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 Post subject: Hot fat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:41 pm 
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Apologies if this has been brought up before; I didn't see anything about it when searching "Rorschach fat" in the search feature.

I've been thinking about the hot fat scenes in the book lately, and it really gets me going. I remember being picked on as a child (though not for the same reasons Walter Kovacs was), so I remember just how far the bullies went, what they did, and who they were. I remember my own Walter Kovacs moment when I finally defended myself and knocked some kid's two front teeth out. Pretty much the same fallout from that as in the GN: "Oh that awful boy. Blame the parents. Just like a rabid dog. Animal!"

Of course, the aggressor in these situations was almost always coddled and treated like the victim, after months and months and months of bullying me, only to have one simple action by me completely reverse the public opinion of the situation. The school interviewed me about why I punched the kid in the mouth. I told them that I was tired of hearing his mouth humiliate and ridicule me day in and day out, so that's why I chose to hit him there. They told me I knocked his two front teeth out, and I told them that I hoped he remembered the day his mouth got him into trouble for the rest of his life. Then maybe he wouldn't use it that way anymore.

Fortunately for me, some witnesses came forth anonymously to say that he had been bullying me for a long time. Long story short, nothing happened to me. My dad didn't have to pay any dentist bills. At the time, I felt that that kid absolutely deserved what I did to him. Now, I still feel that way to a degree, but with an adult's hindsight, I am still sorry I did it.

Now I will tie this in with Watchmen: When you see Walter dousing the prison inmate in hot fat, or Gerald Grice burning in his filthy apartment, do you look at these people, and people like this as having "got what they deserved"? Do you feel sorry for them, or do you think that Walter did the right thing? I remember watching the fat scene in the movie, knowing it was coming, and I was twitching, thinking: "get him." *guy gets doused in fat* "YEAH!" Terrible thoughts, I'm sure. I'm interested in what the rest of you think.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:18 pm 
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Well I now seem to be an avid fan of the stories of your life, they are so cool.

As for Watchmen, I'm not entirely sure that the inmate deserved to have hot fat spilled all over him. I mean, yes he was going to stab Rorschach and possibly kill him as well, so Rorschach only naturally defended himself. But he didn't have to take a step further and pour that fat all over the inmate. It could have ended right after he knocked him to the ground, but I guess Rorschach wanted to make sure that it ended.

Grice may have deserved death for what he had done to Blair Roche, but again, maybe not in the same style as it had happened to him. Rorschach could have taken him in, where he would possibly get the chair, or lethal injection, or something. But I think Grice definitely earned either a death sentence or a life sentence.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:25 pm 
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WJK wrote:
Well I now seem to be an avid fan of the stories of your life, they are so cool.


Thanks. There's a lot I don't talk about, because I am sure no one will ever believe me.

WJK wrote:
As for Watchmen, I'm not entirely sure that the inmate deserved to have hot fat spilled all over him. I mean, yes he was going to stab Rorschach and possibly kill him as well, so Rorschach only naturally defended himself. But he didn't have to take a step further and pour that fat all over the inmate. It could have ended right after he knocked him to the ground, but I guess Rorschach wanted to make sure that it ended.


I think his frame of mind is that if you don't put these people down, no amount of rehabilitation is going to stop them from being the kind of animals and predators that they are. You either stop them cold, or you stop them temporarily, which allows them to go and do the same things again later.

WJK wrote:
Grice may have deserved death for what he had done to Blair Roche, but again, maybe not in the same style as it had happened to him. Rorschach could have taken him in, where he would possibly get the chair, or lethal injection, or something. But I think Grice definitely earned either a death sentence or a life sentence.


Rorschach had no tangible proof that Grice killed Blair Roche, did he? I mean, he found the underwear and saw the dogs chewing on the bone, but that could've been any kind of bone, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Sun-chained-in-ink wrote:
WJK wrote:
As for Watchmen, I'm not entirely sure that the inmate deserved to have hot fat spilled all over him. I mean, yes he was going to stab Rorschach and possibly kill him as well, so Rorschach only naturally defended himself. But he didn't have to take a step further and pour that fat all over the inmate. It could have ended right after he knocked him to the ground, but I guess Rorschach wanted to make sure that it ended.


I think his frame of mind is that if you don't put these people down, no amount of rehabilitation is going to stop them from being the kind of animals and predators that they are. You either stop them cold, or you stop them temporarily, which allows them to go and do the same things again later.


Exactly. That guy would have kept coming after him until he got the job done.

And perhaps more importantly, don't forget that that was not the only inmate gunning for Rorschach. Big Figure's guys (the shiv came from the inmate behind the one who actually went after Rors) just got first dibs on him. Have no doubt that had Rorschach not been willing to ultimately put this guy down in some way, the other inmates would have been making attempts on him every chance they got. Rorschach needed to show them that he would stop them and that there would be dire consequences to any attempt on his life. I believe it was definitely necessary to toss the grease on the guy. It was an object lesson all around.

Understand that there really are people in this world who do NOT respond to peace and love and the benefit of the doubt. They speak a different language, unfortunately, and have to be dealt with accordingly.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:54 pm 
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Janx wrote:
Understand that there really are people in this world who do NOT respond to peace and love and the benefit of the doubt. They speak a different language, unfortunately, and have to be dealt with accordingly.


I've been saying this for years. I truly believe you're right here, that there are people in this world who are animals; they will never be rehabilitated, they will never change. They are predators and thugs; the different language you're speaking of is violence, and violence is the only language they will ever understand. I consider myself a liberal, but I do not give people like this any leeway whatsoever. Any time I see a news story of a gangster dead in the streets, his mother hovering over the dead body screaming: "WHY LORD!? WHY MY BABY!?" I think: "Because your 'baby' lived by the sword, and died by it, too."

I would not agree with, say, The Punisher's method of justice, but I sure would not have trouble sleeping at night if some gangster's attempted victim in a rape or murder ended up crippling him or wounding him so badly that he died from his injuries. I understand that violence will always beget violence, and that the cycle will never change if that is the route you're going to take. Unfortunately, what most folks don't want to admit to themselves is that the world is only slightly different from that of primitive man.

To quote Jack Nicholson's line from A Few Good Men, "deep down in places we don't talk about at parties," we know that no matter how much technology we invent, or how many ways we come up with to make ourselves feel superior to primitive man, or how much peace and order we have instilled in the general society at large ... the world is STILL a kill or be killed world. Eventually, everyone will, at some point in their lives, run across this type of person. The person who preys on those they perceive as weak, that care only for themselves, and will stop at nothing (including the harm of another human being) to speak their language of violence and hatred. Lord knows I have met my fair share.

But I digress.

I am sorry, in hindsight, that I knocked that kid's teeth out. However, also in hindsight, I can see that if I had not done that, then the daily verbal and physical humiliation and borderline torture never would have ended. What really flips my lid is that if I splashed someone's face with boiling hot fat in the scenario that Walter Kovavs did, I don't know that I'd feel sorry for that person that I did it to. Sorry that it came to that, deeply sorry in fact, but I would not shed a tear for him once he shuffled off this mortal coil. Is that weird?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:21 am 
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Sun-chained-in-ink wrote:
Apologies if this has been brought up before; I didn't see anything about it when searching "Rorschach fat" in the search feature.

I've been thinking about the hot fat scenes in the book lately, and it really gets me going. I remember being picked on as a child (though not for the same reasons Walter Kovacs was), so I remember just how far the bullies went, what they did, and who they were. I remember my own Walter Kovacs moment when I finally defended myself and knocked some kid's two front teeth out. Pretty much the same fallout from that as in the GN: "Oh that awful boy. Blame the parents. Just like a rabid dog. Animal!"

Of course, the aggressor in these situations was almost always coddled and treated like the victim, after months and months and months of bullying me, only to have one simple action by me completely reverse the public opinion of the situation. The school interviewed me about why I punched the kid in the mouth. I told them that I was tired of hearing his mouth humiliate and ridicule me day in and day out, so that's why I chose to hit him there. They told me I knocked his two front teeth out, and I told them that I hoped he remembered the day his mouth got him into trouble for the rest of his life. Then maybe he wouldn't use it that way anymore.

Fortunately for me, some witnesses came forth anonymously to say that he had been bullying me for a long time. Long story short, nothing happened to me. My dad didn't have to pay any dentist bills. At the time, I felt that that kid absolutely deserved what I did to him. Now, I still feel that way to a degree, but with an adult's hindsight, I am still sorry I did it.

Now I will tie this in with Watchmen: When you see Walter dousing the prison inmate in hot fat, or Gerald Grice burning in his filthy apartment, do you look at these people, and people like this as having "got what they deserved"? Do you feel sorry for them, or do you think that Walter did the right thing? I remember watching the fat scene in the movie, knowing it was coming, and I was twitching, thinking: "get him." *guy gets doused in fat* "YEAH!" Terrible thoughts, I'm sure. I'm interested in what the rest of you think.


I was also bullied a lot as a child, so I understand the pain too. I mean, I was born with a birthmark on one side of my face. You can imagine that I wasn't widely accepted by other children. I'd get teased by people saying horrible things and I would get called two-face a lot since the birthmark is just on one side of my face. I also got food thrown in my face and what not. Someone wanted to give me another 'stain' on my face and smashed a fruit in my face.

I never fought back though. I mean, I was a female so I don't know if that's why I never punched anyone out.

I know that one of my uncles....when he was little some other kid bullied him and pushed him down so my uncle took out his pocket knife and stabbed him....he didn't stab him in very far, not enough to seriously hurt him, just to get him to fuck off. It worked.

In my cause I relied on other people to defend me and generally no one would, expect that one time 2 years ago in a coffee shop where a random guy I didn't know protected me from a group of young guys who were insulting me.

Anyway I like it that Rorschach protects people like me. I do get angry at people who do horrible things....so I kind of think they deserve it....although at the same time I've always been too nice to think that anyone deserves to die or be hurt really badly. I generally think of other ways that they should be punished that aren't physical.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:50 am 
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God, I can't believe I forgot about you, Raine. You're the PERFECT person for me to ask this question to.

Years ago, I would tell friends of mine a certain few things about bullies I hated (side note: I use the word hate very sparingly. I honestly loathed these people back in the day, and devoutly wished them to perish in the most visceral, worst possible ways).

What I would tell them is that I hoped I could maim one of them in some permanent fashion (if only I had known I would knock someone's teeth out later that year), so that every morning when they woke up, they would see what the consequences of their actions were. They would see something hideous, THEMSELVES, and remember that it was there because of their actions. I used to say that I wanted to make them look on the outside how they looked on the inside. My friend Josh (whose life I would later end up saving) would always argue with me that that wouldn't do anything. They would only seek revenge, and the cycle would never stop. As I said earlier, violence begets violence.

Moving on...

You've got the birthmark you mentioned. This is not to be insulting to you, I think you're beautiful. My question is, would you ever wish something permanent like that on anyone else in retaliation for something they had done to you?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:29 am 
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i do find that one little sentence weird, about you not feeling remorse for killing a person, but feel remorse for knocking that kid's teeth out. i think i know why too. it's because the prisoner who had hot fat dumped on him eventually died. the kid you punched has to live with what you gave him. his teeth may never grow back in (depending on how long ago that was, i'm sure he's gotten that space filled up again).


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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:49 pm 
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Personally I feel no pity for hot fat guy

Hot Fat Guy wrote:
I got my autograph book right here in my pocket... It's notched up quite a few famous names over the years...


This Suggests that he's been stabbing people with his skrew driver a lot and that many people died because of him. So he's not just an attempted murderer, he is one. And then there's the reason he's in prison in the first place so... Yeah. No pity.

Tooth Kid got what was coming to him. I don't think he deserved to have his teeth knocked out but he did need that punch. You just shouldn't bully people. That's the way it is.

I find that overall I can't seem to muster sympathy for people who get hurt as a Consequence of actions such as bullying or attempted murder. (BTW, I'm not saying bullying is as bad as murder, I'm just saying they're both bad)

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:49 pm 
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Sun-chained-in-ink wrote:
we know that no matter how much technology we invent, or how many ways we come up with to make ourselves feel superior to primitive man, or how much peace and order we have instilled in the general society at large ... the world is STILL a kill or be killed world.

This is so weird. Just as I was reading your post I was thinking the exact same thing. I have a tendency to see things in primitive terms, I like to think how early man or animals would cope with a challenge. I feel the same about bullying. I think revenge is a basic human instinct. If someone is behaving that cruelly to you, it's only natural you would retaliate.

Raine Summerfly wrote:
In my cause I relied on other people to defend me and generally no one would, expect that one time 2 years ago in a coffee shop where a random guy I didn't know protected me from a group of young guys who were insulting me.

It's awful when people you don't even know act like that towards you. It's also great when strangers stand up for you. Unfortunately no one ever has for me. People have been saying stuff to me since I was about 12 about my hair. I have red hair (Rorschach!) so guys at least 10 years older than me would drive past shouting, and once I had bottles thrown at me. But this is no time for sympathy! I too have fantasised about revenge, usually involving baseball bats and guns. I did once punch a guy in the stomach for mocking me one too many times (which was awesome since I'm a girl).

I thought most of Rorschach's victims deserved what they got. Maybe I see things a bit too simply but, as has already been mentioned, the Hot Fat Guy was going to keep going after him until Ror was dead. Plus I always thought it was pretty much certain that Grice killed Roche, what he did was unforgivable, so I think Rorschach fought fire literally with fire. When Grice was burning in that house I took a morbid satisfaction in knowing that he knew it was because of what he did. Forgive me for the ineloquency of this post. Is ineloquency even a word?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:09 pm 
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Quote:
once I had bottles thrown at me


It's things like these that make me worry about the human race. How could you throw something at someone because of their hair? The fact that it was bottles suggest they were drunk but that's no excuse.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:14 pm 
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I have a scar over my eye that I received when I was hit with a beer can in the face, thrown from a car that was driving past me as I was walking to school for junior prom that night, so I sympathize with people who have had things thrown at them for no discernable reason. I guess that in the final analysis, I end up thinking that even though these people are human beings, they are also animals. Animals that will continute to stalk their chosen prey until the cows come home, or until they are stopped.

It does not matter where they are (free or in prison) these people will always be animals, always be predators. The sadness I feel is sadness for the human race, not these animals. As I said earlier, I am sorry for knocking that kid's teeth out, in retrospect. Though, that's with an adult's hindsight. In the heat of the moment, I was glad I did it. I felt good. For several weeks after, when someone would start in with me, I would ask them if they wanted to lose their front teeth, as well, and the situation was usually over before it started.

One part of me says that my actions weren't right. The other part is asking me what else there was for me to do. I find myself asking the question of what if things had been different? What if I hadn't knocked his teeth out, and just landed some ineffectual blow? Did the serious injury give him pause about preying on someone else later in life, or was my victory short lived? Did he just found someone else who was weak that he didn't think would fight back to prey on?

A great many things in this world are very simple. It is us that choose to complicate things left and right, but what most folks don't want to admit is that the world really is just as simple as it seems, sometimes. Back then, I said that the kid would leave me alone now. That I wouldn't have to worry about being bullied by him anymore, and when people told me back then that "it's not that simple," I just said: "sometimes things are."

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:02 pm 
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I wanted to mention something else about that particular scene (at least the way it ran in the movie; I think it goes the same way in the GN but I could be mistaken): the aftermath of Rorschach throwing hot fat on the inmate parallels the episode when he was a child. Rorschach's just standing there, doing absolutely nothing because he's already taken out the person who was trying to kill him, and the guards come flying in and beat the crap out of him like he somehow needs to be subdued at this point. :roll: It reminds me of the bystanders who freaked out when he was a kid, after he'd thrashed the bigger boys who weren't just insulting him but threatening to do him bodily harm.



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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:20 pm 
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Sun-chained-in-ink wrote:
WJK wrote:
Well I now seem to be an avid fan of the stories of your life, they are so cool.


Thanks. There's a lot I don't talk about, because I am sure no one will ever believe me.

WJK wrote:
As for Watchmen, I'm not entirely sure that the inmate deserved to have hot fat spilled all over him. I mean, yes he was going to stab Rorschach and possibly kill him as well, so Rorschach only naturally defended himself. But he didn't have to take a step further and pour that fat all over the inmate. It could have ended right after he knocked him to the ground, but I guess Rorschach wanted to make sure that it ended.


I think his frame of mind is that if you don't put these people down, no amount of rehabilitation is going to stop them from being the kind of animals and predators that they are. You either stop them cold, or you stop them temporarily, which allows them to go and do the same things again later.

WJK wrote:
Grice may have deserved death for what he had done to Blair Roche, but again, maybe not in the same style as it had happened to him. Rorschach could have taken him in, where he would possibly get the chair, or lethal injection, or something. But I think Grice definitely earned either a death sentence or a life sentence.


Rorschach had no tangible proof that Grice killed Blair Roche, did he? I mean, he found the underwear and saw the dogs chewing on the bone, but that could've been any kind of bone, I guess.





Well, in the comic at least, Grice pretty much told on himself. Rorschach started handcuffing the guy, but said nothing. And the Grice said " I know what you think....You think I had something to do with that little girl?" Rorschach said nothing about it, the guy just threw it out there. Sounds like evidence enough to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:22 pm 
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I think this thread should be split into a new topic. As interesting as the hot cooking fat scene is (for what it's worth, I think he had it coming to him), I think the topic of violence and humanity could make for one that is more interesting. Some interesting perspectives have been raised. I'd like to share more, but I don't want to derail the thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:41 pm 
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I'd be happy to acquiesce, t3cii, but the two topics are so intertwined here that it would make for a very awkward thread split.

If you or anyone else would like to start a different and more general thread about violence, I'd very much like to read it.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:33 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
I'd be happy to acquiesce, t3cii, but the two topics are so intertwined here that it would make for a very awkward thread split.

If you or anyone else would like to start a different and more general thread about violence, I'd very much like to read it.


That's alright. I'll just post in this thread. I'd create a new thread but what I wanted to say is too vague and too rambling and the subject too broad. I'll try to tie it into what's been said so far in the thread, although I may go into a bit of a tangent.

Bernard wrote:
It's things like these that make me worry about the human race. How could you throw something at someone because of their hair? The fact that it was bottles suggest they were drunk but that's no excuse.


This sort of thing happens all the time and it really bugs me. I just don't understand random acts of violence. They're just so....random. You have to wonder what is going through these people's minds. What would compel you to throw something at someone you don't know and have never met? Is it some sort of mental illness? Or do these people have no internal filter, nothing to tell them "hey, what you're planning on doing is really stupid!"? Or, are these people just acting out on their impulses, like Rorschach, just living in the moment and acting on every whim?

I've never had anything thrown at me, but I have been yelled at by someone passing by in a car on several occasions. One time when waiting for a bus on my way home from school I happened to be looking at a bus that was driving by. Some kid around my age looked out the window, saw me, then grinned and held out his middle finger. Another time, I walked by a group of guys in a mall, and I sensed something off about them. As I waked past, one of them stuck out their skateboard just far enough so that my hand hit the rough part. In most of these situations or ones like them I'm too taken aback by what happened that I don't respond. Usually it's just some dumb teenager who thinks it would be funny to walk up to me and ask me "how it's going?", just so they can laugh and say they "totally freaked me out" to their jerkoff friends. But lately I've had an urge to want to confront people like that. Not in a violent way, but just to verbally chew them out and make them regret they ever opened their mouth.

Sun-chained-in-ink wrote:
I've been saying this for years. I truly believe you're right here, that there are people in this world who are animals; they will never be rehabilitated, they will never change. They are predators and thugs; the different language you're speaking of is violence, and violence is the only language they will ever understand.


I tend to agree. I find the people who say "violence never solves anything" are the people who have never been picked on or been in a fight when they were a kid. Now I don't advocate extreme violence such as the use of weapons, however I feel in most cases violence usually puts a quick end to most conflicts. As a kid in school you'd often see fights during recess, usually over something trivial. Soon as the first punch was thrown everyone would be in a frenzy, chanting "Fight! Fight! Fight!" The fight itself would have lasted maybe two minutes before it got broken up. Both kids would be in trouble, and they'd be forced to shake hands, and that would be the end of it. Soon, most people would forget what the fight was about, and the kids fighting would almost never fight again. I think some kids (and some people) only understand the use of violence. Ignoring them, walking away, telling on them won't do anything. But if you stand up to them, even if it means getting hurt, they'll leave you alone. In some primitive way, this gets through to them.

Sun-chained-in-ink wrote:
I understand that violence will always beget violence, and that the cycle will never change if that is the route you're going to take. Unfortunately, what most folks don't want to admit to themselves is that the world is only slightly different from that of primitive man.


There are two quotes that come to mind when reading that. (This is where we get to why I originally wanted to post this in a separate thread, as this is becoming a long post):

"At bottom, you see, we are not Homo sapiens at all. Our core is madness.The prime directive is murder. What Darwin was too polite to say, my friends, is that we came to rule the earth not because we were the smartest, or even meanest, but because we have always been the craziest, most murderous motherfuckers in the jungle"
(From "Cell", by Stephen King)

"Leave it at this: man has come to dominate the planet thanks to two essential traits. One is intelligence. The other is the absolute willingness to kill anyone or anything that gets in its way"
(Also from "Cell").

There's something to that. I think the reason we as humanity are civilized is because it was (is) necessary for are survival as a species. In order to get along, we had to learn how to get along. We had to suppress our more violent urges. We taught ourselves to be civilized, and we still have to teach ourselves. Look at children. Go to any school yard, or park, anywhere, and you'll see the most antisocial behavior. Biting, hitting, cheating, stealing, you name it. It's only when we are taught (or disciplined) that our behavior is wrong that we learn to suppress these urges. Still, these natural urges can develop in more subtle ways when we get older and not always involving violence.

Which brings me back to Rorschach. I think he represents humanity's dark side. Rorschach doesn't always contemplate his actions. He just acts on impulse. When he throws the boiling fat on the inmate, he's doing it out of self preservation. It's brutal and harsh but it's what he needed to do to survive. His actions saved his life. As the burn victim says:

Bernard wrote:
I got my autograph book right here in my pocket... It's notched up quite a few famous names over the years...


How many of that guys victims would have lived had they had Rorschach's survival instincts?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:23 pm 
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Thermodynamic Miracle
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t3cii wrote:
What would compel you to throw something at someone you don't know and have never met?


They are animals. That's literally all there is to it.

t3cii wrote:
Is it some sort of mental illness? Or do these people have no internal filter, nothing to tell them "hey, what you're planning on doing is really stupid!"? Or, are these people just acting out on their impulses, like Rorschach, just living in the moment and acting on every whim?


I truly believe that people like this are not born the way they are, but learn that behavior over time. Gone uncorrected, the behavior becomes habit, until they really don't have that "internal filter" you mentioned. To them, these random acts become as normal as going to the store is to you or I. Once this behavior is habitual, best of luck ever getting it corrected. My personal belief is that they will never change. No amount of rehabilitation can force people to see that right is right, and wrong is wrong. It's either instilled in you very early, or it isn't, and you turn out accordingly.

t3cii wrote:
I have been yelled at by someone passing by in a car on several occasions.


So have I. I've never understood that. Scaring the living daylights out of a stranger, then driving off and laughing about how cool you are. Are you serious? I learned to live with this, I just started flipping the people who did this to me off. Most times, I am wearing headphones, so I don't hear them.

t3cii wrote:
Another time, I walked by a group of guys in a mall, and I sensed something off about them. As I waked past, one of them stuck out their skateboard just far enough so that my hand hit the rough part. In most of these situations or ones like them I'm too taken aback by what happened that I don't respond. Usually it's just some dumb teenager who thinks it would be funny to walk up to me and ask me "how it's going?", just so they can laugh and say they "totally freaked me out" to their jerkoff friends. But lately I've had an urge to want to confront people like that. Not in a violent way, but just to verbally chew them out and make them regret they ever opened their mouth.


Those are the same kind of people who yell at you from their car. I've run into a few of them myself. There's nothing you can say to these people that will ever make them think twice of their actions to the point where they'd stop doing these things. Teenagers are always going to want to rebel against adults, whom they perceive as "the man," even if they don't know exactly what they are rebelling against.


t3cii wrote:
There are two quotes that come to mind when reading that. (This is where we get to why I originally wanted to post this in a separate thread, as this is becoming a long post):

"At bottom, you see, we are not Homo sapiens at all. Our core is madness.The prime directive is murder. What Darwin was too polite to say, my friends, is that we came to rule the earth not because we were the smartest, or even meanest, but because we have always been the craziest, most murderous motherfuckers in the jungle."
(From "Cell", by Stephen King)

"Leave it at this: man has come to dominate the planet thanks to two essential traits. One is intelligence. The other is the absolute willingness to kill anyone or anything that gets in its way."
(Also from "Cell").

There's something to that. I think the reason we as humanity are civilized is because it was (is) necessary for are survival as a species. In order to get along, we had to learn how to get along. We had to suppress our more violent urges. We taught ourselves to be civilized, and we still have to teach ourselves. Look at children. Go to any school yard, or park, anywhere, and you'll see the most antisocial behavior. Biting, hitting, cheating, stealing, you name it. It's only when we are taught (or disciplined) that our behavior is wrong that we learn to suppress these urges. Still, these natural urges can develop in more subtle ways when we get older and not always involving violence.


Fantastic quotes. Thank you for sharing those, I'll have to write them down. I agree that there is something to them. As a friend once told me, we all have these primitive, murderous thoughts. Everyone, at some point, thinks they'd like to kill someone. The difference between us and them is we know where to stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:52 pm 
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Alien Squid Monster
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Bernard wrote:
How could you throw something at someone because of their hair?


I've always found that these people do such things simply because they have no room for empathy. Try to ask "How would you feel if...?" and they just don't give a damn. Because they have not been brought up or educated to know that this is wrong. However, shunning those who look different was once a primitive survival technique. If an individual was acting oddly or looked different in some way, be it disabled, disfigured or from the effects of disease, driving away that individual would probably maintain health among the "normal" humans. That is the primitive side of it, but some people haven't learned to move on.

The anecdotes on this thread are interesting to read, to know that these things happen to others. I know you probably don't want this thread to turn into a dumping ground for sob stories, but I wanted to share! This was probably the worst thing that happened to me. When I was in 3rd year at High School, a boy who used to actively seek me out to make fun of my hair colour flicked a lighter on right in my face. I was lucky he didn't set my hair on fire actually. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot fat
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:07 am 
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Sun-chained-in-ink wrote:
God, I can't believe I forgot about you, Raine. You're the PERFECT person for me to ask this question to.

Years ago, I would tell friends of mine a certain few things about bullies I hated (side note: I use the word hate very sparingly. I honestly loathed these people back in the day, and devoutly wished them to perish in the most visceral, worst possible ways).

What I would tell them is that I hoped I could maim one of them in some permanent fashion (if only I had known I would knock someone's teeth out later that year), so that every morning when they woke up, they would see what the consequences of their actions were. They would see something hideous, THEMSELVES, and remember that it was there because of their actions. I used to say that I wanted to make them look on the outside how they looked on the inside. My friend Josh (whose life I would later end up saving) would always argue with me that that wouldn't do anything. They would only seek revenge, and the cycle would never stop. As I said earlier, violence begets violence.

Moving on...

You've got the birthmark you mentioned. This is not to be insulting to you, I think you're beautiful. My question is, would you ever wish something permanent like that on anyone else in retaliation for something they had done to you?


Oh I'm sorry that I hadn't seen this until now! I have not visited the forum for a while. I actually recently found out that my mother has cancer. ;_; I was still active on another board I go to....but I haven't been here for a while.

Anyway, as for your question, I actually haven't wished something permanent on those people. I never thought about that. I did think about hurting some of them though(although I never really did). What's funny is that there was this one girl who would insult me and I had this fantasy in my mind about biting her cheek and ripping it....crazy how Rorschach actually did that to someone. I never seriously considered doing that to anyone but I actually thought of that exact same thing(perhaps that is me wishing something permanent on someone.....). I just wanted them to leave me alone though. I'm not very aggressive by nature though or I might have gotten in more fights as a kid. I guess it's most likely because I'm female(not that females can't be aggressive but they seem less likely to be). Somehow I feel like I would have been even more physically bullied if I had been a guy since beating up a girl isn't really considered cool by a lot of people, even bullies since it doesn't exactly make them look tough. So it was mostly stuff being thrown at me or names being called. I never actually got punched in the face or anything.

I'm touched that you think I'm beautiful by the way. Some people do find me beautiful but a lot of people also don't appreciate the fact that I have that birthmark.

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