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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:19 pm 
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So...

It must be asked.

If Bioware released "True Ending" DLC for Mass Effect 3, would you:

A) Buy it ?

B) Boycott it ?

C) Ignore it ?

As always, keep spoilers to a minimum friends !

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:15 am 
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If they did something like that it'd be dumb, because the game already has the true ending. They'd just be appeasing the fans.

Which isn't always a good idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:26 am 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
If they did something like that it'd be dumb, because the game already has the true ending. They'd just be appeasing the fans.

Which isn't always a good idea.

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A succesful precedent:

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Contradicts thy argument !

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:29 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:55 am 
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What's the ending to Mass Effect 3 that's making everyone whine so much anyway?

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:38 am 
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Godziller66 wrote:
What's the ending to Mass Effect 3 that's making everyone whine so much anyway?


[spoilers}I think it's because Shepherd dies, no matter what you do, although I hear that you can make his death ambiguous but it's really really hard.

Not sure why it bothers people, seems like a fitting ending to me.
[/spoilers]

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:52 am 
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The argument felici and I had was twofold. I argued that

1. It's preposterous for fans to have so much say, such that bioware decides to create a new ending. This is the story they decided to tell and apparently it's a story with a shitty ending. But I don't think they should change it *because* of fan outcry. I likened it to reading Romeo and Juliet but hating that they both die at the end, so Shakespeare decides to change it. It was his story to tell, just as it was bioware's.

2. If they drop any dlc in any form to alter the ending I can't see how they would possibly charge for it after all the negative press they've received. Particularly because whatever they release will significantly alter the ending for every person who plays - suddenly those who don't buy it (if they charge) are now experiencing a different game. I don't think they'd charge.

Felicity disagreed strongly on both points. What say Ye?

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:33 am 
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I agree strongly with both your points Mal,

besides, Shepherd is just one man, one customisable man in the galaxy, what difference does it make if he dies or not? if they do another ME game they can just make up a different protagonist, and anyway would fans really rather he die of old age somewhere, dying not with a bang but with a whimper?....

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:08 pm 
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xMaliciousMal wrote:
It's preposterous for fans to have so much say, such that bioware decides to create a new ending. This is the story they decided to tell and apparently it's a story with a shitty ending. But I don't think they should change it *because* of fan outcry. I likened it to reading Romeo and Juliet but hating that they both die at the end, so Shakespeare decides to change it. It was his story to tell, just as it was bioware's.


I can understand the analogies people have made to TV shows, movies, and hell, a Shakespeare play in Mal's case, they are good analogies, and they serve as important consideration for anything we might argue in this topic, but at the same time, we must also be aware of some differences:

1) The Mass Effect trilogy is a series of story-oriented, role-playing videogames. How is this important ? In the sense that, in essence, no two ME stories should be the same, no two Shepards should be the same, ideally of course, this doesn't happen while playing because Bioware, very wisely, eschewed some control from the player in order to direct the story into something more similar to Star Trek or Battlestar Galactica. But the point remains the same, the Mass Effect trilogy is a series of videogames that in essence, offers a different story for every player, that said, one should pressumably get different endings, as it was stated:

Quote:
"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C"

Casey Hudson, Executive Producer for Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3.


Quote:
"There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?"

Michael Gamble, Associate Producer for Mass Effect 3.


I haven't played the game, but as far as I understand, the choices are limited to "Red, blue and green", with an additional cutscene that "apparently" cannot be obtained without playing multiplayer.

2) I don't believe Bioware is obligated to change the ending.

Is it their story ? Yes.

Is it their game ? Yes.

But like in any enterprise or association, what you put as a stake is what you receive, if I spend more than 200-300 dollars in content, being a loyal midnight-release customer, following the development on forums, then doesn't that give me the right to at least complain ? Is there something morally reprehensible about voicing your opinions ? Would there be something wrong on also acting on my other right to not buy any Bioware products in the near future ?

xMaliciousMal wrote:
If they drop any dlc in any form to alter the ending I can't see how they would possibly charge for it after all the negative press they've received. Particularly because whatever they release will significantly alter the ending for every person who plays - suddenly those who don't buy it (if they charge) are now experiencing a different game. I don't think they'd charge.


Are you sure the negative press is that overwhelming ?

The only real pressure Bioware got was from the Bioware Social Network and from some articles on Forbes, all other "gaming journalism" sites gave.........relentlessly.........perfect scores to the game, some websites, like Gamespot and Metacritic, have erased the negative scores from their user reviews section, granted, many of those reviews were inmature teenager rantings, and yes, those are private entities, they have the right to remove whatever they want from their site, but please, do tell me:

1) That it doesn't look bad at all when a company decides to censor their own users.

2) That it doesn't look bad when none of the professional reviews even mention any of the issues the fans are complaining about.

2) That it doesn't look bad that companies with conflicts of interests (IGN, Gamespot, Metacritic, GameSpy, etc.) do their best to downplay the reaction of the fanbase by "strawmaning" it to death by making it an issue of "entitlement".

xMaliciousMal wrote:
Felicity disagreed strongly on both points. What say Ye?


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Excuuuuse me ?

As I said yesterday, I don't feel fully convinced on the idea of a "Copy and Paste" ending, I'd rather have a "filler", something that explains the supposed plotholes and misunderstandings about the ending. Also, we can't deny that there is a succesful precedent here, Broken Steel for Fallout, which was praised not only as a high quality piece of DLC, but was also requested by the fans in reaction to their dislike of the ending.

In all honesty, I don't think Bioware will change it, too many strings attached.

But would it be really so bad ? So so bad that you could still get the original endings of the game as well as a new, DLC one ? The original ones wouldn't have been erased, there would just be more choices, for once Bioware would be actually delivering on a promise.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:37 pm 
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http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... -effect-3/

I´m gonna leave this where, because this guy manages to get across in a very concise way what is wrong with ME3 ending. Sorry Feli, I know that you won´t read it so that you aren´t spoiled, but I need to show that the end sucks a horse´s dick when it comes to the conclusion of the triology.


As to Avatar´s reason for people don´t like the ending, you are way of course bro. That´s not the problem. Most people would be ok with that. The problem is that the amount of plotholes are ridiculous, the lack of closure is tremendous, and finally but not least, they abandoned the basic tenants of these games: multitude of choices and the effects of them. And the sad part is that it´s not as if this was an herculous task. Just do the same shit you did in ME2 ending...


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:39 pm 
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RuiBK wrote:
http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/

I´m gonna leave this where, because this guy manages to get across in a very concise way what is wrong with ME3 ending. Sorry Feli, I know that you won´t read it so that you aren´t spoiled, but I need to show that the end sucks a horse´s dick when it comes to the conclusion of the triology.


No problem bro, if it contributes to the discussion then it's worth posting.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:09 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
RuiBK wrote:
http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/

I´m gonna leave this where, because this guy manages to get across in a very concise way what is wrong with ME3 ending. Sorry Feli, I know that you won´t read it so that you aren´t spoiled, but I need to show that the end sucks a horse´s dick when it comes to the conclusion of the triology.


No problem bro, if it contributes to the discussion then it's worth posting.


As my Mass Effect bro, a part of me wants to make you avoid the shit that I went through, but then I come to the conclusion that I need to shut the fuck up, and let you make your assesment of the end. After you made it, then we can engage in a discussion about the diferent merits of our opinions.

Although I would bet some serious money that you are gonna hate it...


Edit: a disclaimer, while I hate the endings with all my heart, I think that ME3 is an incredible game, much better then ME1 and ME2. It´s on a league of it´s own. GOTY 2012, even with these shit endings...


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:38 pm 
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RuiBK wrote:
As my Mass Effect bro, a part of me wants to make you avoid the shit that I went through, but then I come to the conclusion that I need to shut the fuck up, and let you make your assesment of the end. After you made it, then we can engage in a discussion about the diferent merits of our opinions.


If it somehow helps the discussion, I also offer these articles:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03 ... 3s-ending/

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03 ... f-an-epic/

I haven't read any of those for obvious, previously mentioned reasons, but I've been told this website is highly regarded by avid gamers, so feel free to discuss both !

RuiBK wrote:
Although I would bet some serious money that you are gonna hate it...


:cry:

RuiBK wrote:
I think that ME3 is an incredible game, much better then ME1 and ME2. It´s on a league of it´s own. GOTY 2012, even with these shit endings...


Some good news at least !

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:23 am 
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Well well well, I must applaud Mr. Malik on being right this time :o !

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/122/1222400p1.html

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:05 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Well well well, I must applaud Mr. Malik on being right this time :o !

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/122/1222400p1.html


Releasing a shitload of cuted cutscenes floating in the internet won´t change things. Unless they add some seriously relevant cutscenes to add some degree of closure this thing won´t die down a bit...

That being said, this confirms my assumption that I´m jumping ship on what pertains to Bioware after ME3...


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:04 pm 
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feliciano182 wrote:
Well well well, I must applaud Mr. Malik on being right this time :o !

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/122/1222400p1.html


Mhm I'm not even gonna say it! :)

Though I have to say the dlc sounds supremely lame at the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:08 pm 
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RuiBK wrote:
Releasing a shitload of cuted cutscenes floating in the internet won´t change things. Unless they add some seriously relevant cutscenes to add some degree of closure this thing won´t die down a bit...

That being said, this confirms my assumption that I´m jumping ship on what pertains to Bioware after ME3...


Dude, have you even played ME 3 again :shock: !?

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:30 am 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
If they did something like that it'd be dumb, because the game already has the true ending. They'd just be appeasing the fans.

Which isn't always a good idea.

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:58 am 
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AYBGerrardo wrote:
AYBGerrardo wrote:
If they did something like that it'd be dumb, because the game already has the true ending. They'd just be appeasing the fans.

Which isn't always a good idea.

Image


I'm with you on this, even though quoting yourself was a bit douchey :P

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Effect
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:10 am 
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I'd do it again!!



....


:?



....


AYBGerrardo wrote:
I'd do it again!!

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it was tying it into the rape-revenge stories and making light of a verys erious sub-genre that kind of offended me.


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