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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Satan's Slut wrote:
AYBGerrardo wrote:
The more you say "in my experience" the less experience I imagine you having. Just sayin'.

And indifference is impossible when one is actually engaged, emotionally or intellectually, in a story. So why should I give a fuck if people are incapable of that?


Have you considered that - based on general reviews and opinions of the film - the director may be the one incapable of telling the story in a way that engages the viewer emotionally or intellectually?

If that's the case, explain the people who did engage in the story.

In my experience, everyone adores the film. You are not in my experience, in my experience.

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:50 pm 
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In my experience, it's hard to argue with people who selectively choose sources to back up their own pre-existing opinions.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:51 pm 
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In my experience, the Holocaust didn't happen.
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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:55 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
AYBGerrardo wrote:
The more you say "in my experience" the less experience I imagine you having. Just sayin'.

And indifference is impossible when one is actually engaged, emotionally or intellectually, in a story. So why should I give a fuck if people are incapable of that?


Have you considered that - based on general reviews and opinions of the film - the director may be the one incapable of telling the story in a way that engages the viewer emotionally or intellectually?

If that's the case, explain the people who did engage in the story.

In my experience, everyone adores the film. You are not in my experience, in my experience.


It would seem your experiences are somewhat limited - I'm basing mine on aggregated scores on this film which are generally poor, or 'meh', and the fact that everyone I know (apart from me) thinks the film is shite at worst, or inconsequential at best.

I have always said there are the odd bits of the film that engaged me, and elements that briefly engaged others I know, but the impact was mostly lost due to a combination of shit marketing, and the confusing portrayal of many characters - especially for those not familiar with the GN.

I cannot say 100% whether or not the film would have engaged me at ALL or not if I hadn't read the GN, but I'm inclining more to 'not'.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:57 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
Nevermind, I give up.

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In my experience, it's hard to argue with people who selectively choose sources to back up their own pre-existing opinions.


I didn't know you'd started or tried anything - all you seem to do is post amusing (to you presumably) pictures in lieu of any substantial discussion or opinion.

Never mind - console yourself with an extra large, extra cute picture of... Oh. You did.

And if you call using Metacritic to back up a pre-existing opinion, then I really can't help you. It's not like Metacritic is something nobody has heard of, and I had to mine the Internet to find it to back up my opinion that the general public and critical response to Watchmen was pretty indifferent.

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Last edited by Satan's Slut on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:58 pm 
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In my experience, ophthalmiac.

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:00 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
In my experience, the Holocaust didn't happen.
This post brought to you by t3cii!!


Then - once again - I'd suggest you are very limited in your experiences.

I really didn't expect to have to spell this out but anyway - I use the phrase 'in my experience' to show that I am not generalising, or suggesting that my experience speaks for the entire viewing audience - but perhaps it's just me that doesn't believe my opinion is the only possible one.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:01 pm 
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Satan's Slut wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Nevermind, I give up.

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In my experience, it's hard to argue with people who selectively choose sources to back up their own pre-existing opinions.


I didn't know you'd started or tried anything - all you seem to do is post amusing (to you presumably) pictures in lieu of any substantial discussion or opinion.

Never mind - console yourself with an extra large, extra cute picture of... Oh. You did.

Image

You can insult me, but when you insult my pictures, you've gone too far.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Godziller66 wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
Godziller66 wrote:
Nevermind, I give up.

Image

In my experience, it's hard to argue with people who selectively choose sources to back up their own pre-existing opinions.


I didn't know you'd started or tried anything - all you seem to do is post amusing (to you presumably) pictures in lieu of any substantial discussion or opinion.

Never mind - console yourself with an extra large, extra cute picture of... Oh. You did.

Image

You can insult me, but when you insult my pictures, you've gone too far.

Image


OK - some are fairly amusing.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:05 pm 
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According to everyone I know in RL and on forums, they're all hilarious, in my experience.

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:07 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
According to everyone I know in RL and on forums, they're all hilarious, in my experience.


Really? That's great.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:10 pm 
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Toucha, I don't think your predeserving is sufficient cerastium for a full scale Slavic seuorita, least not as undoctrined, in my experience.

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Dr. Brooklyn wrote:
it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:13 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
Toucha, I don't think your predeserving is sufficient cerastium for a full scale Slavic seuorita, least not as undoctrined, in my experience.


Yeah.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:49 pm 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
In my experience, ophthalmiac.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:16 am 
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Satan's Slut wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
ROR-SHACK wrote:

Watchmen hit theaters over two years ago. I have been finding it difficult narrow down which groups generally liked the film and which groups generally didn't.


I'd suggest it was pretty much disliked by most people regardless of their involvement with the GN, as you'll see...

ROR-SHACK wrote:
Among fans, critics, and average moviegoers, I have come across some who loved it and some who hated it. Watchmen has appeared on many "best" and "worst" superhero movies of the decade lists.


I'll be honest - I can't find many 'Best Superhero Films' lists that include Watchmen. If we're sourcing critical and fan opinion, you really can't do much better than this:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=39833

That's not 'Top Ten of the Decade' either - that's 'Of All Time'...

Then we have Metacritic's chart which includes the Top and Worst Ten of all time, based on aggregated critical scores:

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best- ... ook-movies

'Watchmen' doesn't feature in either, which reinforces the general feeling of 'Meh', that - in my experience - surrounds this film.

I think listing the metecritic thing as proof for "meh" is misplaced, if anything it just as easily backs up the "some loved it, some hated it" theory.
If you look here http://www.metacritic.com/movie/watchmen you can see it got 19 positive reviews out of 39, 5 of which were 100%, and 3 right at the bottom with 20%,


My comment was simply based on the Best/Worst list results; that fact that it appears on neither list - it's not one of the best, and not one of the worst - reinforces the general indifference that seems to surround this film, in my experience.


and my comment was simply pointing out that the lists are based only on average metacritic scores, not peronal opinion, and the average of lots of high scores and lots of low scores is a medium score, which doesn't mean it was generally thought of as "Meh"

this is amazon ratings for watchmen and x-men the last stand, both have an average score of 3.5 stars, now you can see the difference in rating pattern
Image
not to mention the fact that Watchmen from 2009 has almost twice as many reviews than a movie from 2006, which goes to show how good it is at provoking a reaction, whereas XM3TLS is a meh movie which noone really cared to give a review to, even though i'd hazard a guess that more people have seen XM3 than Watchmen.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:53 am 
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AvatarIII wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
ROR-SHACK wrote:

Watchmen hit theaters over two years ago. I have been finding it difficult narrow down which groups generally liked the film and which groups generally didn't.


I'd suggest it was pretty much disliked by most people regardless of their involvement with the GN, as you'll see...

ROR-SHACK wrote:
Among fans, critics, and average moviegoers, I have come across some who loved it and some who hated it. Watchmen has appeared on many "best" and "worst" superhero movies of the decade lists.


I'll be honest - I can't find many 'Best Superhero Films' lists that include Watchmen. If we're sourcing critical and fan opinion, you really can't do much better than this:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=39833

That's not 'Top Ten of the Decade' either - that's 'Of All Time'...

Then we have Metacritic's chart which includes the Top and Worst Ten of all time, based on aggregated critical scores:

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best- ... ook-movies

'Watchmen' doesn't feature in either, which reinforces the general feeling of 'Meh', that - in my experience - surrounds this film.

I think listing the metecritic thing as proof for "meh" is misplaced, if anything it just as easily backs up the "some loved it, some hated it" theory.
If you look here http://www.metacritic.com/movie/watchmen you can see it got 19 positive reviews out of 39, 5 of which were 100%, and 3 right at the bottom with 20%,


My comment was simply based on the Best/Worst list results; that fact that it appears on neither list - it's not one of the best, and not one of the worst - reinforces the general indifference that seems to surround this film, in my experience.


and my comment was simply pointing out that the lists are based only on average metacritic scores, not peronal opinion, and the average of lots of high scores and lots of low scores is a medium score, which doesn't mean it was generally thought of as "Meh"

this is amazon ratings for watchmen and x-men the last stand, both have an average score of 3.5 stars, now you can see the difference in rating pattern
Image
not to mention the fact that Watchmen from 2009 has almost twice as many reviews than a movie from 2006, which goes to show how good it is at provoking a reaction, whereas XM3TLS is a meh movie which noone really cared to give a review to, even though i'd hazard a guess that more people have seen XM3 than Watchmen.


So if we ignore the ratings pattern, and look at the overall aggregated score, 'Watchmen' is at least as good as X-Men 3 (another film that generally doesn't feature in best/worst lists). You're trying to show that the general consensus of opinion regarding Watchmen isn't 'Meh', by showing that it scores the same as another film that is considered 'Meh', at best?

The amount of reviews does not necessarily mean Watchmen was good at provoking a reaction in a positive way either; the fact that only 109 people were moved to write a review of the DVD is pretty telling.

Staying with using quantity of Amazon reviews as a yardstick then, let's look at it like this:

Worst Comic Book Film Ever (in general): Batman and Robin - 63 reviews of the DVD.

Best Comic Book Film Ever (in general): The Dark Knight - 314 DVD reviews.

Watchmen - 109 reviews.

Based on number of people on Amazon who could be bothered to write reviews, it's not good, nor is it bad - it appears to be.... (wait for it)....




Meh.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:24 am 
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But if you still want to talk ratings, Watchmen got over 5 times the amount of 1 star reviews that The Last Stand did, over only half as many total reviews more.

So more people thought that it was a worse film than X3.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:27 am 
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Satan's Slut wrote:
But if you still want to talk ratings, Watchmen got over 5 times the amount of 1 star reviews that The Last Stand did, over only half as many total reviews more.

So more people thought that it was a worse film than X3.


I love contradicting myself too.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:31 am 
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Satan's Slut wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
I'd suggest it was pretty much disliked by most people regardless of their involvement with the GN, as you'll see...

I'll be honest - I can't find many 'Best Superhero Films' lists that include Watchmen. If we're sourcing critical and fan opinion, you really can't do much better than this:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/ ... s/?a=39833

That's not 'Top Ten of the Decade' either - that's 'Of All Time'...

Then we have Metacritic's chart which includes the Top and Worst Ten of all time, based on aggregated critical scores:

http://www.metacritic.com/feature/best- ... ook-movies

'Watchmen' doesn't feature in either, which reinforces the general feeling of 'Meh', that - in my experience - surrounds this film.

I think listing the metecritic thing as proof for "meh" is misplaced, if anything it just as easily backs up the "some loved it, some hated it" theory.
If you look here http://www.metacritic.com/movie/watchmen you can see it got 19 positive reviews out of 39, 5 of which were 100%, and 3 right at the bottom with 20%,


My comment was simply based on the Best/Worst list results; that fact that it appears on neither list - it's not one of the best, and not one of the worst - reinforces the general indifference that seems to surround this film, in my experience.


and my comment was simply pointing out that the lists are based only on average metacritic scores, not peronal opinion, and the average of lots of high scores and lots of low scores is a medium score, which doesn't mean it was generally thought of as "Meh"

this is amazon ratings for watchmen and x-men the last stand, both have an average score of 3.5 stars, now you can see the difference in rating pattern
Image
not to mention the fact that Watchmen from 2009 has almost twice as many reviews than a movie from 2006, which goes to show how good it is at provoking a reaction, whereas XM3TLS is a meh movie which noone really cared to give a review to, even though i'd hazard a guess that more people have seen XM3 than Watchmen.


So if we ignore the ratings pattern, and look at the overall aggregated score, 'Watchmen' is at least as good as X-Men 3 (another film that generally doesn't feature in best/worst lists). You're trying to show that the general consensus of opinion regarding Watchmen isn't 'Meh', by showing that it scores the same as another film that is considered 'Meh', at best?

The amount of reviews does not necessarily mean Watchmen was good at provoking a reaction in a positive way either; the fact that only 109 people were moved to write a review of the DVD is pretty telling.

Staying with using quantity of Amazon reviews as a yardstick then, let's look at it like this:

Worst Comic Book Film Ever (in general): Batman and Robin - 63 reviews of the DVD.

Best Comic Book Film Ever (in general): The Dark Knight - 314 DVD reviews.

Watchmen - 109 reviews.

Based on number of people on Amazon who could be bothered to write reviews, it's not good, nor is it bad - it appears to be.... (wait for it)....




Meh.


if we're using the DVD instead of Blu Ray, Watchmen actually has 139 reviews, but that's not a huge difference, (interestingly TDK only has 178 reviews on BD, perhaps because 2009 was the year that bluray really started taking off)
but i might say TDK is an unfair comparison since it was abnormally popular, so it has 3 times as many Amaxon UK reviews, i'd say more than three times as many people have seen TDK than Watchmen, and it made a lot more than 3 times as much at the box office,
i'm thinking, perhaps we just have different definitions of "Meh",

and in response you your last post, this is exactly what i am arguing FOR! that people are passionate (either positive or negative) about watchmen, which mean's it's nopt "Meh", because "meh" implies a lack of passion,
Watchmen also only got 8 3* reviews, wheras XM3 got 18 (with only half as many total reviews)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:33 am 
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Smutty wrote:
Satan's Slut wrote:
But if you still want to talk ratings, Watchmen got over 5 times the amount of 1 star reviews that The Last Stand did, over only half as many total reviews more.

So more people thought that it was a worse film than X3.


I love contradicting myself too.


So where did I contradict myself?

Or maybe you may have missed that I am showing that using the amount of reviews a film has on Amazon as a yardstick for popularity is pointless - especially when you directly compare it to X3, a film which is generally considered 'Meh' at best. AvatarIII even says so himself.

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