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Talk about the Watchmen comic book mini-series and film
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:58 pm 
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ROR-SHACK wrote:
Maybe I need to give up trying to generalize reactions. Fans were divided and general moviegoers were divided. End of story.

So many people I expected would hate it ended up liking it, and vice versa. I still cannot believe my dad didn't hate it. He has a hard time staying awake for just about any movie, he hates it when movies are longer than 2 hours, and doesn't like complicated plots. He actually liked it.

It's really hard to predict if someone is going to like this movie.


I believe this is what they call a "controversial" movie.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:10 pm 
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I think how much you enjoyed the film does not at all relate to how long you've been a fan of, or how many times you have read, the comics.

Some die hard fans are purists. If it's not exactly what is on the page, then they feel the movie got it wrong. Period.

Some fans understand movies and cinema and can appreciate Watchmen the movie as a stand-alone without trying to do a heavy comparison of which is "better."

I look at the movie as just that - a movie adaptation. I look at the graphic novel as a graphic novel.

I really liked the movie. I think it got lots of things "right" but I understand the "whys" of the deviations. I like Snyder as a filmmaker and I understand and agree with many of his choices.

So, I would say a Watchmen fan's enjoyment of the film really depends on what that fan thinks about Snyder as a filmmaker.

My guess is if you find a Watchmen fan who loved 300, Dawn of the Dead and Sucker Punch, you'll find a Watchmen fan who loved the Watchmen movie.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:10 pm 
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^i agree

also my dad liked the movie alot and he usually is the type of guy who loves Michael bay type movies


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am 
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DoomsdayClock wrote:
I look at the movie as just that - a movie adaptation. I look at the graphic novel as a graphic novel.

I really liked the movie. I think it got lots of things "right" but I understand the "whys" of the deviations. I like Snyder as a filmmaker and I understand and agree with many of his choices.


totally agree,
the movie was never going to be a panel for panel adaptation, that would be impossible, and i think snyder made a lot of good choices about which bits he kept in and which bits he lost or changed, things like Sally's attempted rape and Hollis' murder are things other film makers might have left out, DM's time on mars would have probably been made shorter to pander to an ADD audience, but snyder recognised their power, and the fact it's scenes like that that make watchmen what it is, (rather than superficial stuff like the Squid, when the SQuID works equally well, and is much more concise), and kept them in

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:07 pm 
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ROR-SHACK wrote:

Watchmen hit theaters over two years ago. I have been finding it difficult narrow down which groups generally liked the film and which groups generally didn't.


I'd suggest it was pretty much disliked by most people regardless of their involvement with the GN, as you'll see...

ROR-SHACK wrote:
Among fans, critics, and average moviegoers, I have come across some who loved it and some who hated it. Watchmen has appeared on many "best" and "worst" superhero movies of the decade lists.


I'll be honest - I can't find many 'Best Superhero Films' lists that include Watchmen. If we're sourcing critical and fan opinion, you really can't do much better than this:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=39833

That's not 'Top Ten of the Decade' either - that's 'Of All Time'...

Then we have Metacritic's chart which includes the Top and Worst Ten of all time, based on aggregated critical scores:

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best- ... ook-movies

'Watchmen' doesn't feature in either, which reinforces the general feeling of 'Meh', that - in my experience - surrounds this film.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:25 pm 
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Satan's Slut wrote:
ROR-SHACK wrote:

Watchmen hit theaters over two years ago. I have been finding it difficult narrow down which groups generally liked the film and which groups generally didn't.


I'd suggest it was pretty much disliked by most people regardless of their involvement with the GN, as you'll see...

ROR-SHACK wrote:
Among fans, critics, and average moviegoers, I have come across some who loved it and some who hated it. Watchmen has appeared on many "best" and "worst" superhero movies of the decade lists.


I'll be honest - I can't find many 'Best Superhero Films' lists that include Watchmen. If we're sourcing critical and fan opinion, you really can't do much better than this:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=39833

That's not 'Top Ten of the Decade' either - that's 'Of All Time'...

Then we have Metacritic's chart which includes the Top and Worst Ten of all time, based on aggregated critical scores:

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best- ... ook-movies

'Watchmen' doesn't feature in either, which reinforces the general feeling of 'Meh', that - in my experience - surrounds this film.

Goddamn it, Satan's Slut.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:32 pm 
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I can't really remember what specifically prompted me to read Watchmen as I was never a big comic book reader, but, ironically, it may very well have been this movie. I found out about the movie around the time I found out about Watchmen itself. People were talking about Watchmen being unfilmable, while saying it was the greatest graphic novel of all time. Finally, after flipping through it every once and awhile at the bookstore (ruining several twists in the process), I broke down and bought the graphic novel. After reading it, I then started spending time on the Watchmen board at IMDb, along with several other WCM members, eventually finding myself joining this site. It was visiting this site, when it was at its busiest, that I developed a big admiration for Watchmen (the graphic novel).

To date I have only seen the Watchmen movie once, and that was in the theatre. I'm probably not going to check out any of the longer versions, mostly because this was a movie I was never really big on in the first place, and all I'd be getting is more stuff to not like. I think I'm of two minds regarding Watchmen as a comic book series, and as a movie. One, I think this could have been a better movie. I know Curi will chime in and say "this was really the best movie we were going to get", but that doesn't cut it for me. So on one hand I think another director, with another cast, could have made a more enjoyable movie for me. On the other hand, there's a part of me that thinks Watchmen wasn't meant to be adapted to film. In my opinion it's not the story or characters that make Watchmen great, it's how the story is told. Once you change the medium the story is told in, you change much of its appeal. You can say that the movie should be enjoyed as a work in its own right, but that's impossible for me to do.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:25 am 
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Satan's Slut wrote:
ROR-SHACK wrote:

Watchmen hit theaters over two years ago. I have been finding it difficult narrow down which groups generally liked the film and which groups generally didn't.


I'd suggest it was pretty much disliked by most people regardless of their involvement with the GN, as you'll see...

ROR-SHACK wrote:
Among fans, critics, and average moviegoers, I have come across some who loved it and some who hated it. Watchmen has appeared on many "best" and "worst" superhero movies of the decade lists.


I'll be honest - I can't find many 'Best Superhero Films' lists that include Watchmen. If we're sourcing critical and fan opinion, you really can't do much better than this:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=39833

That's not 'Top Ten of the Decade' either - that's 'Of All Time'...

Then we have Metacritic's chart which includes the Top and Worst Ten of all time, based on aggregated critical scores:

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best- ... ook-movies

'Watchmen' doesn't feature in either, which reinforces the general feeling of 'Meh', that - in my experience - surrounds this film.

I think listing the metecritic thing as proof for "meh" is misplaced, if anything it just as easily backs up the "some loved it, some hated it" theory.
If you look here http://www.metacritic.com/movie/watchmen you can see it got 19 positive reviews out of 39, 5 of which were 100%, and 3 right at the bottom with 20%,

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:33 am 
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AvatarIII wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
ROR-SHACK wrote:

Watchmen hit theaters over two years ago. I have been finding it difficult narrow down which groups generally liked the film and which groups generally didn't.


I'd suggest it was pretty much disliked by most people regardless of their involvement with the GN, as you'll see...

ROR-SHACK wrote:
Among fans, critics, and average moviegoers, I have come across some who loved it and some who hated it. Watchmen has appeared on many "best" and "worst" superhero movies of the decade lists.


I'll be honest - I can't find many 'Best Superhero Films' lists that include Watchmen. If we're sourcing critical and fan opinion, you really can't do much better than this:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=39833

That's not 'Top Ten of the Decade' either - that's 'Of All Time'...

Then we have Metacritic's chart which includes the Top and Worst Ten of all time, based on aggregated critical scores:

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best- ... ook-movies

'Watchmen' doesn't feature in either, which reinforces the general feeling of 'Meh', that - in my experience - surrounds this film.

I think listing the metecritic thing as proof for "meh" is misplaced, if anything it just as easily backs up the "some loved it, some hated it" theory.
If you look here http://www.metacritic.com/movie/watchmen you can see it got 19 positive reviews out of 39, 5 of which were 100%, and 3 right at the bottom with 20%,


My comment was simply based on the Best/Worst list results; that fact that it appears on neither list - it's not one of the best, and not one of the worst - reinforces the general indifference that seems to surround this film, in my experience.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:06 am 
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Satan's Slut wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
ROR-SHACK wrote:

Watchmen hit theaters over two years ago. I have been finding it difficult narrow down which groups generally liked the film and which groups generally didn't.


I'd suggest it was pretty much disliked by most people regardless of their involvement with the GN, as you'll see...

ROR-SHACK wrote:
Among fans, critics, and average moviegoers, I have come across some who loved it and some who hated it. Watchmen has appeared on many "best" and "worst" superhero movies of the decade lists.


I'll be honest - I can't find many 'Best Superhero Films' lists that include Watchmen. If we're sourcing critical and fan opinion, you really can't do much better than this:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=39833

That's not 'Top Ten of the Decade' either - that's 'Of All Time'...

Then we have Metacritic's chart which includes the Top and Worst Ten of all time, based on aggregated critical scores:

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best- ... ook-movies

'Watchmen' doesn't feature in either, which reinforces the general feeling of 'Meh', that - in my experience - surrounds this film.

I think listing the metecritic thing as proof for "meh" is misplaced, if anything it just as easily backs up the "some loved it, some hated it" theory.
If you look here http://www.metacritic.com/movie/watchmen you can see it got 19 positive reviews out of 39, 5 of which were 100%, and 3 right at the bottom with 20%,


My comment was simply based on the Best/Worst list results; that fact that it appears on neither list - it's not one of the best, and not one of the worst - reinforces the general indifference that seems to surround this film, in my experience.


I suppose Sin City must be a "meh" film too since it is on neither list.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Smutty wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
ROR-SHACK wrote:

Watchmen hit theaters over two years ago. I have been finding it difficult narrow down which groups generally liked the film and which groups generally didn't.


I'd suggest it was pretty much disliked by most people regardless of their involvement with the GN, as you'll see...

ROR-SHACK wrote:
Among fans, critics, and average moviegoers, I have come across some who loved it and some who hated it. Watchmen has appeared on many "best" and "worst" superhero movies of the decade lists.


I'll be honest - I can't find many 'Best Superhero Films' lists that include Watchmen. If we're sourcing critical and fan opinion, you really can't do much better than this:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=39833

That's not 'Top Ten of the Decade' either - that's 'Of All Time'...

Then we have Metacritic's chart which includes the Top and Worst Ten of all time, based on aggregated critical scores:

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best- ... ook-movies

'Watchmen' doesn't feature in either, which reinforces the general feeling of 'Meh', that - in my experience - surrounds this film.

I think listing the metecritic thing as proof for "meh" is misplaced, if anything it just as easily backs up the "some loved it, some hated it" theory.
If you look here http://www.metacritic.com/movie/watchmen you can see it got 19 positive reviews out of 39, 5 of which were 100%, and 3 right at the bottom with 20%,


My comment was simply based on the Best/Worst list results; that fact that it appears on neither list - it's not one of the best, and not one of the worst - reinforces the general indifference that seems to surround this film, in my experience.


I suppose Sin City must be a "meh" film too since it is on neither list.


You can suppose what you like; I didn't compile either list, and have no great love for 'Sin City' either, but I do not know why it - or other more popular films - was omitted.

I do know that 'Watchmen' scores in the low 50's (IIRC) on Metacritic, which also reinforces the whole feeling of 'Meh' that appears to surround it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:45 pm 
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You do realize that tons of people loving it and tons of people hating it doesn't equal "meh", right?

Also, those lists aren't exactly definitive. I'm sure you can find tons of other lists of the exact same type hanging around that reinforce the exact opposite of the opinion you stated.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:20 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
You do realize that tons of people loving it and tons of people hating it doesn't equal "meh", right?

Also, those lists aren't exactly definitive. I'm sure you can find tons of other lists of the exact same type hanging around that reinforce the exact opposite of the opinion you stated.


I chose Metacritic because it aggregates existing review scores as well but, as you point out, it's all irrelevant anyway since it's all opinion and none of these lists are definitive. In fact, that kind of makes the OP irrelevant too. In fact, that kind of makes most of this sub-forum irrelevant doesn't it, since we're discussing opinions?

Or, since we're discussing opinions, shall we just accept that a site like Metacritic which collates lots of opinions and aggregates numerical scores to give an overall score is a pretty fair barometer for general opinions, or reactions?

ETA: I didn't actually say that loads of people hating/liking it makes it 'Meh' - I said the fact that it doesn't appear on either list (it's not the best; it's not the worst), and it scores low 50's aggregated (it's not bad; it's not good) all reinforces the general air of 'Meh' that already surrounds the film, in my experience.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:28 pm 
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Satan's Slut wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
You do realize that tons of people loving it and tons of people hating it doesn't equal "meh", right?

Also, those lists aren't exactly definitive. I'm sure you can find tons of other lists of the exact same type hanging around that reinforce the exact opposite of the opinion you stated.


I chose Metacritic because it aggregates existing review scores as well but, as you point out, it's all irrelevant anyway since it's all opinion and none of these lists are definitive. In fact, that kind of makes the OP irrelevant too. In fact, that kind of makes most of this sub-forum irrelevant doesn't it, since we're discussing opinions?

Or, since we're discussing opinions, shall we just accept that a site like Metacritic which collates lots of opinions and aggregates numerical scores to give an overall score is a pretty fair barometer for general opinions, or reactions?

ETA: I didn't actually say that loads of people hating/liking it makes it 'Meh' - I said the fact that it doesn't appear on either list (it's not the best; it's not the worst), and it scores low 50's aggregated (it's not bad; it's not good) all reinforces the general air of 'Meh' that surrounds the film, in my experience.

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There's a distinct flaw with your theory here, though. You say it's "meh" because it doesn't appear on the best or worst list for either site. That's because its score on both is somewhere in the middle, but the reviews that contributed to that score are mostly either extremely positive or extremely negative.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:34 pm 
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"Meh" implies no intelligent engagement. Even if, as you suppose, everyone has that attitude towards the film, what meaning are we meant to derive from that? That people are stupid? Everyone knows that!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:36 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
You do realize that tons of people loving it and tons of people hating it doesn't equal "meh", right?

Also, those lists aren't exactly definitive. I'm sure you can find tons of other lists of the exact same type hanging around that reinforce the exact opposite of the opinion you stated.


I chose Metacritic because it aggregates existing review scores as well but, as you point out, it's all irrelevant anyway since it's all opinion and none of these lists are definitive. In fact, that kind of makes the OP irrelevant too. In fact, that kind of makes most of this sub-forum irrelevant doesn't it, since we're discussing opinions?

Or, since we're discussing opinions, shall we just accept that a site like Metacritic which collates lots of opinions and aggregates numerical scores to give an overall score is a pretty fair barometer for general opinions, or reactions?

ETA: I didn't actually say that loads of people hating/liking it makes it 'Meh' - I said the fact that it doesn't appear on either list (it's not the best; it's not the worst), and it scores low 50's aggregated (it's not bad; it's not good) all reinforces the general air of 'Meh' that surrounds the film, in my experience.

Image

There's a distinct flaw with your theory here, though. You say it's "meh" because it doesn't appear on the best or worst list for either site. That's because its score on both is somewhere in the middle, but the reviews that contributed to that score are mostly either extremely positive or extremely negative.


Maybe you missed my edit, or maybe your reading comprehension isn't so good; an aggregated score of 50-odd percent doesn't mean that every review was in exact polar opposite from each other. It depends on where the quality line is drawn, but an aggregate score of 50-odd percent suggests the bad and average reviews outweigh the positive ones. Which, once again reinforces the general feeling of 'Meh', that surrounds the film, in my experience.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:38 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
"Meh" implies no intelligent engagement. Even if, as you suppose, everyone has that attitude towards the film, what meaning are we meant to derive from that? That people are stupid? Everyone knows that!


No; that's what you think it implies. I - and most other people I know IRL and on forums - take 'Meh' to mean that noise you make when you shrug indifferently. You know, when you're totally indifferent to something; something which fails to make any kind of lasting impact?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:39 pm 
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The more you say "in my experience" the less experience I imagine you having. Just sayin'.

And indifference is impossible when one is actually engaged, emotionally or intellectually, in a story. So why should I give a fuck if people are incapable of that?

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


Last edited by AYBGerrardo on Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:40 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
The more you say "in my experience" the less experience I imagine you having. Just sayin'.


That's your problem - deal with it. It certainly has no bearing on this discussion whatsoever.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:47 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
The more you say "in my experience" the less experience I imagine you having. Just sayin'.

And indifference is impossible when one is actually engaged, emotionally or intellectually, in a story. So why should I give a fuck if people are incapable of that?


Have you considered that - based on general reviews and opinions of the film - the director may be the one incapable of telling the story in a way that engages the viewer emotionally or intellectually?

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