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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:34 am 
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I was listening to an interview with David Hayter and Alex Tse, and one of their main reasonings for having Dreiberg visit Veidt instead of Rorschach was that it didn't make sense to them why didn't Veidt kill Rorschach by snapping the rope of his grappling hook or something similar. What do you guys think?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:28 pm 
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For the same reason that Veidt staged his own attempted murder, I imagine. Better to let Rorschach think there was a mask-killer on the loose, spinning his wheels tracking down a non-existent threat while ignorant of the very real one. And if he spreads the word around, getting others to follow that same line of thinking, so much the better.

Furthermore, if Veidt did cut the grappling line, how on earth would he have explained that to the cops?

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 Post subject: Killer Instinct
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:56 pm 
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Rorschach and Veidt appear on the face of it to be polar opposites (although ultimately, they represent the same thing: people who set themselves up as different from the rest, with a different look and a different set of rules for the purpose of controlling others’ destiny). We have the unkempt, taciturn, right-wing outsider against the slick, eloquent, liberal celebrity. The former deals in absolutes whilst striving to maintain a black and white view of the world, of evil and good, whilst the latter makes his decisions somewhat more carefully, considering the pros and cons and going with the option that presents the most pros on balance whilst believing that all actions, his own included, should be judged by their consequences alone... so that the end justifies the means.

And it is this side to Veidt that informs his decision not to kill Rorschach, not only in chapter one but also again in chapter five when he could just as easily have lain in wait for him at Moloch's apartment and dispatched him with relative ease there as well.

To Veidt, everything is grey... but admittedly some grey areas are of a darker shade than others. To do what he perceives as being the right thing in any given situation, Veidt simply looks for the lightest available shade of grey and chooses it accordingly.

So in chapter one, Rorschach does not present any credible threat to Veidt's plan so there is simply no need to have to neutralise him.
By chapter five, Rorschach has become more of a concern but Veidt chooses not to kill him since to do so would constitute the darkest possible 'shade of grey solution' in that particular situation. Instead, Veidt can still effectively manage the threat simply by framing Rorschach and having him incarcerated instead... the lightest available shade of grey open to him.

Contrast this solution with that involving The Comedian. From the very outset, Blake openly represented a seemingly much more credible threat to Veidt: he was a reliable witness who had actually discovered Veidt's plan in its entirety first hand having infiltrated his secret island and so could alert the authorities in a much more believable, detailed fashion. The only option was for Blake to die, which Veidt considered to be the lightest shade solution available to him in that particular scenario.


So much for Hayter and Tse, eh?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:38 pm 
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You two are correct. It's a change in the movie I don't mind, but their reasoning and other changes in the movie pretty much tell you that they didn't really understand the book as much as they think.

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 Post subject: Re: Killer Instinct
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:06 am 
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Writer Of Wrongs wrote:
Rorschach and Veidt appear on the face of it to be polar opposites (although ultimately, they represent the same thing: people who set themselves up as different from the rest, with a different look and a different set of rules for the purpose of controlling others’ destiny). We have the unkempt, taciturn, right-wing outsider against the slick, eloquent, liberal celebrity. The former deals in absolutes whilst striving to maintain a black and white view of the world, of evil and good, whilst the latter makes his decisions somewhat more carefully, considering the pros and cons and going with the option that presents the most pros on balance whilst believing that all actions, his own included, should be judged by their consequences alone... so that the end justifies the means.

And it is this side to Veidt that informs his decision not to kill Rorschach, not only in chapter one but also again in chapter five when he could just as easily have lain in wait for him at Moloch's apartment and dispatched him with relative ease there as well.

To Veidt, everything is grey... but admittedly some grey areas are of a darker shade than others. To do what he perceives as being the right thing in any given situation, Veidt simply looks for the lightest available shade of grey and chooses it accordingly.

So in chapter one, Rorschach does not present any credible threat to Veidt's plan so there is simply no need to have to neutralise him.
By chapter five, Rorschach has become more of a concern but Veidt chooses not to kill him since to do so would constitute the darkest possible 'shade of grey solution' in that particular situation. Instead, Veidt can still effectively manage the threat simply by framing Rorschach and having him incarcerated instead... the lightest available shade of grey open to him.

Contrast this solution with that involving The Comedian. From the very outset, Blake openly represented a seemingly much more credible threat to Veidt: he was a reliable witness who had actually discovered Veidt's plan in its entirety first hand having infiltrated his secret island and so could alert the authorities in a much more believable, detailed fashion. The only option was for Blake to die, which Veidt considered to be the lightest shade solution available to him in that particular scenario.


So much for Hayter and Tse, eh?


Well.......

*Flies away in jetpack*

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:58 pm 
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I would've liked to have seen Rorschach visiting Veidt in the movie.
It looks awesome on the page, him leaving out the window.
I think from a visual standpoint, seeing him leave out the window of a skyscraper in the rain and all would've been cool on film with Snyder's visual flair.

But otherwise I never gave too much though to the change.
It always mildly irked me though.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:57 am 
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NiteOwl wrote:
I would've liked to have seen Rorschach visiting Veidt in the movie.
It looks awesome on the page, him leaving out the window.
I think from a visual standpoint, seeing him leave out the window of a skyscraper in the rain and all would've been cool on film with Snyder's visual flair.

But otherwise I never gave too much though to the change.
It always mildly irked me though.

As cool as that would have been, I kind of liked what we got in its place, which was a good dialogue scene between Dan and Adrian.

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 Post subject: Re: Killer Instinct
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Writer Of Wrongs wrote:
Rorschach and Veidt appear on the face of it to be polar opposites (although ultimately, they represent the same thing: people who set themselves up as different from the rest, with a different look and a different set of rules for the purpose of controlling others’ destiny). We have the unkempt, taciturn, right-wing outsider against the slick, eloquent, liberal celebrity. The former deals in absolutes whilst striving to maintain a black and white view of the world, of evil and good, whilst the latter makes his decisions somewhat more carefully, considering the pros and cons and going with the option that presents the most pros on balance whilst believing that all actions, his own included, should be judged by their consequences alone... so that the end justifies the means.

And it is this side to Veidt that informs his decision not to kill Rorschach, not only in chapter one but also again in chapter five when he could just as easily have lain in wait for him at Moloch's apartment and dispatched him with relative ease there as well.

To Veidt, everything is grey... but admittedly some grey areas are of a darker shade than others. To do what he perceives as being the right thing in any given situation, Veidt simply looks for the lightest available shade of grey and chooses it accordingly.

So in chapter one, Rorschach does not present any credible threat to Veidt's plan so there is simply no need to have to neutralise him.
By chapter five, Rorschach has become more of a concern but Veidt chooses not to kill him since to do so would constitute the darkest possible 'shade of grey solution' in that particular situation. Instead, Veidt can still effectively manage the threat simply by framing Rorschach and having him incarcerated instead... the lightest available shade of grey open to him.

Contrast this solution with that involving The Comedian. From the very outset, Blake openly represented a seemingly much more credible threat to Veidt: he was a reliable witness who had actually discovered Veidt's plan in its entirety first hand having infiltrated his secret island and so could alert the authorities in a much more believable, detailed fashion. The only option was for Blake to die, which Veidt considered to be the lightest shade solution available to him in that particular scenario.


So much for Hayter and Tse, eh?



Good analysis. Moore of course, as a writer, cannot always take the prosaic, real-world way out of connumdrums like these -- certain plot points just have to be accepted as "suspension of disbelief", especially since we are dealing with a comic book reality here, albeit one more carefully based in real-world physics and limitations.

I would suggest, too, that perhaps Veidt simply feels a bond toward Rorschach, initially, same as Dreiberg, and doesn't wish to kill one of his fellow costumed adventurers. Unless he has to. he has a history of antagonism toward the Comedian, however -- this personal dislike may have tipped the scales against Blake, once he stumbled onto Veidt's plan. Rendering Rorschach helpless or using him as a font for disinformation may have struck Veidt as inherently less risky and more useful than an outright confrontation.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:55 pm 
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livcyxingfoe wrote:
I would suggest, too, that perhaps Veidt simply feels a bond toward Rorschach, initially, same as Dreiberg, and doesn't wish to kill one of his fellow costumed adventurers.


I just want to preserve this one for posterity. It's easily one of the better spambots I've seen.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:02 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
livcyxingfoe wrote:
I would suggest, too, that perhaps Veidt simply feels a bond toward Rorschach, initially, same as Dreiberg, and doesn't wish to kill one of his fellow costumed adventurers.


I just want to preserve this one for posterity. It's easily one of the better spambots I've seen.


How........did you tell that was a spambot ?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:57 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Curiosity Inc. wrote:
livcyxingfoe wrote:
I would suggest, too, that perhaps Veidt simply feels a bond toward Rorschach, initially, same as Dreiberg, and doesn't wish to kill one of his fellow costumed adventurers.


I just want to preserve this one for posterity. It's easily one of the better spambots I've seen.


How........did you tell that was a spambot ?

There were links to selling MMORPG gold in the signature. Always a dead giveaway.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
feliciano182 wrote:
Curiosity Inc. wrote:
livcyxingfoe wrote:
I would suggest, too, that perhaps Veidt simply feels a bond toward Rorschach, initially, same as Dreiberg, and doesn't wish to kill one of his fellow costumed adventurers.


I just want to preserve this one for posterity. It's easily one of the better spambots I've seen.


How........did you tell that was a spambot ?

There were links to selling MMORPG gold in the signature. Always a dead giveaway.

Not to mention the fact that its post was simply a copy and pasted sentence from a previous one on this very page.

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 Post subject: Re: Killer Instinct
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:33 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:

Well.......

*Flies away in jetpack*

THANKS TO A BOT, WE FIND OUT WHO REALLY STARTED THIS SHIT.
I got it from you. :mrgreen:

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