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 Post subject: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:34 pm 
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I was just thinking about a “what-if” scenario today. What if the Comedian beat Veidt at the start of the story? Let’s say Blake held his own and drove Veidt away. Or perhaps he escaped. Point being, what if the Comedian lived? How would you see the story then? Would Veidt continue his plan? Would Blake join him? Would Blake try to stop him?

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:45 pm 
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From the moment that Veidt entered that apartment, only one of them was ever going to leave that apartment alive (well, I suppose Blake was alive until he hit the pavement, but you know what I mean). So if Blake didn't die in that fight, it'd be because he killed Adrian. The police come and Blake gets off because he killed Veidt in self-defense, the plot is stillborn, end of story.

But suppose Blake didn't go back to his apartment. Say he escaped and went into hiding. Veidt would have gone after him and found him. If Veidt merely wanted Blake dead, he would've hired an assassin like Roy Chess. Veidt didn't just want Blake dead, he wanted to kill Blake personally.

Of course, this hypothetical is meaningless. Blake didn't stand a chance against Veidt and he said as much to Moloch. The minute Veidt barged in, Blake knew he was doomed.

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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:37 pm 
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Quote:
Blake didn't stand a chance against Veidt and he said as much to Moloch.


I don't recall that.


And I think you're ending the story too soon. If Blake killed Adrian (anything is possible) how would the story for the other character unravel? Might be fun to think about. And if both Adrian and Blake survived the incident, how would the story unfold from there?

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Of course, this hypothetical is meaningless.


Almost as meaningless as discussing a 25-year old comic book that never saw any prequels/sequels.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:39 pm 
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A.G. wrote:
And I think you're ending the story too soon. If Blake killed Adrian (anything is possible) how would the story for the other character unravel? Might be fun to think about. And if both Adrian and Blake survived the incident, how would the story unfold from there?


To be honest, I also was curious about the same thing you're asking.

But Curi shot that plane down with a motherfucking stinger.

Adrian's wish to beat Blake was personal, it would've been impossible for any of them to leave alive, it simply wasn't going to happen.

And if Blake won the battle, then the story would've stalled, it would've stopped right there, nothing really remarkable would've happened.

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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:43 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
And if Blake won the battle, then the story would've stalled, it would've stopped right there, nothing really remarkable would've happened.

That was Alan Moore's original script but then he realized that it was only one page long so he scrapped it.

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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:53 pm 
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A.G. wrote:
Quote:
Blake didn't stand a chance against Veidt and he said as much to Moloch.


I don't recall that.


And I think you're ending the story too soon. If Blake killed Adrian (anything is possible) how would the story for the other character unravel? Might be fun to think about. And if both Adrian and Blake survived the incident, how would the story unfold from there?

Quote:
Of course, this hypothetical is meaningless.


Almost as meaningless as discussing a 25-year old comic book that never saw any prequels/sequels.


Well considering that the plot is driven by the fact that the comedian died...we wouldn't have a story, if he didn't.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:57 pm 
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if blake lived the first time, he would most certainly die the next time.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:51 am 
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I disagree. It was made clear that "Blake understood" Veidt's plan. So would he really try to kill Adrian? Win the fight... yes. Save himself... yes. But kill the man "with the plan" to save the world... I don't think so. If the Comedian somehow got the upper hand in that fight, I just don't see why he would go for the kill given what he knows.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:08 am 
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A.G. wrote:
I disagree. It was made clear that "Blake understood" Veidt's plan. So would he really try to kill Adrian? Win the fight... yes. Save himself... yes. But kill the man "with the plan" to save the world... I don't think so. If the Comedian somehow got the upper hand in that fight, I just don't see why he would go for the kill given what he knows.


He would certainly kill Blake, first of all because he tried to kill him, secondly, because there is no indication that Blake was in favor of Veidt's plan, if anything, he was against it, I don't think Ozymandias would've gone personally to kill Blake if he was sure that the former wouldn't rat out to his government contacts.

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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:16 am 
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Blake may not have tried to kill Veidt, but it's pretty obvious that Veidt didn't want ANYONE to know about the plan, hence why they were all killed. So a round 2 would be inevitable.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:03 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
A.G. wrote:
I disagree. It was made clear that "Blake understood" Veidt's plan. So would he really try to kill Adrian? Win the fight... yes. Save himself... yes. But kill the man "with the plan" to save the world... I don't think so. If the Comedian somehow got the upper hand in that fight, I just don't see why he would go for the kill given what he knows.


He would certainly kill Veidt, first of all because he tried to kill him, secondly, because there is no indication that Blake was in favor of Veidt's plan, if anything, he was against it, I don't think Ozymandias would've gone personally to kill Blake if he was sure that the former wouldn't rat out to his government contacts.

Fixed?

Seriously guys, I can't keep spending 3 hours on one post trying to puzzle it out because someone put the wrong name somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:01 pm 
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Quote:
secondly, because there is no indication that Blake was in favor of Veidt's plan, if anything, he was against it, I don't think Ozymandias would've gone personally to kill Blake if he was sure that the former wouldn't rat out to his government contacts.


Hahahaha That's funny!

First of all, if Blake was against it he certainaly wouldn't have just sat around his apparment, alone, and barely protected. He would've got in touch with his government contacts right away and moved to stop Adrian. He knew the plan, he knew the location, and it wasn't complete yet. If Blake was against it, as you seem to think, he could've stopped it.

What you're missing here is that he understood, as stated so in the book, that Adrian was right. At least from the Comedian's logic, Adrian was right. The inevitable part was that he knew he couldn't say a word about it. He knew it was necessary. And he also likely knew that Adrian would figure out his involvement at some point and come after him.

If Blake was against it, he would've stopped it. If he wanted to kill Adrian, he would've bee ready for him. The Comedian is well armed, and while a handgun might be useless against Veidt, other firearms would not be.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:36 pm 
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A.G. wrote:
Quote:
secondly, because there is no indication that Blake was in favor of Veidt's plan, if anything, he was against it, I don't think Ozymandias would've gone personally to kill Blake if he was sure that the former wouldn't rat out to his government contacts.


Hahahaha That's funny!

First of all, if Blake was against it he certainaly wouldn't have just sat around his apparment, alone, and barely protected. He would've got in touch with his government contacts right away and moved to stop Adrian. He knew the plan, he knew the location, and it wasn't complete yet. If Blake was against it, as you seem to think, he could've stopped it.


You know, he had a nervous breakdown. Remember the scene with Moloch? The guy is begging for forgiveness. That kind of stuff usually fucks up any rational thought.

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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:52 pm 
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You know, he had a nervous breakdown. Remember the scene with Moloch? The guy is begging for forgiveness. That kind of stuff usually fucks up any rational thought.


Yeah, but he wasn't out of his mind either. He understood. What freaked Blake out was not only the scale of the plan, but also the fact that it was necessary. Suddenly the cold hearted Comedian was overwhelmed. But he still understood. That's my point. If he didn't, he would've just ran over to his government contacts and reported it. That is exactly why he only told Moloch. He HAD to tell someone! But he knew it had to be someone that didn't matter. Someone that either wouldn't understand or would be powerless to stop it. That's the point behind Blake's situation.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:50 pm 
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A.G. wrote:
First of all, if Blake was against it he certainaly wouldn't have just sat around his apparment, alone, and barely protected. He would've got in touch with his government contacts right away and moved to stop Adrian. He knew the plan, he knew the location, and it wasn't complete yet. If Blake was against it, as you seem to think, he could've stopped it.


???

Did you pay attention to what the comedian did throughout the entire novel ? did you notice a pattern about his actions ?

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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:14 am 
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Irrelivant. Why would Blake sit at home and do NOTHING if he was against Veidt's plan? Seriously!


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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:30 pm 
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A.G. wrote:
Irrelivant. Why would Blake sit at home and do NOTHING if he was against Veidt's plan? Seriously!


Maybe he was overwhelmed. That could happen to a guy who believes he knows how the world is, and then BANG, giant squid.

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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:09 pm 
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Yeah, he was overwhelmed. That's the point. But the issue is why he was overwhelmed. The scale of Adrian's plan definitely frightened Blaked. But the real key part, the straw that truly broke the camel's back, is that Blake knew he should try to stop it. That was the break down. From his own views on the world, Blake understood the plan. And that was stated as so by Adrian in the book. Blake understood.

That's why he only told Molock. He had to say something for his own mental sake, but he knew it had to be someone that either wouldn't understand or wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Blake was a government agent. If he felt Adrian was wrong, he could have (and would have) stopped him.

Adrian knew this, but he also knew Blake was a wildcard. He knew he couldn't take the chance. That's why he killed him.


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 Post subject: Re: What if Blake lived?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:17 pm 
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A.G. wrote:
Blake was a government agent. If he felt Adrian was wrong, he could have (and would have) stopped him.

Not feeling wholeheartedly that something is wrong does not also mean you think it is right. Blake is conflicted in what to believe and what, if anything, he should do about it. At the same time he is emotionally overwhelmed by the scale of Adrian's plan. His situation is tragic - like Pagliacci's.

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