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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:35 am 
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Hey, all.

Talk in another thread had me thinking... there's no real definitive "annotated Watchmen" out there, and there's so much to annotate. So - can we do it?

What I'd like to do is collect annotations for each of these five categories:

  • Parallels
  • Things You May Have Missed
  • Allusions
  • Motifs
  • Historical Changes

For details and an example of what the annotations would look like, click here.

I would then place those annotations alongside the appropriate panel wherever possible, relegating the larger annotations (mostly the allusions) to the bottom margin. This would create, one page at a time, a genuine annotated Watchmen.

I put together four pages as a preview (page four is the best). (One) (Two) (Three) (Four)

I'd love to hear some feedback, and if you guys think this is a good idea, feel free to start hitting me up with annotation ideas for Chapter I only.


-TVM

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:40 am 
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I moved this here from the "Watchmen/Graphic Novel" thread.

The only catch that I see for this is that we couldn't actually put scans from the graphic novel onto the feature. Doing so would lead to the entire graphic novel being posted here, which is against site policy.

However, I like the idea of a fan-made annotated guide to Watchmen. If DD feels up to it, this could be a fascinating new feature for the site.

EDIT: Oh, and TVM? That was a superlative job you did for those examples. I love the look of them, and coding them by box color, smiley face, Rorschach blot, etc. was ingenious.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:55 am 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
The only catch that I see for this is that we couldn't actually put scans from the graphic novel onto the feature. Doing so would lead to the entire graphic novel being posted here, which is against site policy.

Yeah, thought that might be the case.

What if I downsized the pages so much that the text would be illegible? I could work with that format.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:58 am 
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*Cough*

Panel one. Second appearance of the smiley badge. (It's used in the chapter opener/mag issue cover).

Also, panel 4. Referring to Veidt's plan may or may not be a bit premature at this stage. How about a *More on this later. Though that might not work at all. This is the kind of thing you get after a re-read, not at read#1.

Nice work, VM, btw. 8-)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:07 am 
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Soupdragon wrote:
*Cough*

Panel one. Second appearance of the smiley badge. (It's used in the chapter opener/mag issue cover).

Doesn't count! :P

Quote:
Also, panel 4. Referring to Veidt's plan may or may not be a bit premature at this stage. How about a *More on this later. Though that might not work at all. This is the kind of thing you get after a re-read, not at read#1

Yeah, this is definitely going to be a "do not read until you've read Watchmen" type deal. You can't avoid spoilers when annotating the thing. Just the Gunga Din allusion annotation, for instance, implies that Rorschach dies.

EDIT: Another option - I could only include the panels being referenced, and cut out the rest. Granted, a lot of panels would be included, but it'd be kosher.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:53 pm 
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1) I like how you put it together.

2) Not quite what I expected, but I like it because it is different.

3) How will you accommodate loads of information when some pages have a LOT to talk about?

I think having some search capability would be good to have, as to reference (possibly to help avoid inconsistencies - fact checking). Would each "page" be 1 image?

Anyways, I like it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:15 pm 
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I think it's ambitious, TVM, but the examples you've posted are promising.

A couple of remarks:
1, as you've already suggested, there's no point in worrying about spoilers; quite the opposite, you have to embrace them without reservation. Put a disclaimer at the beginning advising users to read the book itself first. That'll give you more latitude when discussing the panels. The whole point of annotations is to show the depth of a work, and that can only be done when the reader of the annotation is seeing the work complete.
2, I'd be inclined to add an "intertext" list that allows people to mention the kinds of superhero narratives that Moore and Gibbons are deconstructing - "intertext" casts a wider net than "allusions." It would also allow people to note parallels with other Moore stories: for instance, the superhero's desire to recreate the world is a theme that Moore explores both in V for Vendetta and in Miracleman - and even in his last story for Swamp Thing.
3, a means to remark on the panel/page design and the braiding of images in Watchmen would be useful. You could note things like the symmetry of Ch5, or the enlarged panels that each of the major characters gets when introduced in Ch1.
4, could you scan the first page of Moore's issue #1 script with Gibbons's highlighting, just to show how maniacally detailed Moore's scripts are? Maybe through a link?
Finally,
5, I hope you also want to annotate the paratexts. They're full of their own complexities.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:27 pm 
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2. Moore alludes to things other than texts - don't worry, though, I'll file similarities to his other works somewhere. Intertext purely for Moore would be a little specific - for instance, I was personally tempted by a "religious allusion" box, since there are quite a few of those, but "allusions" works just fine.

3. That's what the "Parallels" box is for. I couldn't think of a better name for it (and it has a cool symbol!).

4. That falls under extra content more than the text itself.

5. On my schedule!


But before I go further than Page 4, I need a legal format that I can share with you all. Two options, I think:

1) Downsize the pages so that the text is illegible, which ensures that a reader would have to have a copy of Watchmen handy to appreciate it, but still provides a visual guideline for where things are.

2) Slice and dice annotated panels out of the pages and only include those.


If either of those options gets approval from DDC or Curi, I'll get to work.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Nice work, TVM. While it's far from complete, I'm a big fan of the existing "Annotated Watchmen" - perhaps we could contact the author and request to use his stuff as our framework, adding in the extra stuff we see?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:30 pm 
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TVM, Have you been here?

http://www.capnwacky.com/rj/watchmen.html

Its the Annotated Watchmen. I realize half the fun of doing this, is picking it all out yourself. But... this fan has done quite a good job. I read through it alongside the novel, and he didnt miss much. Im just thinking its a good place to start. btw... your boxes are bad ass. I encourage you to finish it, thats something Id like to read.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:36 pm 
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JorelEsquire wrote:
TVM, Have you been here?

http://www.capnwacky.com/rj/watchmen.html

Its the Annotated Watchmen. I realize half the fun of doing this, is picking it all out yourself. But... this fan has done quite a good job. I read through it alongside the novel, and he didnt miss much. Im just thinking its a good place to start. btw... your boxes are bad ass. I encourage you to finish it, thats something Id like to read.

Yeah, I saw that, but I also think he missed a lot.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:16 am 
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Well, if you don't do it in a wiki format, do it in a blog format so that we can at least argue/debate over each page :P

Also, i'd hate to say it but, don't just think about the text dude. The art is also CW. So if you infringe on that, it could be also be a problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:46 am 
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It's a massive undertaking. Eventually I was going to get the Annotated Watchmen on this site. Why don't I do that first, and then you can all recommend revision and additions as we see fit?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:59 pm 
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The problem, I would imagine, is that at some point you have to draw the line as to what is personally contrived as compared to what is blatantly intended. Looking at your sample pages, it seems you've shown remarkable restraint, but at what point does personal opinion come in to play?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:46 pm 
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Will wrote:
The problem, I would imagine, is that at some point you have to draw the line as to what is personally contrived as compared to what is blatantly intended. Looking at your sample pages, it seems you've shown remarkable restraint, but at what point does personal opinion come in to play?

Point well taken. Can we agree that the "official" Annotated Watchmen is neutral enough to post on this site "as is."

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:12 pm 
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I assume you've been here-

http://iat.ubalt.edu/moulthrop/hypertexts/wm/

Great annotation material.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:55 pm 
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T.V. wrote:
I assume you've been here-

http://iat.ubalt.edu/moulthrop/hypertexts/wm/

Great annotation material.

Yes, that link is posted in the analysis section on the main site.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:21 pm 
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Oops, sorry that I missed it there.

I figured you all had seen it. Excellent site here, DD!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:42 pm 
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Hi folks. Thought you might be interested in the following.

Over the last 10 years or so, I have been hacking away at a revision of The Annotated Watchmen. It's ready -- just in time for Zack's movie. Here's the link:
Code:
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/faculty/andrews/AnnotatedWatchmenV2/

It contains the history of the document, an overview of the whole thing, and then the HTML-ized and fully revised Annotated Watchmen V2.0.

Have fun!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Found an error on the section on the second page. Convinced me not to go further.

"Panel 8: We see how he got the scar in issue 2."


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