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I was thinking about this the other day, and I found a bit of a paradox. You'd think that videogames would have the most potential for art, as you are immersed in the world. However, if you don't wan't to bore users out of their wits, the characters have to have clear motives. You can't make a videogame about people in deep moral dilemmas. This severely limits the versatility and depth.

Tim Schafer once said that video games are like porn: The story should be there, but only as a set up for what the audience really came for.

Yes, I absolutely think that video games can be art. If you think that a video game about "deep moral dilemmas" can't be made, then you clearly haven't played "Shadow of the Colossus."

Besides that, I don't think that video games need characters with "deep moral dilemmas" for the game to be considered art. "Killer 7" is a fine example. And what about "Okami?" That was art.

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This is truly a madhouse. And I'm the lunatic running it. I've spent three years wondering if I should be proud or ashamed.

Cyan brought us Myst way back. I really liked that game. I consider Myst a work of art.

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Absolutely. The franchise turned to crap after that, and the game was very simplistic, but sure. It was art.

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This is truly a madhouse. And I'm the lunatic running it. I've spent three years wondering if I should be proud or ashamed.

...or Bioshock, as an obvious example! I really think games have got really strong recently - HL2 and Portal are pieces of art, as well as highest quality entertainment.
And yes, Myst is definitely art. No question in my mind.

Then again, more than any other medium I think the majority of video games aren't art.

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Ok, I'm not a gamer at all and haven't played any of those games. I was just talking theoretically. How do those games pull off the good plot along with interestingness to play?

Okay the easiest example is Bioshock. Bioshock puts you in this underwater world - a failed Utopia - it starts in a somewhat familiar plot. But its real genius is that there are these little girls around. Zombie girls, that is, who are protected by machines called Big Daddies. They go round taking stuff out of bodies. But you need that stuff too. The trouble is when do you start attacking the girls? Does it seem morally wrong to you? Are you afraid of the Big Daddies (who are nearly impossible to beat!)?
Regardless you are forced into attacking them.
I can't go further without ruining the game, but the end is the finest in video game history, really examining at the philosophy of gaming.
In the Matrix 10 disc set (I own it, I admit!), there's a doc on philosophy of video games, particularly looking at SIMs.
Now I wouldn't consider SIMs art, it does throw up a lot of interesting ideas.

Okay quickly round the other games - Myst is art because of its visuals mainly, but it also has a terrific mystery behind it. Portal is the gaming equivalent of Plato's Cave...
HL2 is the foremost of the anti-totalitarian games, more entertainment than art, but art nonetheless.

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Thank you, AYB. I shall now state the case for Shadow of the Colossus.

In this game, you play an anonymous Wanderer. On horseback, he brings an anonymous dead Maiden to a temple in the middle of a huge field. At the temple, he makes a deal with an unknown God. If the Wanderer goes out into the surrounding land and kills 18 Colossi, the Maiden will be revived.

It sounds like your basic video game plot. But as the game progresses, we find out *the temple is forbidden, the God is actually a demon and the Colossi only exist to keep the demon at bay. As the Wanderer kills each Colossus, his body decays and the demon starts to possess him. In other words, you (as the Wanderer) unknowingly bring yourself to a slow and painful death just for playing through the game. Oh, and the Wanderer knowingly disobeyed his village elders and brought the Maiden to the temple and the demon for his own selfish lust.*

Now tell me that isn't art.

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This is truly a madhouse. And I'm the lunatic running it. I've spent three years wondering if I should be proud or ashamed.

Nice. Okami was fantastic. Very original.

I'd like to throw in Katamari, and The Suffering.

Absolutely. A video game be considered art.

Like many mediums, so much of it is formulaic crap, but a few games do break that mould.

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Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music - George Carlin

ICO and Shadow of the Colossus were art. Both are the best games I have ever played.

What about Psychonauts?
I never played it, but from what I heard about it...

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*wild applause*

I'm not sure that Psychonauts could be considered art. I know it could be considered a funny and clever story with damn enjoyable gameplay. But art? Hmm... up for debate, I guess.

On the other end of the spectrum, there's Dreamfall and its predecessor, The Longest Journey. Chances are you've never heard of either game. But still, there's art in video game form if ever I saw it. In fact, they are the rare kind of game where story takes precedence over fun gameplay. Probably the reason they never sold well.

Oh, and how could any of us forget NiGHTS? Not that crappy Wii abomination of a sequel, I'm talking about the Sega Saturn original. Not only did it have fun gameplay, but it had an open-ended story completely without text. That was art.

And finally, Beyond Good and Evil. Another masterpiece artwork of a game that nobody played.

I encourage each and every person reading my words to find these games. With the exception of NiGHTS, many of them can still be found and played on PC, if nothing else. Still, if you want proof that video games are art, these and "Shadow of the Colossus" are the finest examples I know of.

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This is truly a madhouse. And I'm the lunatic running it. I've spent three years wondering if I should be proud or ashamed.

Freeware games can be art too - the best freeware game i've ever played is Knytt (there's a sequel now, called Knytt Stories)
In the gaming community I've heard the two are very much considered modern art (if they weren't they'd be really crap!)

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Hehe, I have those three, too.

As for being art, I can agree. Though a lot of games are derivative, either by gameplay or story. Stuff like Myst or ICO — peculiar imagination stretchers — are few and far between. I played ICO (or the beginning of it) on a PS2 they at at work way back. Beautiful game.

I would love to spend more time exploring the "artistic" qualities of more modern games, but both my console and my PC are pushing retirement. (Along with me I guess).

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