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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:52 pm 
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Nelson also known as Captain Metropolis attempted to form the Crimebusters to relive his glory days as the Comedian pointed out but Nelson believed that he was doing to fight crime. It had Dr.Manhattan, Ozymandias, Rorschach, Nite Owl II, Silk Spectre and other costumed adventurers as well but in spite of this they all after the Comedian took apart Nelson in front of everyone. It kind of makes you wonder, would it had worked out? I know its no Justice League or Avengers but still with guys like Dr.Manhattan, Rorschach and Ozymandias roaming around I think they may have a chance. I am not sure what may happen if they form the Crimebusters but nevertheless it would had resulted in the whole Minutemen deal they had a decade earlier. Would it had honestly worked out?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:11 am 
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Did the League of Nations work out?
The reason the "Crimebusters" failed so dramatically early is, in a nutshell, because it was couldn't possibly succeed.
It's less about the manpower, more about how can that power be applied to "solve", for instance, black unrest.
That's the way I see it, anyway. There are other reasons which others might put more emphasis on, for instance the incompatibility of the respective vigilantes' ideological beliefs, but from my perspective it was primarily Captain Metropolis' doing. Everything about his approach was outmoded and, for lack of a better word, immature.

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:42 am 
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Agreed. There is defintely something to be said about the perceived threats to society that Captain Metropolis brings to the meeting; having societal "woes" such as civil rights and anti-war protesting being decried by the Cap is another telling device used by Moore to clearly emphasize the right-wing tilt of superheroes.

Even the very name "Crimebusters" sounds somewhat childish in itself and serves to highlight the naive notion that Captain Metropolis clings to from his Minuteman days: that costumed vigilante justice could change the world and make it a better place (possibly true to an extent in his heyday). But now it's an uglier world that both our heroes and society itself face and such innocent idealism is for suckers, a view espoused by The Comedian who in doing so, dramatically brought a glaring shot of reality to that first - and last - meeting and an end to the concept thereafter.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:31 pm 
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I am starting to see what you mean, it looks good on the outside but when you get into the details it starts being ugly. Is Morre takign a jab the concept the Justice League, Avengers as well as other superhero teams on this?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:37 pm 
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Yes, and their real-life counterpoints.

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:38 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
Yes, and their real-life counterpoints.


such as the League of Nations? that makes some sense.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:29 pm 
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GAP wrote:
it looks good on the outside but when you get into the details it starts being ugly.


Even on looks alone, a group of costumed vigilantes who actually think they can completely eradicate a social issue like crime ?

It's completely fathomable in some comics, but when a little dose of "real life" is applied, the concept is absurd.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:37 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
GAP wrote:
it looks good on the outside but when you get into the details it starts being ugly.


Even on looks alone, a group of costumed vigilantes who actually think they can completely eradicate a social issue like crime ?

It's completely fathomable in some comics, but when a little dose of "real life" is applied, the concept is absurd.


The only comic I saw the idea of crime erradicated applied was in an alternate universe where Cable was pretty much the Messiah. And that included a lot of mind control.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:13 pm 
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Ghondar wrote:
The only comic I saw the idea of crime erradicated applied was in an alternate universe where Cable was pretty much the Messiah. And that included a lot of mind control.


The real issue that is almost never confronted in comics is that no one, be it police or superheroes, can't eradicate crime on their own, because crime isn't something that simply "exists", it's a consequence of different factors applied at a given time, you can't just leave the task of finishing crime to the police, or to superheroes in a comic, it's a job that belongs to politicians, teachers, parents, etc.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:16 pm 
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Crime needs to fought with education as well as all those things you mentioned. Superheroes can only tackle the symptoms, not the cause.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:29 am 
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Crime is subjective.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:17 pm 
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GAP wrote:
AYBGerrardo wrote:
Yes, and their real-life counterpoints.


such as the League of Nations? that makes some sense.


Why's everyone keep saying The League of Nation sbut not that other group of nations that are united... I can't remember the name though...

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:22 pm 
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Because the United Nations worked, and still does to this day. Not to mention the fact that it was created much better than the League.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:50 pm 
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WJK wrote:
Because the United Nations worked, and still does to this day. Not to mention the fact that it was created much better than the League.


But it's the same base concept of a league of nations, therefore done properly... The Crimebusters could work. Like Ozy said, they just needed the right leadership

(see that was my point? :D )

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:11 pm 
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The League of Nations is much more the equivalent, and I believe it is what is being alluded to - if not with the Crimebusters, with the Minutemen.

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Smutty wrote:
Crime is subjective.


If you have no criteria at all, then yes.

WJK wrote:
Because the United Nations worked, and still does to this day.


Yeah, no wonder we're such a peaceful planet :P !

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:18 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Smutty wrote:
Crime is subjective.


If you have no criteria at all, then yes.

WJK wrote:
Because the United Nations worked, and still does to this day.


Yeah, no wonder we're such a peaceful planet :P !


WW3 hasn't happened... yet.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:07 pm 
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WJK wrote:
WW3 hasn't happened... yet.


That's more because of America and Russia resolving the Cold War and continuing use of MAD as a deterant.

That wasn't the UN's doing

And Also though, they may have been comparing it to the League of Nations, but a very similar idea was implemented and is still around, so the idea could have worked. Same with a team of capes, with better leadership it could have worked

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:33 pm 
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"Crime" isn't subjective, it's highly organised. The comedian was in the place of one of the shooters in Dealey Plaza so he knows the score- organised crime, high echelons of politics and big business are different faces of the same thing. They control events as much as they are able to in real life, and the absurdities in the media are smoke screens for them.

As for the right wing tilt of superheroes, that I think is illusory. Originally the largely immigrant jewish creators tried to fit in to what was still a strong culture that expected assimilation and that meant that their creations needed to wave the flag so that the guys writing and drawing them could avoid any form of persecution. Or so they felt.

Later once the counter culture aspects of comics were destroyed and the comics themselves were taken over by the military industrial complex the characters became nothing more than sigils and cyphers for the agents of control to use to keep the population docile. Same as music and fashion.

There's a deeper point about this that runs all the way through the Watchmen, demonstrated if you just read the "news" and "interviews" elements. Ask yourself how many of them are accurate.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Flying Tiger wrote:
There's a deeper point about this that runs all the way through the Watchmen, demonstrated if you just read the "news" and "interviews" elements. Ask yourself how many of them are accurate.


What?

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