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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:36 am 
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About the gun control laws, I'm saying by tightening them that not only checking for any criminal records, they should (eg. police stations) make periodic mental tests just to check the person's sanity. Also, at first people should pass a special test to apply for a gun license and the police (who gives decides whetever to give a license or not) should have the rights to have/check all information about the person's health information, medical records etc. Not the gun shops but the authority. And this guy was healthy individual? RIGHT. UMM, NOT. No one who is healthy from the head doesn't go to a movie screening with very powerful weapons, start shooting randomly people (children and a 3-month-old baby), get bombs and boobytrap his whole flat. I'm not saying that very strict gun laws will prevent these massacres 100% but it still will prevent a lot of these from happening. People who are not healthy individuals usually seems like they are perfectly healthy individuals, but when you look deeper to them and get to know them they are not. That's why the periodic tests (not the ridiculous ones over the internet) should help too. Of course there are the ways to get illegal guns but they are not as easy to get as someone would think, if you don't know the right people, etc. Also, they cost much more than legally way bought gun. Because if these massacres keep happening with the loose gun laws, authorities will be having frisk searches and metal detectors before entering movie theaters, shopping malls, etc. That's just my guess but it sure looks like it will happen if these massacres keep happening too. We did tighten our gun control laws after two massacres. It's sad it took two massacres to get people react. What's more saddening is that, it always takes something awful to happen make people even react.

Mourning is ok. Everyone should take the time they feel they have to. Talking about it, helps a lot and that's why usually people talk about it when something shocking / awful happens.


Last edited by Ninjet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:23 am 
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Like MovieDude said, no fucking way heavy duty weaponry like thr Ar-15, the Remington 870, on top of tactical gear like the vest and tear gas grenades should available to civilians. PMCs, security firms, yeah, but the regular citizen should make due with a fucking sidearm.


Nolan´s reaction:

"Speaking on behalf of the cast and crew of The Dark Knight Rises, I would like to express our profound sorrow at the senseless tragedy that has befallen the entire Aurora community.

I would not presume to know anything about the victims of the shooting but that they were there last night to watch a movie. I believe movies are one of the great American art forms and the shared experience of watching a story unfold on screen is an important and joyful pastime.

The movie theatre is my home, and the idea that someone would violate that innocent and hopeful place in such an unbearably savage way is devastating to me.

Nothing any of us can say could ever adequately express our feelings for the innocent victims of this appalling crime, but our thoughts are with them and their families."


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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:24 am 
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Nolan wrote:
The movie theatre is my home, and the idea that someone would violate that innocent and hopeful place in such an unbearably savage way is devastating to me.

Exactly how I feel.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:55 am 
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Was anyone surprised that the shooter was taken alive? That's not normally the case. Either they kill themselves, or they get killed by the police. Out of curiosity, how was he captured?

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:01 am 
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TheMovieDude wrote:
I'm just shocked he could get something like an AR-15. That gun is used by the killers from the cartels. But also, the tear gas? The bulletproof vest? How can a normal citizen have access to anything like that? Hell, I can barely argue gun ownership given what I've been living here for the last four years but this is ridiculous.


there are certain military and civilian-grade versions of those items that people can have access to. i won't say it's unfortunate or bad (the second amendment allows us to own these kinds of guns legally), but since this guy used them for the wrong purposes i do believe some sort of restriction on buying them should be made.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:10 am 
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t3cii wrote:
Was anyone surprised that the shooter was taken alive? That's not normally the case. Either they kill themselves, or they get killed by the police. Out of curiosity, how was he captured?

Not really. He either chickened out or he planned it because he didn't resist the arrest. He would've been surely shot if he had threatened the police, which is an other way to commit a suicide if he wasn't able to do it.


Last edited by Ninjet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:29 pm 
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by all accounts he had an account on a dating site on which he said something like "will you visit me in prison" out something like that, so that kind of implies his plan was to be sent to jail, rather than killed.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:07 pm 
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It's good that they caught him. I always feel cheated when they shoot themselves. It makes it so justice can't be served.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Semi-related to this:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/if2nht


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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:04 pm 
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RuiBK wrote:

Semi-related? I think with any tragedy like this, gun control talk flares up naturally. Its very related.
But goddamn he certainly talked that shit out.
Worth reading for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:21 pm 
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RuiBK wrote:


I'm with George Costanza on this.

This quote, from someone who had responded to his tweet, infuriates me:

Quote:
: @BrooklynAvi: Guns should only be banned if violent crimes committed with tomatoes means we should ban tomatoes. OR @nysportsguys1: Drunk drivers kill, should we ban fast cars?


People can't be this stupid. We shouldn't have to live in a world where people are allowed to be this stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:40 pm 
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t3cii wrote:
RuiBK wrote:


I'm with George Costanza on this.

This quote, from someone who had responded to his tweet, infuriates me:

Quote:
: @BrooklynAvi: Guns should only be banned if violent crimes committed with tomatoes means we should ban tomatoes. OR @nysportsguys1: Drunk drivers kill, should we ban fast cars?


People can't be this stupid. We shouldn't have to live in a world where people are allowed to be this stupid.

You're right. Stupidity should be banned.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:48 pm 
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A very interesting article, with a lot of surprisingly good points.

The only place where I completely disagree with him is on this:
Quote:
Lastly, there are these well-intended realists that say that people like this evil animal would get these weapons even if we regulated them. And they may be right. But he wouldn't have strolled down the road to Kmart and picked them up. Regulated, he would have had to go to illegal sources - sources that could possibly be traced, watched, overseen. Or he would have to go deeper online and those transactions could be monitored. "Hm, some guy in Aurora is buying guns, tons of ammo and kevlar - plus bomb-making ingredients and tear gas. Maybe we should check that out."

First of all, as I've already stated multiple times, there was absolutely no reason to deny him weapons legally at the time. He was a post-doctoral student with no history of criminal activity or mental illness. Additional gun control might have stopped him from obtaining so many weapons so quickly, but that's it.

Secondly, the idea that illegal sources could be "traced, watched, [or] overseen" is ludicrous. Unless the authorities had already been watching that particular source for some time, I completely fail to understand how the feds would know what illegal arms deals were taking place. If anything, legal gun sales -- with permits, forms, registrations, etc. -- would lead to much more of a paper trail.

Thirdly, there's the matter of monitoring online transactions. This would mean that credit card companies and banks would have the power to monitor our financial activities and to relay that information to the government without our knowledge or consent. Now we're dealing with privacy rights, which are a whole 'nother can of worms.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
First of all, as I've already stated multiple times, there was absolutely no reason to deny him weapons legally at the time. He was a post-doctoral student with no history of criminal activity or mental illness. Additional gun control might have stopped him from obtaining so many weapons so quickly, but that's it.


And how do we know this ? Just because it wasn't obvious, doesn't mean he was submitted to proper psychometric evaluation to determine wether he was ill, nobody held any responsibility towards knowing if he had a mental issue that needed to be dealt with, it is pointless to jerk off to his academic record as evidence that he was a normal, well adjusted individual, intelligent people can be just as crazy.

Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Secondly, the idea that illegal sources could be "traced, watched, [or] overseen" is ludicrous. Unless the authorities had already been watching that particular source for some time, I completely fail to understand how the feds would know what illegal arms deals were taking place. If anything, legal gun sales -- with permits, forms, registrations, etc. -- would lead to much more of a paper trail.


It doesn't mean the government shouldn't assume responsibility for gun-related crimes.

How do we know this guy wouldn't have tried to vent his frustrations in some different manner had he found it so difficult to obtain a weapon legally ? I don't think it's specially easy to get weapons ilegally, even if he had done so, it would've been considerably MUCH more expensive.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:14 am 
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Okay, that does it.

He built up a 6,000-round arsenal over the internet without any waiting periods or psychiatric checks? And it was all completely legal under Colorado law? I'm generally not a fan of gun control legislation, but this is ridiculous.

That said, I'm still holding the staff of the Century 16 at least partly accountable. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it was a terrible ordeal for them to go through and they have my sympathies for that much, but somebody over there should have known enough to secure the goddamn emergency exits.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:24 am 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Okay, that does it.

He built up a 6,000-round arsenal over the internet without any waiting periods or psychiatric checks? And it was all completely legal under Colorado law? I'm generally not a fan of gun control legislation, but this is ridiculous.

That said, I'm still holding the staff of the Century 16 at least partly accountable. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it was a terrible ordeal for them to go through and they have my sympathies for that much, but somebody over there should have known enough to secure the goddamn emergency exits.


Secure them how? How exactly did they come into place?

Also, the Dudley Brown mentioned at the end of the article sounds like an asshole.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:58 pm 
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RuiBK wrote:



Well, someone needs their glasses checked, seeing as how the 2nd Amendment states two things:

1 - Militias can be formed if necessary for the state's protection
2 - The people have the right to bear and keep arms

Neither of these rights can be infringed upon. That's what the damned Amendment says. Only a simpleton would read that document as "militias maintain the right to bear arms, not civilians".


Should certain weapons be military or police only? Absolutely. That's why they created civilian versions of them (like the AR-15 is a civilian version of the M-16). Can stricter gun laws (and most likely will) come out of this event? Absolutely. As long as we still maintain the rights to buy weapons (even if it's something ridiculous like once a month), I could give less of a shit. Was there any reason for this kid to purchase a semi-automatic rifle? Not in the least bit. But don't restrict access just because of the unfortunate events. It was the acts of a lunatic that managed to keep a smile going that killed those people, not his ability to buy a semi-auto or a glock.


Ninjet wrote:
About the gun control laws, I'm saying by tightening them that not only checking for any criminal records, they should (eg. police stations) make periodic mental tests just to check the person's sanity. Also, at first people should pass a special test to apply for a gun license and the police (who gives decides whetever to give a license or not) should have the rights to have/check all information about the person's health information, medical records etc. Not the gun shops but the authority. And this guy was healthy individual? RIGHT. UMM, NOT. No one who is healthy from the head doesn't go to a movie screening with very powerful weapons, start shooting randomly people (children and a 3-month-old baby), get bombs and boobytrap his whole flat. I'm not saying that very strict gun laws will prevent these massacres 100% but it still will prevent a lot of these from happening. People who are not healthy individuals usually seems like they are perfectly healthy individuals, but when you look deeper to them and get to know them they are not. That's why the periodic tests (not the ridiculous ones over the internet) should help too. Of course there are the ways to get illegal guns but they are not as easy to get as someone would think, if you don't know the right people, etc. Also, they cost much more than legally way bought gun. Because if these massacres keep happening with the loose gun laws, authorities will be having frisk searches and metal detectors before entering movie theaters, shopping malls, etc. That's just my guess but it sure looks like it will happen if these massacres keep happening too. We did tighten our gun control laws after two massacres. It's sad it took two massacres to get people react. What's more saddening is that, it always takes something awful to happen make people even react.

Mourning is ok. Everyone should take the time they feel they have to. Talking about it, helps a lot and that's why usually people talk about it when something shocking / awful happens.


Come to New York, they pretty much have the strictest gun laws in the country (to the point that you have to carry your pistol license with you at all times, even if the gun itself is tucked away at home in pieces under your bed in a case, which it also needs to be when not in use).

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:57 pm 
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WJK wrote:
Neither of these rights can be infringed upon. That's what the damned Amendment says. Only a simpleton would read that document as "militias maintain the right to bear arms, not civilians".


And how the fuck are those rights are infringed in any way by making sure crazy people don't get those weapons by legal means ? Why is it so wrong to have your guns registered and have you go through proper mental examination and background check ?

How can anyone even argue against that ? HOW ?!

WJK wrote:
It was the acts of a lunatic that managed to keep a smile going that killed those people, not his ability to buy a semi-auto or a glock.


I'd like to see you shoot down 12 people and injure 60 with a knife, go ahead, convince me that an automatic assault rifle is as equally dangerous as a blade or a car.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:39 pm 
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... How did I argue against that? I stated that I'm all for mental examinations and proper background checks.


And yeah, he killed people with a gun. It's not the gun's fault, it's his fault. You should probably try rereading what I wrote.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aurora Massacre
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:42 pm 
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WJK wrote:
And yeah, he killed people with a gun. It's not the gun's fault, it's his fault. You should probably try rereading what I wrote.

Well, it is his fault, but he wouldn't have been able to do it without the gun.

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