WatchmenComicMovie.com Forum

I came across a fan review for the Ultimate Cut a few months ago on YouTube, and the reviewer made an interesting point (#1) that hadn't occurred to me. I also watched a few scenes recently, and it got me thinking. Here are five reasons why inserting TBF segments throughout the film just does not work (at least, not nearly as well as the book).


1. Live-action vs. animation
In the book, you go back and forth between a comic book and another comic book. Sure, TBF is drawn in a distinctive style, but you're still reading a comic book. So they blend together quite well.
In the UC, you cut back and forth between live-action and animation. They are like two completely different worlds. The effect is not the same. It's not like seeing two different styles of live-action. You're watching two fundamentally different things. If they had shot TBF as live-action, inserting the segments might have worked better.

2. Very little overlap
The book would often show TBF dialogue over "real world" scenes (or vice versa). This really helps "Watchmen" ultimately feel like one thing. The UC only does this briefly a couple times (TBF audio over real world footage or vice versa). The UC feels like a central story with another story weirdly shoe-horned into it.

3. Length of the TBF Segments
In the book, the TBF segments vary in length. Sometimes, we are right in the middle of a "real world" scene, and then we see a couple TBF dialogue boxes, and that's it. Other times, we'll come to a couple pages straight of nothing but TBF scenes and dialogue.
In the UC, I think Snyder felt (and he was probably right) like he couldn't cut away for just a few seconds and then cut back, In order to justify cutting to a TBF scene, it needed to be at least a few minutes long. This is one reason the TBF segments feel like commercial breaks.

4. Lack of Ironic Connections
In the book, the TBF scenes and the real world scenes are often similar in ironic ways. Sometimes it almost seems like Bernie is talking about TBF, and sometimes it feels like TBF is commenting on the real world story happening directly alongside it. TBF's purpose in the story is not really clear until the very end, but it is certainly implied very early on that there is a connection. It just takes the entire book to figure out exactly what that connection is (Adrian).
The UC only does this once or twice. The book does it constantly.

5. Multiple Images vs. One
When you're reading a graphic novel, you can see multiple images at the same time. This makes blending TBF into the story much easier. It's right there in front of you: Real world scenes right next to TBF scenes.
In a movie, you can only see one image at one time. So you feel more like you're being jerked around. This is no fault of Snyder. It's just that the idea of inserting TBF segments throughout the film works very well in a graphic novel, but is inherently uncinematic.

The UC is the highest quality fanboy porn ever. It's fun to watch if you're a fan; I really enjoy it on that level. But it just fundamentally doesn't work by itself.

(On the other hand, surprisingly, I think the TBF 25-min short does stand alone pretty well as an interesting little parable about a man who, in his righteous quest to save his family, becomes the very thing he's trying to destroy)

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"Computer unnecessary."

Alan Moore was trying to prove with Watchmen that you can do a lot more with comics than you can with film or novels.

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Say, Doc, did I ever tell you I'm the only metal that's liquid at room temperature?

^ It's not that graphic novels can do more the films. It's just that there are some things graphic novels can do that films just can't.

There are also things films can do that graphic novels can't.

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"Computer unnecessary."

Maybe you are right, but if I had to choose one version of the movie to buy, I would choose the Ultimate, because it has everything (that's actually what I did =P)

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Never give you up
Never gonna let you down

English not very good. Forgive me.

http://www.ghondar.blogspot.com
Because people on the internet think that I'm somewhat funny.

yeah i couldn't hold on that long, and i quadruple dipped... (UK TC DVD, UK TC BD, US Owlship DC BD, and US UC BD) i don't regret it though

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We're all actors, Laurie. I'm just an actor who read the script.

to be honest, i thought it was way better that the BF segments were animated, since watchmen is supposed to be real life, and BF a comic book within that universe, it makes plenty more sense to have it animated. they definitely should have had more voice-overs and flipping back and forth between the real world and the comic book.

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I disagree. I watched it with someone who barely knew anything about Watchmen and he loved it. Completely got it too. It's just that it makes you think and take in even more information than the movie by itself does.

Not that I'm implying that you're not a smart person. I greatly enjoy your posts and reviews; I just disagree with you on this particular matter.


I actually thought that it was really boring by itself, but I loved the UC. The Black Freighter just feels significant and like it actually has a point when inserted into the context of the film.

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"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part.

"There's a cello in your house now."

^ I'd probably disagree with your friends on a lot of movies. The five reasons listed are simply my reasons. By the way, what do you think of my reasons?

Another reason I could have added is how the Ultimate Cut completely kills the pacing of the movie. Even in the DC, pacing is a small flaw. The story constantly comes to a grinding hault...starts up again a little...and then grinds to a hault again. The story rarley feels like it's moving along, and this weakens the tension of inevitable nuclear war. I call this a small flaw because the movie is very character-centered. In most movies, the characters are there primarily to move the plot along. In Watchmen, it's reversed. The plot exists to allow us to learn about the characters. So the fact that the story doesn't move along fast enough is not a huge problem.

But the UC takes any momentum the DC had and simply KILLS it. Completely and utterly kills it. The tension is just gone.



No way. If I could only own one version, there's no doubt I'd choose the DC. Simply because it's by far the best version of the movie. (The DC is Snyder's movie; the UC is just "an experiment")

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"Computer unnecessary."

and that is why alan moore wrote it as a 12-part graphic novel. characterization is KEY in watchmen, and even though a 3.5 hr movie doesn't 100% get it, it's still as close as we can possibly get. that is, until people will actually go to the theaters to see long flicks and not fall asleep.

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Same.
I think the UC's faults are no worse than the TC's. DC - awkward cop-shooting-Rorschach bit + UC's Bernie scenes = the true ultimate cut.

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Wait by awkward Cop shooting rorschach bit do you mean the Moloch escape scene?

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@RealSlimCAvery

Who thinks a hybrid of the DC and UC wherein only the Bernie scenes are added to this new cut to the DC and Freighter is left out would be the best version?

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Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music - George Carlin

I have not seen the UC yet... and do hate myself for that, but I have the TBF dvd and the DC and I don't think they would mesh well, but I agree that there should be more of the Bernies in the DC

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@RealSlimCAvery

As I'm in 2 of the UC Bernies scenes and was standing off to the side for the rest, I'd go for this!

Seriously though I prefer the UC as my favorite version of WATCHMEN. I'll admit that sometimes when reading the novel, I'll skip over the Black Freighter stuff as I have to be in the mood for it. Same goes for the movie. Sometimes I watch it straight through, other times I jump to favorite scenes, and other times I watch all the live action and just skip the Freighter. There's such a wealth of material that I'm glad as much of it is in the movie as there is. And it's easier to skip over these things when I'm not in the mood to see them as opposed to lamenting their absence had the movie not been made as well as it was.

I haven't see the UC either (I know, don't kill me). It's something you really need to have time for, and I just haven't had 4 hours to kill. I may give in and just watch it an hour at a time, but I feel I'm not really seeing it as a whole and doing it justice if I do that. It's the same reason my Bernie's interview hasn't been posted yet.

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Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music - George Carlin

i would rather read those interviews before your UC review.

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Nah, I mean at the beginning, in the Comedian's apartment, post-defenestration. I should've put shooting-at-Rorschach, but it's still a head-scratcher as to how anyone could miss from that range.

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Okay. I just emailed Curi to see if he can transcribe the interview audio. If he can't, I'm sure AYB or someone else on the forum would be happy to help.

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Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music - George Carlin

Affirmative.

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I dunno. I don't really like most of the Bernie scenes. They're just kind of awkwardly directed. Examples: The way Hollis turns to Bernie and says "I appreciate it," and the guy shouting "Doctor Manhattan's gone!" I also think the final Bernie scene kind of ruins the impact of "I triggered it 35 minutes ago." After Veidt says that line, you just have to blow up New York right away (as it is in the book).

I really like the idea of having Bernie scenes throughout the film, but I think they were poorly done.

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"Computer unnecessary."