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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:44 pm 
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NiteOwl wrote:
In ME2 I loved all the missions on Omega.
They were kinda peripheral but I loved the atmosphere of run down space stations and such. Kinda claustrophobic on the lower levels.

In ME3, the planet where you face off against the reaper with just the targeting beam?
I loved that because the payoff was pretty cool. Felt like a badass in full.
And the way that mission escalated was indeed really nice.

I played through it really really fast though.
Both actually. I never even stopped for a second playthrough on ME2, but I'd like to buy it again to play and have a save to import into ME3, upon which I'll play that one through again. Taking my time a little more on both.

And yeah I do agree about being a space 007.
I remember thinking that in ME2 where you had to dress up and get into that rich guy's party... for that heist?
That was fun.


Maybe I didn´t word it right or am not understanding your post right, but ME2 was when I said we were space Michael Knight.A
Although in retrospect, space John Reisman(suicide mission with 12 elements, and even Bioware knew that with the Dirty Dozen trailer) mixed with space Danny Ocean(the private enterprise bit).

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:58 pm 
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NiteOwl wrote:
And this is why it's not fun discussing stuff with you.
Because you go into it like a fight.


I didn't go into anything "like a fight", you came here and found out you got more than you bargained for, you posted what was basically a written high-five, I challenged it, you couldn't measure up, you made excuses to justify your refusal to discuss, and thus I mocked you, deal with it.

Now to have a discussion with someone who actually gives a damn about the topic.

RuiBK wrote:
Let me start out with the very basic. This only began to be a true war on 3. Up until then we were space 007(working with a "government" mandate and tracking down threats to the greater good), and on ME2 space Michael Knight(backed by private entities, doing stuff goverment mandated units should). Yes, we were soldiers(on 2 we could be considered mercs), but never fighting a war.


Nope, many decisions in both ME1 and ME2 handled the "sacrifice" theme quite abruptly, an example, saving the council, and thus having a weaker force against Sovereign or letting the council die and increase your odds of destroying Sovereign, another example ? Killing the rachni queen and ensuring without question that war with the rachni was never to come, or risk a violent outcome in the future by letting her go.

The concept of loss and gain was always part of Mass Effect, thus, it is completely fitting that the ending reflects so.

RuiBK wrote:
the space Jesus concept evaporates...


Not at all, in fact, Shepard "falls" three times before he ascends to The Crucible, further reinforcing the idea that the ending is indeed a metaphore about the current relationship between science and religion.

RuiBK wrote:
As to the second paragraph, one would exepct a multitude of endings, ranging from complete and utter failure, to unabated sucess, much like ME2 did. That is what the series is know for. Choice of diferent outcomes. You most of not gotten that memo. What we got was what was underserving, in the sense that we picked the same ending with 3 diferent colors.


First, yes it is true that this game was indeed in some need of a "lose" ending, something that reflected what defeat could've meant, and that is a flaw I can perfectly accept, however, I don't feel okay about judging the developers on what they could've given me, by those standards you can tear anyone apart, aside from that, you do have endings that reflect poor performance, much like what happened in ME2.

Second, about ME2, let's be clear about one thing about the "endings" of ME2 and the ones of ME1:

They are all variations of a singular outcome.

Yes, I fucking said it.

ME1 --> Sovereign is destroyed, The Citadel is saved. (changing variables include ruling party and change of scenery depending paragon/renegade meter)

ME 2 --> The Suicide Mission succeeds (changing variables include the handling of the collector base, squadmate's death, Shepard's death)

ME 3 --> The Crucible activates, flaws aside, this is the only set of endings that don't encompass a singular outcome.

Now, we can all complain, legitimately so, about how the cutscenes all look very similar, which isn't nice at all, but to to say that the three endings of ME3 are the exact same outcome is simplifying what is intended to be a matter of thought and reflection.

RuiBK wrote:
But that isn´t the problem in on itself. Blah blah blah

This did not happen in ME3.


I could give you a pass on this on the grounds that the ending didn't resonate emotionally with you.

However, it was emotionally satisfying to me...........so where does that leave us ?

RuiBK wrote:
As to the last paragraph, let me guess, you are saying that based exclusively synthesis, right?


Not really, who knows where galactic races (organic, synthetic.........new ?) will go now that The Crucible has been fired and The Reapers been dealt with, nothing holds The Milky Way back now !

Now.......barging into other discussions :) !

RuiBK wrote:
So, wise and all-knowing Feli, what´s your favorite part in ME1,ME2 and ME3?


Everything surrounding the quarians was pretty damn solid too in ME3, The Geth Dreadnought, Legion's mission, some assignments on Tuchanka weren't exactly phenomenal, but pretty much everything on Rannoch was quite......insane.

Still, my favorite moment in ME3 is of course this little image, forever engraved into my skull:

Image

In ME2, yeah, Lazarus was pretty insane, you really feel like you're waking into a living nightmare, great great opening mission, as for the best loyalty missions, perhaps Mordin and Garrus', though most of them are phenomenal.

As for DLC, what is "SM" ? I'm also surprised you'd rank Lair last, personally I think Overlord is inferior, yeah, awesome ending and all but everything was behind was not as good as Lair.

And yes, complete agreement about ME1, the game really shines inside the ship, most specially with conversations with Wrex and Ashley, personal taste.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:25 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
NiteOwl wrote:
And this is why it's not fun discussing stuff with you.
Because you go into it like a fight.


I didn't go into anything "like a fight", you came here and found out you got more than you bargained for, you posted what was basically a written high-five, I challenged it, you couldn't measure up, you made excuses to justify your refusal to discuss, and thus I mocked you, deal with it.

You're such a douchebag. Challenged? Measure up? Mocked? What the fuck man?
It's a discussion forum not a fucking Fight Club.

Chill out. Pull your panties out of your ass crack, and untwist them.
Cause you're the most unpleasant guy on here. And for absolutely no reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:12 pm 
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NiteOwl wrote:
You're such a douchebag. Challenged? Measure up? Mocked? What the fuck man?
It's a discussion forum not a fucking Fight Club.

Chill out. Pull your panties out of your ass crack, and untwist them.
Cause you're the most unpleasant guy on here. And for absolutely no reason.


Hit it Justin !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DksSPZTZES0

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:32 pm 
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...

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Clearly, the two of you have some frustrations to work out. Might I be so bold as to suggest beating the crap out of each other over some online multiplayer game? I'm sure it would be more productive than hurling verbal abuse at each other on this forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:07 am 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
...

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Clearly, the two of you have some frustrations to work out. Might I be so bold as to suggest beating the crap out of each other over some online multiplayer game? I'm sure it would be more productive than hurling verbal abuse at each other on this forum.

I'd be up to that or something.
But I don't understand why he approaches conversation like he's defending his 'turf' or something. Or trying to prove something.
Just this totally aggressive attitude. For no good reason.
I doubt this is directed solely towards me. I just can't stand it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:22 am 
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feliciano182 wrote:
blah,blah,blah


Well, for starters, for a guy that his all knowing, you really could have read that paragraph of ME2 better. I say that the Suicide Mission is first, and later on I say that it´s still first, but now taking into account dlc.


Image


HIMYM gif overload after HIMYM marathon lol


As to the sacrificies you described, all optional. The "inevitable losses of war" they are not,ergo not reflecting of the idea of this grim sci-fi tale you make ME to be.

As to the religion/science paragraph,you giving them too much credit. If anything they were Neo-ing Shepard. Revolutions was their inspiration.

And your description of ME2 goes against your idea.You say that there´s two ways to the Collector base,yet same shit? Diferent thresholds of sucess.Plus, fucking optional death in the second game of a trilogy.And ME1 was the same on the surface, but then again it was dealt in a satisfacting way. Saren didn´t say "You won." If anything, when he kills himself he acknowledges his mistake, but the problem is that Sovereign isn´t down with that.

Wich makes to my next point. It´s not a question of emotionaly engaged or not.That´s not the problem. It a larger issue.
Fact: the Mass Effect series is a game. And because of being inserted in that category,it needs to be able adhere to some tenants of the category. One is that one needs to have a sense of payoff. Mario killed Bowser or whatever is fucking name in order to save the princess. Bowser didn´t say to him "Shit,you got here. Here, take the bitch.".
And applying this to ME1 and ME2, it still rings true. Sovereign bowed to us. We saved the Citadel by opposing his will. We destroyed/pacified the Colletor base much to Harbinger´s chagrin. In ME3, up until our "encounter of the third degree", everything was on track. And then the kid shows up, he tells that since we got there, he´s gonna step down. But the thing is, while he says we´s gonna step down, we can only do what he allows us to do. Shit man, yeah, there´s no such thing as true freedom of choice in games, but most time games of this kind mask it. In this case they fucking rubbed it in our face, with that being agravated by what they show us they an do in ME2.



And yet again I drag myself to these kind of disscusions when I promised myself I wouldn´t do it.Well, atleast it´s here and not on BSN. Moving on...



Well, has said before, SM is Suicide Mission. As to the reason why I put Overlord before, I guess because it´s more tragic I guess? But I will say that it´s not that much a diference. 1 extra point for the Cain and Abe angle, bigger duration, smaller price.But then we get Dracon trade center, Vasir, Vasir pursuit, and the Broker´s ship and the Broker himself.And the incredible music for both dlcs.

Fuck, too fucking good to decide over one. I change my opinion to a dual second spot.

But I will say that those 7 and 10 euros(dollars/whatever equivalent to everybody´s country) I payed for both were the best money I ever spent on dlc.


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:45 am 
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RuiBK wrote:
Well, for starters, for a guy that his all knowing, you really could have read that paragraph of ME2 better. I say that the Suicide Mission is first, and later on I say that it´s still first, but now taking into account dlc.


Ah! Now I get it.

I would say The Suicide Mission is a landmark in videogaming if anything, the sheer tension brought forth by every single moment, coupled with such an incredible soundtrack is nothing short of outstanding, I still get goosebumps every time Joker tries to maneuver through the debris field with the background track playing, it's simply astonishing.

RuiBK wrote:
As to the sacrificies you described, all optional. The "inevitable losses of war" they are not,ergo not reflecting of the idea of this grim sci-fi tale you make ME to be.


C'mon, that is not optional, if you save The Council, thousands of human lives and resources are lost in the attempt, you can let them die, but the decision itself can't be avoided, and neither can some degree of loss. Same for the rachni queen, you need the coordinates of the Mu Relay, you WILL meet the rachni queen, you will make a choice.

It's all about sacrifice, and it's always been there, even in the ending.

RuiBK wrote:
As to the religion/science paragraph,you giving them too much credit. If anything they were Neo-ing Shepard. Revolutions was their inspiration.


Despite what you might think, Mac Walters has read quite the lot of Arthur C. Clarke's work, and it shows ridiculously in how he handled the Mass Effect saga, just consider The Catalyst and then watch the ending of 2001: Space Odyssey, and what about Thessia ? In the temple of Alune (sp), consider Clarke's famous phrase:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

I don't think it's that crazy to call a religious metaphor when Shepard is seen falling three times, and then rising to the stars, only to meet a god-like being who will ask him to make a galaxy-changing decision.

You can even go further, visually, Shepard stands taller than The Catalyst, which could imply that the successes of scientific knowledge have outdone superstitious-magical-religious thinking, thus, by means of scientific and technological prowess, humanity has moved on from all forms of knowledge that hold it back and harm it, like Sagan himself called that type of knowledge, "The Demons of Humanity".

Which also makes me wonder................Reapers = Demons ? I remember a rumor I heard once about how The Reapers were based on lovecraftian demons, in that sense, is it so crazy to believe someone was on to something in regards to Mass Effect ?

RuiBK wrote:
And your description of ME2 goes against your idea.You say that there´s two ways to the Collector base,yet same shit? Diferent thresholds of sucess.Plus, fucking optional death in the second game of a trilogy.And ME1 was the same on the surface, but then again it was dealt in a satisfacting way. Saren didn´t say "You won." If anything, when he kills himself he acknowledges his mistake, but the problem is that Sovereign isn´t down with that.


Wether it was dealt in a satisfying way or not is up to us to decide, it's a matter of subjective judgement, so yes indeed, this is an issue about emotional resonance, which arguably the ending of ME3 didn't have, that doesn't mean however that the ending was crap, I at least am trying to make the argument that there is much to think about in those final scenes, much to ponder and reflect on.

I don't.................remember The Catalyst aknowledging your victory.

Also, even if The Catalyst was supposed to be looked at in the same way as Saren and Harbinger (which it isn't), why is it so unsatisfying that he watches over your victory ? I really don't understand this argument.

RuiBK wrote:
the Mass Effect series is a game. And because of being inserted in that category,it needs to be able adhere to some tenants of the category. One is that one needs to have a sense of payoff. Mario killed Bowser or whatever is fucking name in order to save the princess. Bowser didn´t say to him "Shit,you got here. Here, take the bitch."


"A sense of payoff" is as subjective as you will ever get in this life friend, I'm not trying to say you're opinion is illegitimate, by no means, but you can't say "x" woman is ugly because she has curly hair, that's a subjective judgement you're very well entitled to, that doesn't mean women with curly hair are actually, objectively ugly.

Frankly, I did got my payoff, I saw an ending in which The Cycle Of Extinction ended, at a high cost, but at the same time with the highest reward for all the living beings in the galaxy, everyone can truly move on now.

RuiBK wrote:
And applying this to ME1 and ME2, it still rings true. Sovereign bowed to us. We saved the Citadel by opposing his will. We destroyed/pacified the Colletor base much to Harbinger´s chagrin. In ME3, up until our "encounter of the third degree", everything was on track. And then the kid shows up, he tells that since we got there, he´s gonna step down. But the thing is, while he says we´s gonna step down, we can only do what he allows us to do. Shit man, yeah, there´s no such thing as true freedom of choice in games, but most time games of this kind mask it. In this case they fucking rubbed it in our face, with that being agravated by what they show us they an do in ME2.


I think this is the first time I see a complaint that fries my balls a little.

I mean, it's okay to like stories to adhere to certain conventions (macho protagonist, romance, evil mustache-twirling villain), but when you're actively criticizing a game for basically not being "tropey" enough, I think you're screwing up.

The final scene with The Catalyst was meant to be a conversation and a deliberation about the galaxy's worth in the face of an evolutionary problem, you were meant to look at the bigger picture, at the conflict, more than you were at things like "You're the bad guy ! As the hero, I must end you !" or some other bullshit like that.

RuiBK wrote:
Well, has said before, SM is Suicide Mission. As to the reason why I put Overlord before, I guess because it´s more tragic I guess? But I will say that it´s not that much a diference. 1 extra point for the Cain and Abe angle, bigger duration, smaller price.But then we get Dracon trade center, Vasir, Vasir pursuit, and the Broker´s ship and the Broker himself.And the incredible music for both dlcs.


Here goes another sinful thinking of mine:

I think Kasumi's Stolen Memory is better than Overlord.

*Waits for seizure to pass*

I think it's better balanced than Overlord, the only thing I think the latter has got going for it is that ending, which yes, it's deffinitely astonishing but.......it's just that. With Stolen Memory you get a cool little "Hitman Style" mission, a fantastic sequence in Hock's museum with some great lore, and one of the best squadmates, sure, it's short as hell, but wasn't it worth like 800 MS points ?

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:59 pm 
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http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/new ... ed-61.html

RIP Zaeed Massani.

Thank you for giving your voice to one of the most badass/enjoyable characters I had the pleasure of playing alongside in a game. A toast indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:09 pm 
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RuiBK wrote:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news/a456561/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-actor-robin-sachs-dies-aged-61.html

RIP Zaeed Massani.

Thank you for giving your voice to one of the most badass/enjoyable characters I had the pleasure of playing alongside in a game. A toast indeed.


Sad news indeed, I share in this toast as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:05 pm 
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RIP Robin Sachs

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:31 pm 
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WELL WELL WELL ! What do we have here ?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... disservice

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:50 pm 
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"No, because the game does not have to come after. Or before. Or off to the side. Or with characters you know. Or yaddayaddayadda."



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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:27 pm 
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RuiBK wrote:
"No, because the game does not have to come after. Or before. Or off to the side. Or with characters you know. Or yaddayaddayadda."



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Or.....................it's another galaxy 8-) !

It's all possible at this point, even a reboot of all things.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:09 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
RuiBK wrote:
"No, because the game does not have to come after. Or before. Or off to the side. Or with characters you know. Or yaddayaddayadda."



Image


Or.....................it's another galaxy 8-) !

It's all possible at this point, even a reboot of all things.



In which case it shouldn´t be called Mass Effect. Heck, I dare say they could hit the jackpot if they sold this new thing as a new IP. While I don´t understand it, many people suffer some anti-sequelitis.


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:17 pm 
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RuiBK wrote:
In which case it shouldn´t be called Mass Effect.


Why not :o ?

RuiBK wrote:
Heck, I dare say they could hit the jackpot if they sold this new thing as a new IP. While I don´t understand it, many people suffer some anti-sequelitis.


Hmmmmm, the same but not the same ? Mass Effect seems rather specific, I'm personally not against new Sci-Fi IP from Bioware, but if you're just going to do Mass Effect........then call it Mass Effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:29 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
RuiBK wrote:
In which case it shouldn´t be called Mass Effect.


Why not :o ?

RuiBK wrote:
Heck, I dare say they could hit the jackpot if they sold this new thing as a new IP. While I don´t understand it, many people suffer some anti-sequelitis.


Hmmmmm, the same but not the same ? Mass Effect seems rather specific, I'm personally not against new Sci-Fi IP from Bioware, but if you're just going to do Mass Effect........then call it Mass Effect.



If it´s a new galaxy,it´s not inhabited by none of the species we know, so why call it that?


As to the second bit, everything is derivative of everything. Heck, keep it in space, but instead of hard science like eezo,mass effect, and sentient half machine/half organic enemies, venture into supernatural and magic.


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:07 pm 
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RuiBK wrote:
If it´s a new galaxy,it´s not inhabited by none of the species we know, so why call it that?


Oh god, no turians and krogans :cry: !

The general concepts would remain though, hard science fiction, star-trek style space travelling, moral conflicts, politics, war, etc.

RuiBK wrote:
As to the second bit, everything is derivative of everything. Heck, keep it in space, but instead of hard science like eezo,mass effect, and sentient half machine/half organic enemies, venture into supernatural and magic.


..............................

What the fuck man :lol: ?

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:40 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
RuiBK wrote:
If it´s a new galaxy,it´s not inhabited by none of the species we know, so why call it that?


Oh god, no turians and krogans :cry: !

The general concepts would remain though, hard science fiction, star-trek style space travelling, moral conflicts, politics, war, etc.

RuiBK wrote:
As to the second bit, everything is derivative of everything. Heck, keep it in space, but instead of hard science like eezo,mass effect, and sentient half machine/half organic enemies, venture into supernatural and magic.


..............................

What the fuck man :lol: ?


Bold: That shit is not exclusive of Mass Effect.


As to the fuckery, I will leave you with this thing called "The Force".


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:48 pm 
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RuiBK wrote:
Bold: That shit is not exclusive of Mass Effect.


It kinda is in videogames.

And personally, it does it much better than any other mediums, closest as I've been able to get to Mass Effect, in television, is with Battlestar Galactica; Star Trek may very well be like ME, but I haven't seen that yet.

RuiBK wrote:
As to the fuckery, I will leave you with this thing called "The Force".


Well, I haven't been taking Star Wars seriously for a loooooooooooooong time.

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