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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:03 pm 
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If there's anything i got from Bubastis is Veidt's determination to reach his goals.

Nothing will stand in his way, not even the only living being that was his "friend".

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:17 pm 
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I find it sad and ironic that he killed his only friend to stop one obstacle that only came back sorta pissed off. (Which is saying a lot for Jon)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:47 pm 
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Cartman Blues wrote:
I find it sad and ironic that he killed his only friend to stop one obstacle that only came back sorta pissed off. (Which is saying a lot for Jon)

I always found that part to be very sad. I'm not quite sure if it packs the same emotional punch in the movie or not.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Cartman Blues wrote:
I find it sad and ironic that he killed his only friend to stop one obstacle that only came back sorta pissed off. (Which is saying a lot for Jon)


"I am dissapointed Veidt, Very dissapointed"

Man, one of my favorite lines from the comic :lol:

I think that Bubastis was a piece of the puzzle about who Ozymandias really was, men like Ozy will stop at nothing to achieve their goals, and if that means killing friends and strangers, millions of them, then so be it.

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 Post subject: Sleep of Reason
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:36 pm 
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From Goya's Los Caprichos, 1799 (and used by Moore, Bissette and Totleben in one of their early Swamp Thing comics). It's a classic figure for the Gothic: the Spanish text translates as "the sleep of reason produces monsters." Look at the lower right hand corner and tell me that isn't a source for Bubastis.


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 Post subject: Re: Sleep of Reason
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:00 pm 
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RLS wrote:
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From Goya's Los Caprichos, 1799 (and used by Moore, Bissette and Totleben in one of their early Swamp Thing comics). It's a classic figure for the Gothic: the Spanish text translates as "the sleep of reason produces monsters." Look at the lower right hand corner and tell me that isn't a source for Bubastis.

Wow. Nice find. :) I'd definitely say that's a source for Bubastis. The quote could also go along with Adrian's logic of saving the world devastating so many people's lives.

This thread wasn't stupid after all. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Sleep of Reason
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:32 am 
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RLS wrote:
Image

From Goya's Los Caprichos, 1799 (and used by Moore, Bissette and Totleben in one of their early Swamp Thing comics). It's a classic figure for the Gothic: the Spanish text translates as "the sleep of reason produces monsters." Look at the lower right hand corner and tell me that isn't a source for Bubastis.


WOW :shock:

Great find man!

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 Post subject: Re: Sleep of Reason
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:56 pm 
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RLS wrote:
Image

From Goya's Los Caprichos, 1799 (and used by Moore, Bissette and Totleben in one of their early Swamp Thing comics). It's a classic figure for the Gothic: the Spanish text translates as "the sleep of reason produces monsters." Look at the lower right hand corner and tell me that isn't a source for Bubastis.


The kitty is defiantly a mold for Bubastis. OWLS! And a bat...Rorschach?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:05 pm 
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Cartman Blues wrote:
I find it sad and ironic that he killed his only friend to stop one obstacle that only came back sorta pissed off. (Which is saying a lot for Jon)

I agree, I found Bubastis' death really sad because she was effectively the only thing Veidt ever loved. And it didn't even work which made her death pointless, much like the deaths of the New Yorkers. That is, if we're to assume the whole "journal got published" thing about the final panel.

Just to refer to the earlier colour tangent, I think Bubastis was meant to be orange. The way the light hit her made her look purple I think. I was using the last panel of chapter 10 as a reference. Damn it, that wasn't relevant I'm sorry. >.<
Hey, I was listening to Bryan Ferry's These Foolish Things just there and he kept singing the line "Oh how the ghost of you clings!" Yay Watchmen orientated mindset.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:16 am 
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Godziller66 wrote:
Cartman Blues wrote:
I find it sad and ironic that he killed his only friend to stop one obstacle that only came back sorta pissed off. (Which is saying a lot for Jon)

I always found that part to be very sad. I'm not quite sure if it packs the same emotional punch in the movie or not.


Certainly upset me, but then I have a soft spot for animals, particularly felines. Can't really see Ozy shaving off an eyebrow for Bubastis though....

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:03 pm 
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Alea iacta est wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Cartman Blues wrote:
I find it sad and ironic that he killed his only friend to stop one obstacle that only came back sorta pissed off. (Which is saying a lot for Jon)

I always found that part to be very sad. I'm not quite sure if it packs the same emotional punch in the movie or not.


Certainly upset me, but then I have a soft spot for animals, particularly felines. Can't really see Ozy shaving off an eyebrow for Bubastis though....

Did you read the book first?

Also, thank you for reviving my seemingly dead thread.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:27 pm 
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Curiosity Inc. wrote:
Secondly, let's remember that Bubastis was not born, but pretty much built. Genetically engineered in one of Veidt's laboratories. Considering that Bubastis is the only living creature that Veidt seems to trust completely, this implies that Veidt is nigh-incapable of making friends unless he's literally making them.

It's also worth noting that Bubastis is pretty much an overgrown housecat, and nobody really buys a pet unless they're looking for a constant, unconditional means of love and/or entertainment. I mean, look at X.7.3. Most pet owners I know kneel for their pets on occasion (much as Laurie does in IV.21.3), but Veidt doesn't. He doesn't even move to pet her, he just allows her to eagerly lick his hand.


This is a pretty good insight into Veidts persona. Veidt viewed himself as a mastermind, if not THE mastermind. He had nothing in the world that he could trust outside of Bubastis, and he probably didnt want anyone. This gives some credence to the importance of the animal. especially that shortly before the plan had hatched, he chose to kill him. You're telling me that the world's smartest man couldn't devise a plan that didn't include killing Bubastis, his only trusted "friend"? I liked where you said that Veidt doesnt even move to pet Bubastis. He showed no affection towards the animal whatsoever. what do you think that represents?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:30 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
Cartman Blues wrote:
I find it sad and ironic that he killed his only friend to stop one obstacle that only came back sorta pissed off. (Which is saying a lot for Jon)

I always found that part to be very sad. I'm not quite sure if it packs the same emotional punch in the movie or not.


I don't think it did either, probably because we saw so little of her in the film compared to the novel. It was more just cool to look at in the film compared to the novel where I'm just learning now it held a bit more symbolism.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:16 pm 
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Last edited by People Must Be Told. on Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:42 pm 
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People Must Be Told. wrote:
littlebernie wrote:
I don't think it did either, probably because we saw so little... in the film compared to the novel. It was more just cool to look at in the film compared to the novel where I'm just learning now it held a bit more symbolism.

I for one appreciate the irony inherent in such a statement being made by an actor who actually portrayed one of the characters whose sanitized celluloid deaths were by far and away the most removed from the comic book source material in terms of symbolism and emotional impact.


I agree with you, however I think given the medium Snyder was using, he maintained pretty loyal to the book. I think when he included the bernie death scene in the theatrical cut it was intended for the fans who knew their backstory, rather then for the general public who did not. In the U.C he did a pretty good job of portraying their relationship. There is a huge list of things that he merely referenced in the movie that hold a lot more meaning in the original novel, bubastis and the bernies included.

Basically what I'm saying is that you can only cram a certain amount in 2 hours and 45 minutes. Even that was enough to make general audiences get squirmy. I still commend him for including things like that, if only for the fans or the novel to gawk at.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:54 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
Alea iacta est wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Cartman Blues wrote:
I find it sad and ironic that he killed his only friend to stop one obstacle that only came back sorta pissed off. (Which is saying a lot for Jon)

I always found that part to be very sad. I'm not quite sure if it packs the same emotional punch in the movie or not.


Certainly upset me, but then I have a soft spot for animals, particularly felines. Can't really see Ozy shaving off an eyebrow for Bubastis though....

Did you read the book first?

Also, thank you for reviving my seemingly dead thread.


I read the book first yes. No problem, I always found Bubastis interesting; mostly because of my pondering over how she was genetically created. I was also rather amused by how she was yet another trapping of luxury that Ozy had; why have a household cat when you can have Bubastis....

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:09 pm 
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Alea iacta est wrote:
I read the book first yes.

Kay I was just wondering because that would certainly factor into your feelings of seeing Bubastis killed in the movie.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:44 am 
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Godziller66 wrote:
Alea iacta est wrote:
I read the book first yes.

Kay I was just wondering because that would certainly factor into your feelings of seeing Bubastis killed in the movie.


Actually when I was watching it with a friend I thought "Uh no here comes that scene" and said friend laughed a little at my being upset over it. The special effects used made it all that much more upsetting too. Yeah, basically, I'm a big softie.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:58 pm 
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I read the book first, and I love animals too. Bubastis' death was upsetting for the reason all unnecessary animal deaths are: they are innocent, they have no capacity for evil, and most of the time (unless for food) animals die because of the selfishness and petty problems of humans.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:24 am 
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I was pretty shocked by the scene in the book but when watching the movie, I knew it was coming. Of course, that pretty much applies to every part.

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