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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:53 am 
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Who where they? I only know that The Comedian and Silk Spectre were not, not so sure about Nite Owl either... can someone give me some food for thought?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:28 pm 
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Captain Metropolis, Hooded Justice, and The Silhouette were the homosexual members of the group.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:19 pm 
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thank you

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:33 pm 
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Watchmaker wrote:
Captain Metropolis, Hooded Justice, and The Silhouette were the homosexual members of the group.

I knew about Hooded Justice, but where does it say those other two were as well?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:46 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
I knew about Hooded Justice, but where does it say those other two were as well?

I thought it was implied that Captain Metropolis was going out with Hooded Justice? Also, I think in the Under the Hood excerpts, Hollis refers to The Silhouette's sexuality (and how that was a factor to her being kicked out of the group).

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:29 pm 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
Watchmaker wrote:
Captain Metropolis, Hooded Justice, and The Silhouette were the homosexual members of the group.

I knew about Hooded Justice, but where does it say those other two were as well?

Check the Sally Jupiter interview right at the last page of the Chapter IX supplement. Sally explicitly states that "the papers got hold of... her being a gay woman," in reference to the Silhouette.

Later, when asked who else was gay, Sally doesn't name anyone, but says "it was a couple of the guys and they're both dead now. One died recently, I'm not saying who it was." We know Hooded Justice was one of them, so that leaves one more. Nite Owl and Mothman are ruled out because they are both still alive at the graphic novel's start. The Comedian is out for obvious reasons.

That leaves Dollar Bill and Cpt. Metropolis. But Metropolis was killed in '74 (Chapter I, pg. 19, panel 4) and the Sally Jupiter interview took place only two years later (September 1976, check the lower left-hand corner of the interview).

Dollar Bill, on the other hand, died well before Hollis Mason wrote his book. Otherwise, his death couldn't have been mentioned in said book (page "8" of the Chapter II supplement). And Hollis mentions the book in Chapter IX, page 11, panel 8, when Metropolis is not only alive -- he's in the panel!

So, the second gay man is almost assuredly Cpt. Metropolis.

(I love having my book back. :)).

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:01 pm 
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Good job, C. Inc. Spot on logic, there, bro.

There's another quote somewhere, as well. I'll get back to you.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:56 pm 
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You have to read the meta texts after the comic episodes if you want to fill in the gaps. From IX:31... a letter from Larry Schexnayder to Sally:

"...Nelly called last night, upset over yet another tiff with H.J. Those two are getting worse. The more they row and act like an old married couple in public, the harder they are to cover for. I know you've provided a pretty steady alibi for H.J. up til now, and that publicity we got from that hasn't exactly hurt you either, but it can't last much longer. Nelly says he's always out when Nelly calls, out with boys, and apparently there's a lot of rough stuff going on. One of these punks only has to go to the cops with a convincing story and some convincing bruises to back it up and it would be the Silhouette fiasco all over again."

Clearly, H.J. is Hooded Justice and Nelly is Nelson Gardner/Captain Metropolis. Obviously, they had a homosexual relationship that was covered by Sally's supposed crush on H.J. Which was never real. But H.J. liked young boys and he liked rougher sex than Nelson and stepped out on him.

Which gives new meaning to the scene where H.J. stops Blake from raping Sally. Blake was only 16 at the time and he realized that H.J. was getting a sexual thrill from it. "This is what you like, huh? This is what gets you hot..."

Now look at that next panel... II:7:7... Behold the brilliance of Dave Gibbons. No word balloons. No thought ballons. No captions. And a character whose face is almost completely obscured by a full face mask... and yet there is no doubt what's in his mind. He stops dead. Blake has him nailed. Blake has him in psychological checkmate and you can see it in his eyes.

Blake leaves and we see H.J. and Sally alone. Does he comfort her? Embrace her? No. He tells her to quit crying and to cover herself. No intimacy. No love. We see clearly here that their public relationship is not real.

Watchmen is filled with this degree of subtlety. If you didn't notice this... read it again. I discover something new every time I read it.

Hooded Justice is a very important character and there is a blatant statement about masked vigilantes in the fact that he was the first. If we look to American history, masked vigilantes were real. One group was known as the KKK. A white outfit would have been too obvious, but look at Hooded Justice... the style of his hood... a condensed version of a KKK hood... the noose to represent his lynch mob mentality... his pro-nazi racist leanings... the man rarely speaks and we're never sure of his identity... but we sure as hell know him. Just like young Eddie Blake, we have his number.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:29 pm 
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"Meta-text"

That is a phrase I've found confusing since RLS first used it. Let me research that, and I'll get back to you.


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 Post subject: Look and look again
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:08 pm 
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"Meta-text" is easy. It means text that refers to the text... the segments between chapters in Watchmen are about the story so they are meta-texts.

"Research" is boggling. If you haven't searched, how can you research? And if you have, why would you?


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 Post subject: Re: Look and look again
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:24 pm 
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Vynson wrote:
"Meta-text" is easy. It means text that refers to the text... the segments between chapters in Watchmen are about the story so they are meta-texts.

"Research" is boggling. If you haven't searched, how can you research? And if you have, why would you?


You drunken bastard.

"Research".

Semantics aside, I've not achieved the level of education that you have. Therefore, I require "research", and not just "search".

Incidentally, fuck you, Clint, you deserted bastard.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:44 am 
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Thanks for the input regarding HJ.

Blake's comment to HJ and his immediate reaction is a great moment in the book.





Snyder's got his work cut out!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:41 am 
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Soupdragon wrote:
Blake's comment to HJ and his immediate reaction is a great moment in the book.

Snyder's got his work cut out!

Too bad HJ will likely not be the one to pull Blake off of Sally... back to the old Tse draft issues again...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:13 am 
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Fuck Tse.


This is the book forum. :)

:P I mentioned Snyder. Soz!

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 Post subject: Hooded injustice
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:16 am 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
Too bad HJ will likely not be the one to pull Blake off of Sally... back to the old Tse draft issues again...

This is my concern with Watchmen being made into a movie. It takes YEARS to get this book. And not getting a moment like that one (and Tse clearly did not get this moment and many others... and in my opinion did not understand the work he was adapting beneath the surface level), can diminish the film. Throw away too many of those moments and you ruin it. Changing out H.J. for Hollis in that scene seems expedient if you don't realize what's going on beneath the surface.

The fact is that, in order to have a chance at a good Watchmen movie, we need a screenwriter, director, and editor who have all been fans of the comic for YEARS and understand it thoroughly.

CATCH-22... Anyone qualified to make it wouldn't.

So if Zack is the rarity... the thermodynamic miracle that can make gold... I hope he's planning on spending as much time in the editing room as he spent rewriting because that will be a big part. The scene transitions are nothing to leave to someone who dashed through the book once or twice and think they know what they're doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Hooded injustice
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:54 am 
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Vynson wrote:
This is my concern with Watchmen being made into a movie. It takes YEARS to get this book. And not getting a moment like that one (and Tse clearly did not get this moment and many others... and in my opinion did not understand the work he was adapting beneath the surface level), can diminish the film. Throw away too many of those moments and you ruin it. Changing out H.J. for Hollis in that scene seems expedient if you don't realize what's going on beneath the surface.

OK. I know I'm setting myself up for attack again, but I honestly think substituting Hollis for HJ in that scene will not cause the film to fall apart. Yes, for purists its not faithful to Moore's text and undermines some of the multi-level "humanizing" of that world's superheroes, but in an adaptation things need to be cut.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:35 pm 
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I got most of this book in the first reading. I don't think it takes years to understand. If you are reading it like a comic yeah, it might. If you read it like a novel then it shouldn't take more than on reading.

I have a question that is really going to get a lot of people's goats... I'm guessing he is bi or abstinent. Or...maybe I'm wrong...What if the Veidt character is not attracted to women or men...is he something worse than?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:40 pm 
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-snort- of course it's Captain Metropolis, I could have told you that even if it wasn't implied. With a name like Captain Metropolis o.O


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:43 pm 
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Captain Metropolis? More like Captain Metrosexual! You know what I'm saying? Ha Ha!

Yeah, i don't know what thats supposed to mean either.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:42 pm 
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These last three posts I don't get at all. Huh.

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