones for....other reasons.

They don't feel too passionate about it, mostly.
What do you think about suppervillains?

You're dead wrong if you think Rorschach isn't passionate about what he does.

He kills for psychological gratification. That's what makes a serial killer.


he's passionate about what he does, but it's not the killing that gives him the gratification, it's the knowledge that he's taken someone that he considers to be bad out of the world. it's no different than an exterminator taking pride in wiping out a rat infestation, that doesn't make an exterminator a sicko.
someone that finds a rat trapped and decides to slit it's throat to watch the blood run out is a sicko, and statistically he's killed a lot less rats.

I know that this is a fictional example, but you could use the same argument for John Doe from Se7en. He might not actually like the act of killing people, but he likes taking what he sees as sin out of the world and making an example. Guy's still a serial killer.

And this is beside the point, but Rorschach may actually be a spree killer. The definitions are kind of unclear.


yeah i suppose you are right, doe's methods are more torturous than Rorschach's but yeah you could argue that doe and rors are killers in the same way.



You are a hell of a svary guy here :)))))))

But still, Rorschach can't compare to Doe guy.
The endong proves it.
He had no reason to kill Gwynet Paltrow.....only to cause rage in another person.....whom he felt espetially passionate about.
Doe is a f****** sonofabitch.....he is also sadistic.
It brings him pleasure to hurt, he is glad about owr mistakes and sicknesses.
The ending proves it.
The killing is Why he took the job.

Not so with Rorschach.

He is not sadistic or insane.
He's doing this because he is good at it and because ofhis unusual morality and nobleness.
He can\t go buy a nice car and be haoppy when everybody else is miserable.
So he does the only thing he can.
Kills off the bad guys.

So are The Boondock Saints.
I think there should be more guys like that.
Though I don't think that being miserable is a right way to live, but still, he was pretty young and had nobody to teach him some important stuff about emotional health >;

_________________
Oh Sinnerman, where you gonna run to?
Sinnerman where you gonna run to?
Where you gonna run to....all along dem day
Fire, walk with me


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:24 pm 
Offline
Tired of Earth.
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 8131
Location: 1060 W. Addison St.
Rorschach isn't insane? Have you actually read Watchmen? The movie doesn't do as good a job in showing Rorschach's nasty side, but you should really read through chapters 5 and 6 a few times.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:30 pm 
Offline
...you're locked in here with me!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:53 pm
Posts: 10199
Une Fille Attriste wrote:
He is not sadistic or insane.


Did you read the novel ? did you watch the movie ?

Une Fille Attriste wrote:
So are The Boondock Saints.
I think there should be more guys like that.


I don't want to be rude, but I hate it when people bring the fucking Boondock Saints as examples of what vigilantes should be.

The Boondock Saints are saturday morning cartoons, no vigilante is as sleek or as stylish as those two are, no vigilante's life is as simple or as poetic as the ones those two live, not even THE GOD DAMN PUNISHER is like those two. I'd like to see what happens when both go to a house on a slum and find children's underwear in an oven, and then seeing two dogs fighting for the bone that belonged in a little girl's leg.

Vigilante life is NOT pretty.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:41 pm 
Offline
I don't think there is a god. And if there is I'm nothing like him.
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:26 pm
Posts: 5380
Location: Knee Deep in the Dead
feliciano182 wrote:
Une Fille Attriste wrote:
He is not sadistic or insane.


Did you read the novel ? did you watch the movie ?

Une Fille Attriste wrote:
So are The Boondock Saints.
I think there should be more guys like that.


I don't want to be rude, but I hate it when people bring the fucking Boondock Saints as examples of what vigilantes should be.

The Boondock Saints are saturday morning cartoons, no vigilante is as sleek or as stylish as those two are, no vigilante's life is as simple or as poetic as the ones those two live, not even THE GOD DAMN PUNISHER is like those two. I'd like to see what happens when both go to a house on a slum and find children's underwear in an oven, and then seeing two dogs fighting for the bone that belonged in a little girl's leg.

Vigilante life is NOT pretty.

even though i LOVE the saints *eyeballs my five posters...* i have to agree. It borders on outright comedy how shiny it all is.

_________________
My Blog of Movie Reviews and Such
Image
I'll be right back. I gotta go see a man about a mule.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:26 pm 
Offline
...you're locked in here with me!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:19 pm
Posts: 10658
Location: Arkham, Mass.
Une Fille Attriste wrote:
He is not sadistic or insane.


So you don't think chained a guy to a heater and setting his building on fire so he can slowly burn alive is sadistic? Then standing in the alley to just watch?

Breaking people's fingers at will?

Rorschach is very sadistic.

feliciano182 wrote:
not even THE GOD DAMN PUNISHER is like those two.


There are some punisher comics where he makes rorschach look like Kitty Pryde, man, comparing him to the boondock saints is like comparing The Joker to Captain Carnage, they are both villains but so different there's not a lot of comparisson

_________________
@RealSlimCAvery
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:57 pm 
Offline
...you're locked in here with me!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:53 pm
Posts: 10199
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
There are some punisher comics where he makes rorschach look like Kitty Pryde, man, comparing him to the boondock saints is like comparing The Joker to Captain Carnage, they are both villains but so different there's not a lot of comparisson


I was thinking of the pussier 616 version of punisher, not even that one is as cheesy as the saints are.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:55 pm 
Offline
...you're locked in here with me!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:19 pm
Posts: 10658
Location: Arkham, Mass.
feliciano182 wrote:

I was thinking of the pussier 616 version of punisher, not even that one is as cheesy as the saints are.


Well, there has to be some censorship because he pops up in like Spider man and stuff, so I'll allow the comparisson.

But Punishermax Punisher, he would make Rorschach his bitch. (just saying)

_________________
@RealSlimCAvery
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:11 am 
Offline
Government-Sponsored Weirdo
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:39 am
Posts: 7191
Location: Everywhere, Everywhen, UK.
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Une Fille Attriste wrote:
He is not sadistic or insane.


So you don't think chained a guy to a heater and setting his building on fire so he can slowly burn alive is sadistic? Then standing in the alley to just watch?

Breaking people's fingers at will?

Rorschach is very sadistic.

feliciano182 wrote:
not even THE GOD DAMN PUNISHER is like those two.


There are some punisher comics where he makes rorschach look like Kitty Pryde, man, comparing him to the boondock saints is like comparing The Joker to Captain Carnage, they are both villains but so different there's not a lot of comparisson



not to mention handcuffing a guy in a burning building with only a hacksaw to free himself with. Mad Max did it first, but still they're both sadistic loonies

_________________
We're all actors, Laurie. I'm just an actor who read the script. :?
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:54 am 
Offline
The Watcher
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:58 am
Posts: 3650
Location: New York
A sadist derives pleasure from inflicting pain. Rorschach does not enjoy what he does, but sees it as a moral imperative - something that must be done.

Is Rorschach insane? I don't think so. He definitely is troubled and has one, if not several, personality disorders, but if he was tried in a court for his crimes, I don't think an insanity plea would hold even with a very liberal judge.

Now, is Rorschach a serial killer? In the law's eyes, I would have to lean toward yes, but he doesn't completely fit the definition. Serial killers by definition kill for "psychological gratification" to victims that have something in common, which Rorschach certainly does. But his killing is constant and he doesn't have the "cooling off period" between killings which is associated with most serial killers - his constant killing with no breaks fits more with the definition of a spree killer.

_________________
Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:42 am 
Offline
...you're locked in here with me!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:19 pm
Posts: 10658
Location: Arkham, Mass.
DoomsdayClock wrote:
Now, is Rorschach a serial killer? In the law's eyes, I would have to lean toward yes, but he doesn't completely fit the definition. Serial killers by definition kill for "psychological gratification" to victims that have something in common, which Rorschach certainly does. But his killing is constant and he doesn't have the "cooling off period" between killings which is associated with most serial killers - his constant killing with no breaks fits more with the definition of a spree killer.


I'll giyou that him being a true sadist is a gray area, but Rorschach does kill for psychological gratification: Knowing that there is one less criminal on the street gives him an insane level of gratfication. And the soemthing in common all his victims have: they are all criminals, he has selected a certain group of people that he targets. guess he doesn't have true "cooling off" periods because 'crime never sleeps. hurm'

_________________
@RealSlimCAvery
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:12 pm 
Offline
The Watcher
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:58 am
Posts: 3650
Location: New York
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
DoomsdayClock wrote:
Now, is Rorschach a serial killer? In the law's eyes, I would have to lean toward yes, but he doesn't completely fit the definition. Serial killers by definition kill for "psychological gratification" to victims that have something in common, which Rorschach certainly does. But his killing is constant and he doesn't have the "cooling off period" between killings which is associated with most serial killers - his constant killing with no breaks fits more with the definition of a spree killer.


I'll giyou that him being a true sadist is a gray area, but Rorschach does kill for psychological gratification: Knowing that there is one less criminal on the street gives him an insane level of gratfication. And the soemthing in common all his victims have: they are all criminals, he has selected a certain group of people that he targets. guess he doesn't have true "cooling off" periods because 'crime never sleeps. hurm'

You misread me. I agree, he does kill for psychological gratification, which gives him one point in the serial killer column, but, to be a sadist, you must get pleasure from your violent actions, and Rorschach does not.

The Comedian? Now there's your sadist.

_________________
Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music - George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:23 pm 
Offline
...you're locked in here with me!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:19 pm
Posts: 10658
Location: Arkham, Mass.
DoomsdayClock wrote:
You misread me. I agree, he does kill for psychological gratification, which gives him one point in the serial killer column, but, to be a sadist, you must get pleasure from your violent actions, and Rorschach does not.


Okay, I concede that I did misread.

DoomsdayClock wrote:
The Comedian? Now there's your sadist.


And yes, The Comedian is the walking definition of Sadism.

_________________
@RealSlimCAvery
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:42 pm 
Offline
I don't think there is a god. And if there is I'm nothing like him.
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:26 pm
Posts: 5380
Location: Knee Deep in the Dead
i had been making this fan trailer, and when i was putting Adrian's clip in, with the dramatic music in the background, the text overly says "SOME WILL HAVE PRIDE..."

Rorschach: "SOME WILL HAVE CONVICTION..."

but for eddie all i wanted to put was for that clip where he burns the guy in nam, and smiles: "SOME ARE REALLY FUCKING SADISTIC"

i couldnt even finish the trailer i was laughing so damn hard

_________________
My Blog of Movie Reviews and Such
Image
I'll be right back. I gotta go see a man about a mule.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:05 pm 
Offline
Vigilante

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:05 am
Posts: 78
In the list of the scariest to imagine as fathers to the most pleasant here's my list.

Adrian Veidt- Narcissistic, charming, manipulative, self absorbed, incredibly intelligent, dark identity hidden behind a flawless exterior. Basically... A sociopath. He might be caring to a child, but I believe he'd raise him to be a mini version of himself and not accept anything less. That's a bit scary.

Edward Blake- Sadistic, cruel, never accepts responsibility for his own actions / vices. Practically the definition of an abusive spouse or father. He might want to be a part of a child's life, but in the end he would not be able to put a kid before himself.

Dr. Manhattan- ((Tough one beside Rorschach DX)) If his child was human he would not be able to relate his perception of the world easily, I believe. Time isn't linear to hi, like it is to everyone else, and knowing how things will be would stress any parent/child relationship. He has a new appreciation for humanity and life, but I believe that would be with a race, rather then an individual.

Walter Kovak- ((About tied with Dr Manhattan. Longest explanation since he is the subject of the thread)) Psychologically disturbed, emotionally unstable, morally twisted. Rorschach believes in building a sin free world by eliminating the sinful and the immoral. At the same time he has a weak spot for children, likely for their innocence. He is shown as sympathetic to abused children because of his own past, and seems shaken when a child is hurt. At the same he has a very twisted view of family life. Women are 'whores', while men are easily excused. He has a very romantic ((Not as in romance, for the record.)) view of his father, where he is a war hero fighting Nazis, and pardoned him for never being around. It's hard not to assume that Rorschach wouldn't be the same way, considering his own personal war on the crime problem in New York. I can't see him putting that aside even for a child, but I don't really see him leaving his child in the hands of a 'Whore'. I do see him as taking more of a guardian angel role with any kid he'd father, and how far that would go would depend entirely on the woman involved. Best case scenario she lets him come and go and the child is simi-aware who that strange man is who keeps coming by. Worst case scenario he might take the child away from the woman if he deems her an unfit mother, and dumps it on someone else... Even in foster care, like he was after being taken away from his own abusive mother.

Of course, I doubt Walter would ever father a child. He does seem to be aroused by women, but instead of acknowledging arousal for what it is he always brings it back to relate with his mother, and what she was. He is also a hypocrite who excuses male lust though, putting blame on women for being whores and temptresses. It's not completely unreasonable to think that he might play off his own as her fault, rather than his.

Daniel Dreiberg- By far the only watchman who seems to show any ability to be a decent father! Patient, kind, but obviously capable of punishing when necessary. His biggest drawback would be his bachelor lifestyle, and should he marry that would be resolved on its own.


Last edited by kikora21 on Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:37 pm 
Offline
...you're locked in here with me!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:19 pm
Posts: 10658
Location: Arkham, Mass.
kikora21 wrote:
Daniel Dreiberg- By far the only watchman who seems to show any ability to be a decent father! Patient, kind, but obviously capable of punishing when necessary. His biggest drawback would be his bachelor lifestyle, and should he marry that would be resolved on its own.


Well, the end kind of seems like there might be children down the way a bit for Dan and Laurie, who knows though

_________________
@RealSlimCAvery
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:44 pm 
Offline
Vigilante

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:05 am
Posts: 78
Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
kikora21 wrote:
Daniel Dreiberg- By far the only watchman who seems to show any ability to be a decent father! Patient, kind, but obviously capable of punishing when necessary. His biggest drawback would be his bachelor lifestyle, and should he marry that would be resolved on its own.


Well, the end kind of seems like there might be children down the way a bit for Dan and Laurie, who knows though

Dan I could see as a Dad.... But Laurie? Ehhh, not as sure on that one. >.> I'm not too fond of her. XD


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.113s | 14 Queries | GZIP : Off ]