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So it's time I get this off my chest on this forum. I've tried similar discussions on others, but ignorance is much too prevalent elsewhere. Keep in mind, I really want you guys to discuss this topic. I want to hear opinions, personal stories, questions etc. Here goes:

Question: Is racism becoming too open in our country?

My answer is, inevitably, yes. The issue of immigration for example, has brought racism out into the open disguised as "patriotism."
Obama being elected has made "nigger" a common word of discontent from the right wing public.

It is all too clear to me that despite our president's election, our country has not moved past racism and bigotry one bit.

My biggest problem is indeed from the immigration debate. It has become a means for white America to attack Mexicans and hispanics with racism without anyone acknowledging it. The "minutemen," along with right wing america has come to see the attacks on hispanics as "patriotism." BULLSHIT. Yet whenever I bring up this point, white americans seem to think I'm completely wrong. "You're making it too personal," they tell me. "We have nothing against you, just the wetbacks coming over here."

And yes, I'm quoting that word for word from a woman I spoke to a few years ago.

They tell me that they have nothing against Mexicans, just "illegals." Then why the fuck do they look at me like a terrorist when they hear me speak spanish? Why do they talk behind the backs of every Mexican they see? Why do they automatically assume that every Mexican they see is an "illegal?" Because they're RACISTS. And why do they openly refer to Mexicans as spics, wetbacks, and beaners?

"Oh but you're not a spic, you're here legally." That's like saying the black lawyer is an African American, but the black guy who's having a hard time paying his bills is a nigger.

Then people tell me that they've never heard people use a racist term against Mexicans. Well here we go again.

I am very light skinned (as many Mexicans are), so to whites I don't look Mexican. I speak English with no accent whatsoever, so whites don't think I sound Mexican. There have been hundreds of times, and I'm not exaggerating, when I'm standing right next to someone if not having a conversation with them, and they start saying how Mexicans are the scum of the earth, and how illegals should all be put into concentration camps, and that these spics are taking jobs, smuggling drugs, joining gangs, and murdering people. several times, I've been involved in conversations with classmates in which they begin saying how much they'd love to go to the border with rifles and snipe Mexicans crossing the border. They didn't say illegals, they said Mexicans. Then when I proceeded to ask them, "what if you saw kids or something?" They replied "I'd shoot them too. no one gives a fuck about Mexican kids. They're like rats."

Well that's real nice. Then comes my favorite part of the conversation. "You do know I'm Mexican don't you?" I ask them. "You were born here though, weren't you?" "No, I was born in Mexico, and moved here when I was 7," I tell them, eagerly awaiting their reply. My favorite was "Well you don't look Mexican." End of conversation. Every other time has been the same old "It's ok, you came here legally. You're cool."

Well FUCK YOU. I'm a MEXICAN. When you talk about shooting us, and how were scum, and how illegals should all die, you are attacking ME. You are threatening ME. You are saying I should be put into concentration camps. You are calling ME a spic, a beaner, and a wetback. Like I said, FUCK YOU.

I've heard every racist thing imaginable at immigration rallies. Keep in mind that my examples aren't just from stupid teenagers and classmates, but from adults and senior citizens too. I'm sick of my people being treated like this. I don't care whether their documented or undocumented. THEY ARE MY PEOPLE. Every case of racism I see against a Mexican, I take it personally.

Here's something else I should mention. I was at a seminar dealing with immigration issues, in which speakers from different professions (artists, lawyers, teachers, etc.) gave their opinions on the issue, and explained how immigration affects them. All of them were on my side.

The reason why I bring this up is because of something very peculiar the lawyers said. Not only are undocumented immigrants being put in jail for years before their deportation, but some of them AREN'T EVEN IMMIGRANTS. Many are either Naturalized Citizens of the US, and some were even born here, but were locked up anyway. I wonder why? Could it be because they spoke Spanish? Could it be because their skin is darker? Could it be because they listen to a Spanish radio station? Could it be because of how they dress, or because they have an accent?

I'll let you take a wild guess.

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Mexicano Al Grito De Guerra

It has forever been engraved in my mind an interview i saw on youtube, an interview done by none other than Bill O' Reilly, in this case, he had invited Geraldo Rivera to his show, i remember that the topic was about an illegal mexican who killed a woman while driving under the influence of alcohol, there was much fighting on this interview, there was screaming, it got VERY personal.

Geraldo's Argument --> The reason why that happened, why the woman was killed by the driver, was because the man was driving under the influence of alcohol.

Bill's Argument --> The reason why that happened, why the woman was killed by the driver, was because the man was an illegal who entered the US without papers.

If somebody had told me of what Bill O' Reilly had said in that interview, then i wouldn't have believed it, i cannot fathom how any individual can be that ignorant, it was just too much, yet the reality is that he, Bill O' Reilly, a middle aged Harvard graduate and host of a television show was indeed thinking like that, it was truly a tragedy, because many times if there is one, then there are many.

It's a reality, many individuals in the US are racist, they discriminate people because of their ethnicity, traditions, culture, behavior, etc. It's actually an incredible paradox, since the US is "The Land Of Inmigration", it's a country that was founded by british who were migrating from their motherland, it's a country who's police was developed by the italians, whose labor came from irish, africans, etc. And yet racism exists, and why ? there are many reasons, but this unfounded racism can be atributed to sheer ignorance, lack of education, and the example set by the leaders of the US, it is sad how they put excuses to not legalize inmigrants, when in reality it is nothing more than racism.

I could recommend you, diego1234567, that the opinion of ignorant people is not worthy of your attention, as an example of my life (sadly not one related to rascism) i could tell you that i was mad about Oliver Stone's documentary in which he praises Hugo Chavez, but i am not, because if anyone tells me that they love Chavez just by seeing Stone's documentary, then i know that i can't bother myself with an opinion from a fool who created an opinion simply by watching one film, in your case, you shouldn't have to worry about people talking behind your back about being mexican or saying that they would shoot mexican people in the border (see if they would), because their opinions are simply not worth your disgust, anger, etc.

Then again, it's not that simple, it is a possibility that one of those kids who wanted to shoot people from the border decides and achieves his goal of becoming president of the US, in that case, his opinion on mexicans and inmigrants would matter a lot.

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Here's the thing: Immigration brings about social changes. And no matter how small and gradual the changes, no matter how rational they are and no matter how many demand them, there will always be a group of people who have grown fat and happy with the status quo. There will always be a contingent of citizens who are so comfortable with the way things are that they will fight to the bitter end to preserve it, no matter what price others will pay.

And so the "status quo" folk become scared of losing their lives in comfort. This leads to fear, which leads to paranoia. In such times, what they really need is a bogeyman.

It's so very tempting to think that if only we could throw out every illegal immigrant, the economy would instantly right itself. If only we could imprison all of the black people, we'd have less gang violence and fewer kids getting high. If only all of society's ills were caused by a single monster and if only we had a silver bullet to kill it.

The problem with this line of thinking is that it deals strictly in simplicity, and to paraphrase a man far wiser than I, to say that the solution to a problem is simple is much like saying that the solution to a problem is Bigfoot. In the real world, simplicity and Bigfoot occur with roughly the same frequency. Our problems are far too many and varied to be blamed on any one scapegoat.

In brief: There is a large contingent of people who want to preserve the status quo that they have become comfortable and satisfied with. This preservation requires action, which requires motivation, which is brought about by fearmongering. Hence the racism.

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This is truly a madhouse. And I'm the lunatic running it. I've spent three years wondering if I should be proud or ashamed.

All valid points. This is just the kind of discussion I was hoping for.

To add to my experience, about 90% of the illegal immigrants I have met pay all their taxes in full. People love to throw around their opinions that illegals are ruining the economy (like your example, Curi), when in all probability the economy would completely crumble without them.

Another complaint is that they join gangs. I've yet to see any immigrant from Mexico in a gang. Most are hispanics who were born here in the US. Drug dealers and gangs who ARE from Mexico, usually operate on the border, going back and forth from Mexico to the US. I wouldn't really consider them immigrants.

Back to my example of the sociopaths who want to shoot us, it's unbelievable and yet completely understandable that their comments are ignored in school and in the community. But can you imagine what would happen if ANY foreigner were to claim they wanted to kill Americans going to Mexico?

Gotta love those double standards.

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Mexicano Al Grito De Guerra

Well, the workforce would certainly crumble.

But here's something else to consider: If so many illegal immigrants are willing to pay taxes in order to live here, then why the hell aren't they here legally?! I mean, it can't be for lack of trying. If these people are willing and able to sort through all their tax forms every April, it's preposterous to suggest that they wouldn't go through the necessary steps to get a green card or citizenship. I can only assume that it's a problem on the U.S. government's side of things, and that needs to be fixed pronto.

On a related note, I just read that Hurricane Rick is a category 5 now. I wonder how much aid America is going to send to Mexico when it hits.

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This is truly a madhouse. And I'm the lunatic running it. I've spent three years wondering if I should be proud or ashamed.

There is no real way to come here legally. What I mean is, there's no "true" path to come to the US. I'll get back to explaining it when I figure out how, but it;s true.

What worked for my mom, for example, may not work for another person trying to do it the same way. I'll have to talk to her about it, since she knows much more about the processes than I, and explain it in more detail.

And no, it's a problem both from the US and Mexico.

Believe me, they try and try, but can't find a way to make it here legally. Indeed it is not a lack of trying. It's a lack of possibility.

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Mexicano Al Grito De Guerra

It's funny because i once was seeing a comedy stand-up show by many mexican-american comedians, the show was hosted by Cheech Marin, and like i said it's funny because the last one to enter the stage was Paul Rodriguez.

Paul Rodriguez made a joke about the Columbine shootings, saying that stuff like that had already happened in public schools, he then went on with the punchline and said that Columbine was noticed because "white kids have good aim".

But, like any good joke, it is partly true, something is only a problem in the US when a single or a group of particular important individuals are affected.

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do remember this diego when you see someone discriminating: outside influences. most people will have seen someone's opinion, then stuck to its asshole like a dingleberry.

in short, blame their parents.

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Hahaha. Nice image.

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Mexicano Al Grito De Guerra

UPDATE:

I spoke to my mom and did some more research and this is what I came up with.

There are only 4-5 ways to get into the US legally.

1. Family - If you have immediate family in the US, you can come live with them. This means if your parents are legal citizens of the US, but you live in Mexico, you can come over AS LONG as you're 21 and under. Once you reach 22, the governments see you s an independent adult, and you can no longer come over to the US. This also applies for husbands and wives.

The most common problem that happens with this is that the parents here will fill out the paperwork and complete all the legal stuff when their kids are say 16 or 17 (just as an example). By the time the paperwork is cleared, their kids will be over 21 and the papers will no longer be valid.

If the kids get married before or at age 21, it also voids the paperwork. I've heard from people in the community that their papers have taken as much as 20 YEARS to clear.


2. Tourist Visa. This one is pretty much self explanatory. IF you can get a tourist visa, you can come here for up to 6 months but CANNOT work. If you work during this time, you are committing a crime. For most immigrants in the US (of any nationality) this type of permit is useless.

The only way to use this to their advantage is if they get married to an American while visiting, they can stay legally. Getting their work permits will of course take a long time anyway.

Keep in mind that most people who apply for tourist visas are denied.

This is how my mom and I were able to come here. She had a permanent visa (she was able to get this because my grandfather was a big diplomat representing Mexico in Houston), and got married here in the US. We weren't looking to come here. My stepdad is American, and visited us in Mexico where he proposed to my mom, which is why we moved.


3. Company sponsorships - If an american company hires you and wants you badly enough, they can sponsor you and allow you to come to the US to work for them.

If you decide to stop working for that company or you are fired, you can no longer work here legally, unless another company decides to sponsor you. You can only work for that company, or must return to your home country.


4. Work visas - This is where the immigration system fails COMPLETELY. Work visas allow immigrants to come to the US to work for a certain amount of time (say 6 months). The only way to receive a work visa is to be recruited by a sort of "legal coyote" working for the US government. this recruiter will go to a specific place, recruit workers, and issue them work visas. That work visa is only good for the person your were assigned to work with. If they treat you like crap and you decide to quit, you are automatically in the US illegally and can be sent to prison and eventually deported.

This is what most migrant workers do when they come to pick peaches etc.

One CANNOT go to an embassy and apply for a work visa, you can only be recruited. If you don't know where the recruiter will be, you will never even get the chance to get that work visa.

What makes things worse is the number of work visas that the US hands out. The number is something like 150,000 temporary work visas a year. Is this enough for migrant workers? Not in the least bit.

What's worse, the patrons (people you work for) for the most part only send recruiters for people they've ALREADY worked with. How did the immigrants work for them before? ILLEGALLY. Meaning that if you never worked in the US ILLEGALLY, your chances of working here under the temporary visas are almost non existent.

And what's even worse than that? There is NO ONE in the US government who oversees any of this. Meaning that the patrons can treat their workers like crap, pay them even less than they had originally stated, even beat the workers (and in some cases even kill them), and NO ONE even notices.

Of course the migrant workers can forget about any kind of health coverage. Just recently, 8 migrant workers died at a farm after getting sick. When something like this happens, everyone moves on and their families aren't even notified. They stay oblivious to the fact that their mom, dad, son, or daughter has died.



5. Religious leaders - I didn't research this too much, but if you're some kind of religious leader (priest, rabbi, etc.) you can get a special type of permit to work in the US.

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Mexicano Al Grito De Guerra

You guys have made some pretty interesting points that I pretty much agree on nearly all of them. What Diego has mentioned is happening here in DC, Maryland and Virginia. It's become especially awful in one area, Prince William County, where the Board of Supervisors, Corey Stewart, began and led a crusade for Harsh Immigration crackdowns in his county. The crusade led to The County entering the 287(g) program, which grants local cops the power to run a check on a person's citizenship immediately. This led to many cases of bullshit arrests were made, such as loitering and such, and run the check. Since July 2007 (The month the county entered the program), over 2,000 people have been sent to the feds with the suspicion of being an illegal. This being done in a time when the county was going through some major growth, population and economically-wise.

Pretty ugly fucking spot.

What Curiosity mentioned is absolutely right on the money with his 1st point. This may sound off-putting to some, but essentially this country has been run by White, Older, Rich men for years now. They had absolute power and control and would not want to change, and have their vision of what America is to be. Now with the population boom of minorities in this country, their comfort zone is getting smaller and smaller. They're getting scared, leading to the points of paranoia, and fighting back, hence the racism, like Curi pointed.

And If I may chime in on the race factor myself, It's doubly FUCKING IRRITATING to not only see people in this area label many every hispanics as "Immigrants" but also as "Mexican" Why? I'm not Mexican. I, myself actually belong to the 2nd largest minority group in Washington, DC, (El Salvadorans). Add to the fact that besides the El Salvadorans, there's a decent Honduran contingent here as well. Whether it be local people on the news or hearing stories from friends of mine, it's all just very irritating to hear.

Much of what Diego said is unfortunately true, with similar shit about the Minutemen hunting down immigrants, here in my area.

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"When someone asks if you're a god, you say YES!"

I hadn't mentioned that since my post was aimed at the immigration thing, but I do agree with your point. I hate the fact of anyone being called Mexican when it' not true. However, this extends even to people who call themselves Mexican.

For example, I had a classmate who always loved calling me wetback, beaner, etc. I brushed it off because he was joking around and I didn't want to make a big deal. He was football player with a low IQ (isn't that surprising )

Anyway, one day I hear him say "I'm actually Mexican." Really? Was he born in Mexico? No. Hell, only his great grandmother was Mexican. That's when I really got pissed. If you're not BORN IN MEXICO, you're NOT Mexican. Period.

As for the other side, I wouldn't want to be called an Argentine for example, so why do we have to call ALL hispanics and latinos Mexican?

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Mexicano Al Grito De Guerra

I have no problem with hispanic folks, chinese folks, black folks, or anyone. Do I have a problem when you enter my country illegally? Yes. I don't care where you're from. My grandparents immigrated to this country LEGALLY decades ago. They were french-canadian. They took the tests, learned the language, etc., and became legal citizens.

I admit, it does bother me to an extent that I have had to learn rudimentary spanish just so that I can talk to the cooks who are cooking the food in the restaurant that I work at. If I moved to France, would the French then learn English just to talk to me? No, they'd consider the idea ridiculous. I sure as hell wouldn't be getting a job there if I didn't, at the very least, speak the language.

I remember when people were talking about illegal immigrants being able to get driver's licences. I don't know if that ever happened or not, but boy, that sure as hell pissed me off at the time. Someone who broke the law by coming here illegally gets a driver's licence. You're kidding right? I'm not on Candid Camera, am I?

I would get laughed out of the country if I went over to Mexico (or any other country) and decided to live there without becoming a legal naturalized citizen, then demanded driver's licences, health care, etc., everything (not just a few things) to be printed bilingually, and told them they were racists if they didn't do it.

The work force would not "crumble" without illegal immigrants. There are millions of unemployed people in this country right now, and if a few million jobs all of a sudden became available due to a mass deportiation of illegal immigrants (read: not just Mexicans .. anyone here illegally), then there would be a decent amount of people standing in line to fill them.

I agree that the majority of America is racist to a degree. I get called "white boy" in spanish every day at work, but I never call them any names. A white person cannot wear a white power T-shirt anywhere, for fear they will be called racist and stoned to death on the spot. However, it's okay for a T-shirt saying black pride, hmong pride, etc., because that's not racism, that's just pride. Give me a break.

Why can't white comedians tell "crazy black people" jokes? Because someone'd shoot them. Of course, it's acceptable for black and Mexican folks to make "crazy white people jokes," and everyone just eats that up.

Point blank: break the law, I have a problem. Come here legally, I have no problem.

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Who Washes The Washmen's Infinite Secrets of Legendary Crossover Knight Wars?
"If you immediately know the candlelight is fire, the meal was cooked a long time ago."

Well you can't deny he has Mexican ancestry (even if it is a tiny bit...) but I would agree with you in saying he's not really Mexican.



1. You should do something about them folks at work, at least report them for harassment so they'll shut up.
2. Yes. Unfortunately the way we grow up today, "white pride/power" isn't accepted. However, once you simply divulge into whatever heritage you have, it's alright.
3. I've always wondered about that. Of course, it's an entirely separate discussion, which also goes along with saying the "N" word.

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Someone'd shoot them? Gotta say that's a little offensive. I understand the point you tried to make, but just because we'd be upset doesn't mean we'd shoot them, kill them, cut them, shank them, etc.

And I've heard plenty of white people and comedian make fun of blacks and latinos, and they were perfectly well received.

And I understand that breaking the law bothers you, but as the immigration law stands right NOW, that'll all they can do. We need to CHANGE the immigration laws so that a person who wants to come here, work, and become an American citizen, can ACTUALLY DO JUST THAT, instead of trying to find loopholes in the corrupt system.

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Mexicano Al Grito De Guerra

Because the phrase "white power" is synonymous with "white supremacy". Wearing a t shirt that says white power brings rather negative (rather obviously negative I should say) connotations.



A shirt that says "black pride" does not have the same racist connotations that "white power" has. For a very long time blacks were made to feel inferior to whites simply because they were not white. So to make a statement about being proud to be black would be to say being black isn't something to feel shame or embarrassment for. To compare this to "white power" is ridiculous.



Who says they can't? It really all depends on where you're coming from. Russel Peters is a Canadian/Indian comedian who regularly tells jokes about other ethnic groups. However he never gets heat for it because he has grown up with the people he pokes fun at and he's never trying to be mean spirited. When a white comedian tells a joke about someone of another group I will sometimes wonder where they're coming from.



Mexicans and African Americans are two groups that have gone through a lot of persecution over the past couple hundred years. When you take that into consideration I think they could be forgiven for making the odd "cracker" joke every now and then.

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"Heard them Walthers like to jump some" "As will you, with one in your elbow."

Have you ever heard of french-canadians being deported ?

I didn't think so, it is a racial problem.

If it was that easy, then this discussion wouldn't exist, up until some while ago my aunt was an illegal in Florida, she moved there quickly because she was afraid of what Hugo Chavez might come up with next here in Venezuela, she feared that her job simply wouldn't be able to let her keep up with the bills, so she went to the US and simply tried to make a better life for herself, in the end, after more than 10 years of bureaucratic battles just to work, she had the blessed luck of meeting a cuban-american, whom she fell in love with and married, it was only then that almost inmediately she was granted citizenship, and not after ten years of pushing papers.



I will have to agree with Sun on this one, that is a lame excuse that BLACK people keep exploiting today, and nobody i've ever heard using such an excuse has been a victim of any sort of persecution that was grounded on his ethnicity, the only thing that black people are doing when they bring that up is perpetuating an issue that does not apply to their current generation.

And to my knowledge, an african-american is an individual either born in AFRICA or the child of AFRICAN parents, be it as AFRICANS those who come from the continent of AFRICA and it's diverse number of nations contained in it.

Therefore, if Cristopher Johnson had obtained american citizenship, then he would be an african-american

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I think I'm with t3ii on pretty much everything.

Though I do feel minorities SOMETIMES use their history etc. as an excuse for racism against whites, jokes are a completely different thing. Some white guys make funny jokes about blacks, and some make jokes that suck. Same goes to blacks, asians, latinos, etc.

I take Afriecan-American like I take Mexican-American. A Person who's heritage originates from somewhere else by a few generations.

To me, a Mexican-American is someone whose grandparent(s) are FROM Mexico. Same thing with African-Americans, etc. Go back a few more generations, and the heritage has dwindled down enough to drop the prefix.

And to Sun's point about trying to get other countries to speak English....Most of the world IS bilingual. go to Mexico City and try to communicate in English. They may not be completely fluent, but I can almost guarantee that you'll have no problem speaking with us in English. Go to France, same thing. Most of the world teaches other languages in school. Even poor people in Mexico, Africa, etc. often speak more than one language.

So sorry that we expect Americans to be as intelligent and educated as the rest of the world
I'll make sure to never make that mistake again.

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Mexicano Al Grito De Guerra

Hey, i have two George Lopez DVD's at home, and i laugh at whatever the guy is taking pot shots at, certainly joking about ethnicity or stereotypes can't be counted as racist commentary.



Works good with many mexican-americans, but not them same (proportionally) with african-americans, the "african" part is a mistake.

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That's the thing. African Americans should be the same thing as M-A, but most of them aren't connected to Africa for ages. Like I said, If their grandparents/parents are from Africa sure, otherwise they're just Americans who happen to be black.

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Mexicano Al Grito De Guerra