WatchmenComicMovie.com Forum

I'm still sore about the part where Brooklyn said that humans were more precious and better than chickens

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Say, Doc, did I ever tell you I'm the only metal that's liquid at room temperature?

"Chickens are above the law" ~ Smutty

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Oh yeah you're a chicken farmer.

Well like I said, human life is above animal life, sorry Morrissey, but it is.

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@RealSlimCAvery

I hope your condom doesn't tear one day, nor that the contraception pills give chance to the 2% possibility of pregnancy, neither do I hope the next-day-pill fails to do it's job, or that the UT gynette contraception device does not work.

Otherwise, you'd find yourself in the awkward position of having to consider the value of choice.

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If the condom tears or the pill doesn't work or whatever, I'll be ready for it. Because I know that those are fallible contraceptive methods, and I knew beforehand that there was a chance of those failing. I'm not going to run away from the consequences of my actions like irresponsible people do. So no, I won't be on the awkward (read irresponsible) position of having to consider the value of choice after I did it, because I already did the choice before it.

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Well, looks like somebody needs to get laid.

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Say, Doc, did I ever tell you I'm the only metal that's liquid at room temperature?

Beg pardon. When I wrote about babies that weren't wanted, I meant to include babies that would pose significant health risks to the mother or to the child if they were carried to term. Seems to me that those generally aren't wanted.

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This is truly a madhouse. And I'm the lunatic running it. I've spent three years wondering if I should be proud or ashamed.

Why is it that I always get the impression that pro-life supporters are always virgins ?

No contraception method is 100% effective, even the most effective ones, which are precisely condoms and contraceptive pills, are 97-98% effective, that means that every time you have sex, you're gambling, granted, it's a big gamble at aproximately 1 to 100, but it's there, and no matter how many condoms you use, or how many pills you take, you are still bound by chance.

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Or not. Just because I accept the consequences if they ever happen, does it mean I'm a virgin? It hasn't happened now, but if it happens, I won't "run away".



Exactly.

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I accuse most pro-lifers of probably being virgins because people who have sex know the most of basic of sexual education, part of that education encompasses understanding that the most effective methods to prevent disease and conception, condoms and pills, are not a sure bet that you won't have to make a choice in the future.

Also, be real and have a little respect for the people who "run away", you think there's no psychological burden or trauma for women that have abortions ? You think it's easy for them to make that choice ? I wonder precisely what you would think of women who can't even afford contraception pills, that's life for you friend.



Sense. Any of it is not present here.

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No, he's saying that you have it right, it's a gamble, and when people gamble they are eventually going to lose. that being said, when a person loses at a poker table they don't reach across to grab the money back and say "I didn't want to lose" and then leave, you have to deal with the consequences of your actions, in that case losing money in the case of broken condom/failed pill you have a life that was created.

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@RealSlimCAvery

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I don't think you guys understood what I said.

Are you seriously telling me that one has to neglect choice over your own life even if the most effective methods ever made to this day are bound by failure ? Please, don't insult my intelligence by suggesting abstinence.

What if the baby is born as the product of intercourse where the pill failed in a one-night stand, should the people involved marry ? Even if they don't love each other ?

What if the child was born in a poor area in which he will have incredibly limited opportunities to succeed in life ?

What if the parents don't want their child to be born with a crippling congenital defect or disease ?

If you answer yes to any of these questions, then you don't really value life, you just value your own opinions.

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The choice is made before they have sex.



No, I don't have any respect for people who "run away". Why should I? Nobody is obliging anyone to make an abortion. If they are doing it, it's their choice. Therefore, their fault. Unless the father is "running away" from the "mother", which in that case, he should be punished.



Oh, but it's easy to have sex with no worries of the consequences, right? If some women don't have money for contraceptive methods, why have sex then?



It is, and Dr. Brooklyn has explained it above.

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No, it's not, because you can't control the effectiveness of the methods.

Like it or not, people have the right to do whatever they want in their bedrooms, and responsibility is not thrown out the window because they chose the most effective methods.



I hope one day you have the guts to say those opinions in front of women who didn't run away and made the responsible choice of not giving their children a bad life.



So people shouldn't have sex unless they can afford it ?

Oh, but these methods shouldn't be used, according to you, because the failure rate still lays the fault on the yet-to-be parents.

Please sir, tell me, do you support abstinence then ?



He has to, your arguments are absurd and contradictory.

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1) we're not talking about marriage, just abortion/life. They have to know the risks, unless they are really that stupid they know their actions have consequences, if they get pregnant they knew that it was possible. I'm not saying they should marry but that baby shouldn't be denied life just because the parents messed up.

2) So babies born into poor areas should be aborted? If we work off that prinicple, then you could begin to say that only people with a good life should live, therefore... it's okay to kill poor people because they wouldn't have material goods or a chance to succeed. I know you're going to flip out over this, but this is essentially what you're saying, if the baby will be poor it's life doesn't really matter.

3) this is the only one i can even semiconcede to.

We don't value life ebcause we think every baby should have a right to be born? Right... Feli, I think you're late to a fight with superman

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@RealSlimCAvery

Precisely. That's why you have to make a choice before, and not after.



Responsibility is thrown out the window because they chose to ignore the fact that those methods are not 100% effective.



Responsibility is being able to accept the consequences of your actions. If they don't want children, then they shouldn't take risks.



Again, people should be able to accept the consequences of their actions.



No. According to me, these methods' effectiveness shouldn't be taken for granted.



I support responsibility. If abstinence is the solution for some people, so be it.



What? Please name them, then. Where am I being absurd or contradictory?

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The whole point is precisely that they didn't mess up, she was taking contraceptive pills, and many times she even took the next day pill, responsibility is out of the question here.



Excellent way to twist my words, you really outdid yourself this time.

What I said was that people shouldn't be judged because they make a choice on their own lives and the possible live of their fetuses, I live in a country where a former president, Alberto Fujimori, gave the order to send medical teams to perform sterilizations on aborigin women in exchange for food.

It was a horrible, immoral decision, which to this day I do not support.

That doesn't mean women shouldn't have the right to look around themselves and say "My child will suffer in this place, I know he will", and then make a decision that an unborn fetus can't make.




You don't value life because you, in defiance of all logic, think life ends at birth.

Many pro-lifers like to brag about how much they value life, but as soon as the baby is born, they stop giving an actual shit.

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that is a horrible abuse of power, that being said people need to take this stuff (.e. living conditions) into consideration before they have sex. Humans are one of the only animals that have sex for pleasure, and it boils down to just because I can doesn't mean I should. Having children is a life changing event. Think of sex as russian roulette, you have a chance of life and a chance of death... but you know that before you partake of the action




Excellent way to twist my words, you really outdid yourself this time.

Honestly, how do I think life ends at birth? explain this to me




Yes, this is exactly my stance. Whether you abstain or not is up to you, but if you have sex, you are willingly* taking a risk if you throw the dice and the roll is unfavorable... you have to live with it.

*yes, I know there are cases of rape/incest that account for less than 1% of all abortions performed in america, but it's still of note.

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@RealSlimCAvery

I was wrong on this one, I'm sorry.

I realize now that not only do you not value life, but also freedom of choice.

If you don't think that forcing a mother to subsequently force her child to live a life that no one wants to live, then you simply don't value life, but you're also supporting an act of negligence, by denying the mother her rights, as well as the child's.

A lot of people that share your thoughts on this issue never talk about investing money and resources into sexual education, or in government (even privately) funded adoption programs, they don't support the distribution of condoms or contraceptive methods in schools and universities, and they actively try to force teenagers into defying nature by telling them that the right thing to do is abstain.





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I can't believe I'm reading this shit, this is absolutely outrageous.

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