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 Post subject: Re: Knot Tops
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:24 am 
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Crimebuster
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Or hopped up on ignorance. Either one.

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 Post subject: Re: Knot Tops
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:37 pm 
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Minuteman
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H4XGD wrote:
Or hopped up on ignorance. Either one.

Or both. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Knot Tops
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:48 pm 
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I see. Hollis's death to me was one of the saddest as he was a completely innocent old man who had worked hard in order to make the world a better place. Also you see much of the Watchmen world through his eyes in Under the Hood.

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 Post subject: Re: Knot Tops
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:04 pm 
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I agree with Bernard. &, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they beat him under the suspicion that he was involved with the tenement fire rescue, before he busted Rorschach out of prison.

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 Post subject: Re: Knot Tops
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:21 pm 
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J. Kovacs wrote:
I agree with Bernard. &, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they beat him under the suspicion that he was involved with the tenement fire rescue, before he busted Rorschach out of prison.

Nope. They never mentioned the fire rescue.

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 Post subject: Re: Knot Tops
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:37 am 
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Thanks, Curiosity Inc.

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 Post subject: Re: Knot Tops
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:19 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
J. Kovacs wrote:
I agree with Bernard. &, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they beat him under the suspicion that he was involved with the tenement fire rescue, before he busted Rorschach out of prison.

Nope. They never mentioned the fire rescue.


Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Chapter VIII, pg. 13, panels 2-6.

Derf was just an ignorant asshole who hated superheroes. That's all there is to it.


For the record, Ch.VIII, pg.13, p2-6 is where Derf mentions the tenement fire rescue. Its part of the sequences that gets him all riled up.

Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Alfonso wrote:
One thing that always confused me was, how did Dan know the Knot-Tops killed Mason? Did I miss the part when he found out? He and Rorshach just show up at Happy Harry's and it seems that he (Dan) know's the Knot-Tops were responsible.
Chapter X, pg. 15, panel 7.

Rorschach is interrogating at Happy Harry's. Nite Owl approaches a Knot-Top acting suspiciously. The Knot Top talks back.

Knot Top: "I heard the news. Blaming that Mason guy's murder on knot tops, I thought 'Shit! Like they needed another excuse to hassle us!'"


This was more to topic as posted. At Happy Harry’s, Nite Owl II (Dan) was ready to kill the Knot-top upon hearing about Mason’s death, and threatened to bring the entire fire power of Archie upon the whole neighborhood. Not all Knot-tops are the same. Aline is a Knot-top, and a Urban Professional... just as not all “Weekend Warrior Bikers” are Hell’s Angels, but Dan was ready to get revenge on the first knot top he saw through guilt by association. That’s not much different than Derf and his KT-head gang taking revenge/justice out on Mason by association.

Personally, I considered Chapter VII as Hollis Mason’s chapter. The reason he was killed at the end was because he didn’t consider the consequences of his choices. His story had a parallel to Moe Vernon’s in Mason’s own book, “Under The Hood”. Moe surrounded himself with trinkets that he thought everyone else cared about, while ignoring his own wife, until his world crashed down upon him.

It was like Rorschach’s explanation about himself as a Vigilante to Malcolm Long in Chapter V, “We do not do these things because they are permitted… We do it because we are compelled”. Mason was the opposite. In “Under The Hood”, He decided to become a costumed hero, because it was a fad, and it was permitted. During the HUAC hearings, being a policeman, Mason was permitted to continue on as Nite Owl. After retirement, he allowed Dan to become his namesake, because it was permissible.

But when Dan donned the costume again after the Keene Act for the tenement fire, it was no longer permissible, and when Dreiberg engineered the prison break as Nite Owl, he was committing crimes under Mason’s namesake. If it wasn’t Derf’s Gang getting at Mason, it might well have been the police locking him up as a conspirator (Dan did call Hollis to tell him something was up).

That’s why the Blood over the eye motif was both over the Pumpkin and Hollis’ smashed picture. Moe Vernon was blind to his namesake Mrs.Vernon committing adultery, while Mason was blind about his namesake Nite Owl II committing crimes, until it came crashing down upon them both. After that introduction about Moe Vernon in “Under the Hood”, did anyone think that Mason’s own story would have a happy ending?

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