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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:31 pm 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Ones that there isn't proof there should be a trial, but can we really try them under american law? shouldn't they be tried by the laws of their homelands instead?


That's not how being a prisoner of war works. If we send them back to their home countries they'll be set free with no trial at all.

Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
Keep in mind, they aren't a part necessarily of our legal system, they don't have the protection of a citizen, they don't have the rights to a fiar trial explained in our consitution... because they aren't citizens. That's the biggest point of consideration.


Geneva Convention.

Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
But there's got to be a reasont hey would claim that he planned to kill thousands of people, the government didn't just stroll down the street of Anytown, USA grabbing people and sending them to Gitmo, they generally had reasons.


The majority of them are probably guilty of something, you're right. The problem is they aren't all guilty of the exact same crime ("you gonna kill us all!") and they don't all deserve the same punishment ("rot in jail forever!").

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:22 am 
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Four words, folks: "Innocent until proven guilty."

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:18 am 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Four words, folks: "Innocent until proven guilty."


Exactly; if they really are horrible monsters it'll be proven in a court of law. We're no better than them if we let them sit around in a jail forever because of some twisted Rorschachian revenge mission.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:50 pm 
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BlackDoomShadow wrote:
You're assuming they're guilty without a trial. That isn't how the legal system works. Additionally, not everyone in Gitmo is some radical Muslim terrorist from Afghanistan.


And I mean, aren't some of the supposed terrorist detainees children? I personally don't think there should have been children imprisoned for ties to al-Quada at all. They're children, for Christ's sake.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:23 am 
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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
"a woman can do with her body what she wants"


Rant Mode ON

I'm certainly not a machist, but this comment really bugs me, it's incredible how some people manage to twist an issue like abortion in a completely different direction.

Rant Mode OFF

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:33 pm 
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BlackDoomShadow wrote:
If you want to know the voice of dissent against Obama, look no further than your local e-mail inbox:

"OBAMA a TERRORIST?
Did you know that Barack SADDAM HUSSEIN OSAMA BIN LADEN Obama is actually a TERRORIST?
He was NOT BORN IN THE UNITED STATES HE WAS BORN IN ANTARCTICA!
And I have the LOW QUALITY .JPG TO PROVE IT!
According to the Bible chapter ten verse seven lines 2-3:
"And He the Lord said that the ANTICHRIST would be born in those places REMOVED FROM THE WORLD"
Antarctica is pretty removed don't ya think!
If this isn't clear enough HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN LIKE SADDAM HUSSEIN THE TERRORIST!
And he's also MIDDLE EASTERN!
Even though he was born in Antartica he died and was reborn in the Middle East just like Jesus except he's the ANTICHRIST!
Pass this on to EVERYONE YOU KNOW
We can still SAVE AMERICA!"


Well said my friend, well said, and my wife is afraid once I put on my Rorschach mask that I'm gonna do something stupid :oops:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:31 pm 
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BKC wrote:
BlackDoomShadow wrote:
If you want to know the voice of dissent against Obama, look no further than your local e-mail inbox:

"OBAMA a TERRORIST?
Did you know that Barack SADDAM HUSSEIN OSAMA BIN LADEN Obama is actually a TERRORIST?
He was NOT BORN IN THE UNITED STATES HE WAS BORN IN ANTARCTICA!
And I have the LOW QUALITY .JPG TO PROVE IT!
According to the Bible chapter ten verse seven lines 2-3:
"And He the Lord said that the ANTICHRIST would be born in those places REMOVED FROM THE WORLD"
Antarctica is pretty removed don't ya think!
If this isn't clear enough HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN LIKE SADDAM HUSSEIN THE TERRORIST!
And he's also MIDDLE EASTERN!
Even though he was born in Antartica he died and was reborn in the Middle East just like Jesus except he's the ANTICHRIST!
Pass this on to EVERYONE YOU KNOW
We can still SAVE AMERICA!"


Well said my friend, well said, and my wife is afraid once I put on my Rorschach mask that I'm gonna do something stupid :oops:


That doesn't make Obama any less of a fraud.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:34 pm 
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How exactly is Obama a fraud again? ^

Quote:
you don't need a government


And by the way...oh my god someone said this!?!?!?!?!

You do realize how much you depend on the government right?

Right!?!?!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:06 am 
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Godziller66 wrote:
How exactly is Obama a fraud again? ^


how isn't he a fraud?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:12 am 
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WJK wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
How exactly is Obama a fraud again? ^


how isn't he a fraud?

What kind of logic is that?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:27 am 
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Godziller66 wrote:
How exactly is Obama a fraud again? ^


Well, most deffinitely he will turn out to be a fraud, his political carrer is not coherent with what he has been doing all along, he said that he would need two terms to "fix" the economy. He won the elections simply by appealing to the people's resentment for the previous administration and to the fact that he was black, and that somehow that made him different from all the other candidates.

In the end, it doesn't matter how the american supporters of Obama put it, most of them voted for him simply because he was black. period.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:03 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
How exactly is Obama a fraud again? ^


Well, most deffinitely he will turn out to be a fraud, his political carrer is not coherent with what he has been doing all along, he said that he would need two terms to "fix" the economy. He won the elections simply by appealing to the people's resentment for the previous administration and to the fact that he was black, and that somehow that made him different from all the other candidates.

In the end, it doesn't matter how the american supporters of Obama put it, most of them voted for him simply because he was black. period.

So now it's that "most deffinitely he will turn out to be a fraud"?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:24 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:

In the end, it doesn't matter how the american supporters of Obama put it, most of them voted for him simply because he was black. period.


half black.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:43 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
So now it's that "most deffinitely he will turn out to be a fraud"?


Alright, kill me then :lol:

But it still doesn't change the fact that there is nothing about Obama that will make him worthy of anyone's admiration, nor of anyone's approval.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:20 pm 
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80% of black voters have consistently voted for the Democratic candidate for the last 20 years. Obama's support didn't come from the black community, it came from the youth.

EDIT: Also, it doesn't make sense to say that "most Obama supporters voted for him because he was black" because African-Americans are a minority group. A minority group somehow outvoted the white majority who apparently all voted for McCain? Have you looked at 2008 election demographics sheet before, or is this one of those "O'Reilly-Beck Talking Points" memos that gets circulated around Fox News's bathrooms?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:34 pm 
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BlackDoomShadow wrote:
80% of black voters have consistently voted for the Democratic candidate for the last 20 years. Obama's support didn't come from the black community, it came from the youth.

EDIT: Also, it doesn't make sense to say that "most Obama supporters voted for him because he was black" because African-Americans are a minority group. A minority group somehow outvoted the white majority who apparently all voted for McCain? Have you looked at 2008 election demographics sheet before, or is this one of those "O'Reilly-Beck Talking Points" memos that gets circulated around Fox News's bathrooms?


I didn't say that most of Obama's supporters WERE black, what i said was that most of them voted for him because HE was black, people thought that a candidate who was not republican and was not white was actually qualified for the job, and Obama, like the talented politician he is, compared himself at every opportunity he had with Bush, in all honesty, i think it was a pretty good move to get elected, after all the americans were mad about the previous administration.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:31 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
I didn't say that most of Obama's supporters WERE black, what i said was that most of them voted for him because HE was black, people thought that a candidate who was not republican and was not white was actually qualified for the job, and Obama, like the talented politician he is, compared himself at every opportunity he had with Bush, in all honesty, i think it was a pretty good move to get elected, after all the americans were mad about the previous administration.


And Obama is the first politician in history to compare himself to a disliked predecessor?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:04 pm 
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BlackDoomShadow wrote:
And Obama is the first politician in history to compare himself to a disliked predecessor?


Of course not, but are you more interested in knowing how bad the other guy was ? or are you more interested in what the new guy is going to do to really differentiate himself from the other guy ?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:18 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
BlackDoomShadow wrote:
And Obama is the first politician in history to compare himself to a disliked predecessor?


Of course not, but are you more interested in knowing how bad the other guy was ? or are you more interested in what the new guy is going to do to really differentiate himself from the other guy ?

To do that wouldn't he kind of need to cite examples from the previous administration?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:31 pm 
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Let me bring up a point made earlier on this topic: Anarchy

Anarchy is great. Large-scale Anarchy in modern times sucks. Anarchy has worked, but it has never meant no law. There is usually is some form of government, such as an Anarchist's democracy or just the unspoken laws of society (ie. breaking these codes meant you were ostracized from society). In a small scale this worked brilliantly. Many Northern Native American tribes had this system in place. Many sub-Saharan African towns also had this. Sure, they sometimes had a council of elders, but it was more or less the will of the whole village/ town/ tribe. The thing is, most of these systems were also communal. Which means they were COMMUNISTS to the layman. The goal was to get enough income to share to others. Politically it was an Anarchist's democracy, economically it communism the way Marx and Angels wanted it. Sure there wasn't a big revolt by the proletariats, mainly because there wasn't that much social stratification in those societies, but the concept is the same. Marx and Angel's ideal communism was an Anarchist Communism. No political party distributing the resources like in Leninism and Maoism, just society and the good will of the people themselves.

Over the years I've come to realize that system would probably never work, just because of the scale and some modern values. I mean I would love to have that system in place, but with such a large population, and the extreme global integration of the economy it wouldn't work for obvious reasons.

You would think libertarians would be a lot closer to Anarchists than Communists are, and theoretically they are, but most of the time they are just republicans who stopped being socially conservative. I'm pretty sure that's going to be a new trend. The GOP is eventually going to become the Libertarian party or just die out. Sure there will always be people who are socially conservative but as time goes on that will matter less and less with much more dire issues being debated. The reason why Libertarianism sucks is because we know purely free market capitalism doesn't work. Sure it eventually fixes itself, but how long is it going to last? How many lives are going to get ruined or destroyed before the market fixes itself? That's why we have anti-trust laws, etc.

The was a really big issue for me last year. I was always thinking in my head: Should we give our power to a corrupt government or the evil corporations? Capitalism was awesome. Adam Smith knew what he was talking about. But Joint-Stock companies pretty much fucked everything up. The sole purpose of a corporation is to make a profit for it's share holders. If it can't achieve that, it dies out. In a functioning republic, the people are ultimately are in charge of their government. No matter how crappy their current government is, when the next term comes, they can replace the bureaucrats, as long the bureaucrats don't completely disregard the nations constitution. Corporations on the other hand are solely responsible to their share-holders. Since we can't go back to a much simpler time, such as 8000 B.C.E, we can choose whether we want to be ruled by corporations or government.

I know what some of you more savvy free-market capitalists would say. If you don't like the company, don't buy their product. So I ask you this. When you buy your clothes, do you know who makes them? No, not the brand, but who actually puts it together? Let's say your even buying name-brand stuff, who puts it all together? Do you think about that? What about your produce? Ever wonder how comparatively the stuff is pretty cheap? The clothes I'm betting were made in a sweat-shop somewhere in China, along with all the other miscellaneous stuff that's made there. The produce was probably harvested thanks to a couple of illegal-immigrants. Now when you buy that, do you really think about who made it and how? When you're buying it, your usually just thinking about price and quality. This means it's in the consumer's best interests to buy those goods. Even if the production includes things, the consumer doesn't support, what they care about is the price, or they don't think about how the good was produced/ manufactured.

Basically you're under the mercy of big business. It would be foolish to give corporations all the power. Government protects us from corporations, at least that what it should be doing. You could argue that at times, the government is in the pockets of corporations, but no matter what the people have more say over the government then they do over big business.

Now there was my rant against Libertarianism. On to my rant against Social conservatism ( or at least America's version).

Basically it's retarded, in the most literal sense of the word. Why shouldn't gays get married? Dick Cheney said this much himself when referring to gay marriage: "Freedom means freedom for everyone". Now I understand freedom isn't a big part of American History with all the slavery and racial inequality, and the decimation of an entire group of people (Native Americans). but if you're going to preach, at least stick to it.

Abortion. Abortion is not the same as infanticide. In the first month, a fetus in nothing short of biological matter that will "eventually" become a human person. It can't think, it is not sentient, it has no desires, no goals, no thought process, hell even ant thinks more. How many of you feel remorse when stepping on an ant? Oh it's not human you say? It doesn't eventually grow up to be a human baby you retort?

Then I ask you this. If your argument hinges on the fact that the said fetus/biological gunk eventually becomes a human, doesn't that mean using contraceptives is also "killing babies". Think about it. When your using a condom, your stopping the sperm from reaching the egg. This means you're are stopping a potential baby from being born. At the point of conception, the potential human has nine months to go before it is born. Lets have flashback, the sperm is still en route to the egg. This means the potential human has nine months and minute before it becomes born. Now if you're using a condom that human will never be born. What was the difference between the scenarios? It was a difference of a minute. A minute before, it's okay to kill the potential baby, but a minute later, it becomes the equivalent to baby killing? Bullshit. Once a sperm reaches the egg, all the zygote is...is biological mass.

Now most of the people who are pro-life state that the soul comes in contact at the point of conception. That whole argument is based on religious interpretation. I think religious interpretation has fucked enough things up. Better to abort, then to have a child suffering and dying a slow and painful death, in a setting that can't support him/her.

Now I'm not advocating people go abortion crazy, in my opinion it's always better to use contraceptives. But if woman wants to abort, it should be her choice.

America was founded on secular ideals. Our founding fathers believed strongly in separation of church and state. Let it stay that way.


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