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Good read.

One thing that I'm a bit concerned about is what direction this show is going to take this season. With season 4 we had this new company to look forward to. It was a clear and set direction for the show. Now that we've become used to the new company and its surroundings, what then? At the end of season 3 Don formed a new company, and left Betty. By the end of season 3 the company was trying to keep its head above water, and Don was now engaged. Even though it has only been two episodes (although the first ep should count as 2), I can't really see a specific direction being to yet emerge. All we know is that SCDP are still at it, Don is happily married (more or less), and that's about it. The only real storyline I'm seeing being developed is the duel between Harry and Pete, but that was a holdover from last season. I know it's still way early in the season, but I hope by the fourth episode we'll begin to see the start of the bigger picture. And is it weird that neither episode focused all that much on Don (Hamm, by the way directed the previous episode)?

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"Heard them Walthers like to jump some" "As will you, with one in your elbow."

That guy, Matthew Floratis, is a good writer for that website, I'll pass more articles if I see them.

Also, I knew you would like it, mutual hate for Betty and all

To be honest, were the previous seasons so poignantly direct on a larger plot arc ? Maybe my memory is playing games with me, but I always thought the show focused more on the micro-drama than in the overall direction of the company, if not, then I think that's what we might be getting this season, some tension between Megan and Don, Don and Betty, Henry and Don, Peggy giving orders to the new guy, the new guy complaining about Peggy, Peggy fucking the new guy, Pete telling Roger he sucks, Roger punching Pete, Roger visiting Joan, Roger fucking Joan again, Megan still hating Harry, Harry being an incompetent hilarious frame-glassed douche, blah blah blah.

Maybe it's as you say, it's taking the slow-burn route, but I'm suspecting this season to be only a character piece, specially since little can happen, with the exception of something dramatic happening with Heinz Beans or Mohawk Airlines, or perhaps with Roger Sterling coming to an end to his career, but apart from that ? I can think of little.

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I can't really remember those early seasons. I know season 3 was a slow burn, but then Betty discovered Don's past, then the JFK assassination happened, then Don and co disbanded the company to start a new one. Maybe it's just that season 4 seemed like a new beginning? I don't know, this will sound like sacrilege, but I feel there is only so much we can learn about these characters. Season 4 peaked early, and ran out of steam. We know all there is to know about Don, and so does Megan. So what's left? Don was having a bit of a crisis last season, but unless they go down that route, I'm not sure what he'll be up to this season. But I do hope there will be an actual season arc. The advertising world depicted in the show seems like a confining place. I hate to bring up the Wire again, but at least that show changed the setting every season. Even though we still saw the streets and the police headquarters, we went to the docks, the mayor's office, the schools, and the newspaper. New locations, new characters, new problems, yet all tied together. I actually wouldn't mind seeing something drastic happen. Like the company finally going bankrupt, Don leaving the world of advertising for good. If the show wants to be all about the characters, fine, remove the shackles of the office and let these characters face new problems.

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"Heard them Walthers like to jump some" "As will you, with one in your elbow."

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You...uh...were just waiting to use that picture, weren't you?

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"Heard them Walthers like to jump some" "As will you, with one in your elbow."

Found it like two hours ago actually, I guess coincidences do exist

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"Mystery Date"

I tend to be a bit critical when it comes to television shows. This can make talking about them a bit frustrating since often people will really love an episode, and I'll be left wondering if I missed something. I'm seeing quite a few comments online about what a great episode this was, but I thought it was easily the worst so far. Bad enough that it actually made me appreciate the previous episode. Which makes this run down hard to type. But...here goes....




the t3cii rundown! TM, Copyrighted mutha fucka!




SPOILERS


- I'll start off with my biggest problem with the episode, that being Don. Don is mysteriously sick. We're never given a reason as to why, but it ultimately doesn't matter. As Don meats some sexy ho from his past, Megan rightfully worries and warns him of his past woman chasing. As Don goes home to take a nap, the woman shows up again. He tells her to leave, and she agrees. She then comes back later, and they have sex. After she refuses to end it with him, we get a scene of Don viciously strangling the life out of her. Now, it's hard to tell at exactly what point the dream began. I remember when Betty had a dream sequence, I think in season 2, it was clearly a dream as the sequence as it was filmed in a more surreal way. That's not been the case this season with the dream sequences. Anyway, I'm not sure if I believed Don had really killed her, but the idea that it was possible says something about the character. I totally believe he could do it. But then we see him pushing her under the bed, so it was all a dream after all. Don is just having doubts about keeping Little Don in his pants. I found this to be a dumb storyline, and an example of a lack of subtlety on the writers parts. Maybe I just hate dream sequences. I don't really think they belong on this show. But I just thought it was a bit of a lame story telling device.

- This leads me to Peggy's plot line. After fleecing Roger out of a few hundred dollars, she has Dawn sleep over, since Dawn can't make it to Harlem. I'm glad it seems like they're trying to develop Dawn as a character, but I get the feeling things are going to end badly for her. She's too nice, too polite to exist in the world this show has created. After a few (or more) drinks, Peggy decides to go to bed, then notices the purse on the table. Here we get another scene involving a character not completely trusting a black person, and I'm starting to wonder what's the point? Peggy has never been depicted as being prejudiced, nor has Lane Pryce, yet we get scenes like this. I hope the writers are going somewhere with this.

- The other main story of the episode is Joan, and the return of her dirt bag husband Greg. Remember when Greg raped her? Right at her place of work? I've never been able to forget that, and it's kind of weird how the two have had a mostly incident free marriage. Until now. Joan kicks Greg to the door, but it felt a bit too abrupt. I get the impression that maybe the writers just wanted to get that storyline out of the way. I will say this, at least Joan looks like she is going to have a substantial arc this season, something that can't be said of the others.

- Our favorite new Mad Man, Joey Jewinstein (I forget his actual name) returns, with all his loud jacket wearing, Jewish zaniness. He manages to impress his clients, before coming up with another pitch, which they like even more. Don then chews him out. While I don't remember the dialog exactly, I think it goes something like this:

"Don't ever do that again! Don't ever successfully pitch an idea to a client, only to come up with an even better idea, that they totally wanna go with, making you look even more brilliant! Do it again and you're fired. Or not. Like, whatever, bitch, I'm mysterious! What!"

I'll be honest, he feels way too exaggerated and outrageous to be a real person, and he comes off as being a bit jarring in comparison to everyone else.

- Sally also gets a storyline about being taken care of by Henry Francis's mother. It ties in with the nurse murders, which apparently happened sometime in the 60's. I'm not familiar with those murders. I was sure that Sally was going to grow up to be a bit of a mess as a teenager, and I guess she still could, but she seems to be pretty sharp, usually sharper than the adults around her. She ends up sleeping under the couch, a too on the nose mirroring of the woman who slept under the bed and avoided being murdered.

So far, I haven't been terribly impressed with these episodes. I hope things pick up after the next episode, or that some storyline begins to emerge.

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"Heard them Walthers like to jump some" "As will you, with one in your elbow."

I consider you the TV master of the forum t3cii, it's good to know you'll always have demanding standards for every episode of every show we watch, it's the sole reason why I love these topics.

But tonight, it has to be said:

Y U NO LIKE DIS EPISODE'S SUBTEXT AND AWESOME CHARACTER STUDY ?!!



To be honest, the entire deal with Don being sick more or less resonated to me as a way for the writers to comment on how it could be for him if he truly lost control, what would happen ? How would he react ? It was a strong theme this episode, exemplified with his sickness and constant coffing at work and on the meeting, continuing with Ginsberg flipping him and doing his own campaign, and moving on with the former mistress.

Even in the case of the other characters, Joan not being able to keep her husband at home, the SDCP employees trying to work around the riots and being paranoid about the Nurse Killer, Sterling doing the impossible to keep his position in the agency, even Peggy making a shocking revelation about herself I would've never expected of her, it's all about control man, and this episode focused heavily on it, most strongly on Don.

Though I will admit, that dream sequence was lame as fuck, it really had the subtlety of a Sherman Tank, how come NOBODY can do dream sequences like the goddamn Sopranos ?



Maybe this sounds cruel but I find this to be awesome, more drama for me !



Peggy didn't act prejudiced in reality, the thought passed through her mind because it's the frikkin sixties, equality was likely a swear word in that era. In any case, she acted on her better judgement and chose to leave the purse, I don't see that as saying Peggy is racist, only that she lives in the times she lives in.



Completely forgot about the rape scene ! Always seemed strange in my mind that, as you say, no fallout came out of that one.

Still, I found it interesting for the most part, really, would you have thought it was in Joan's character to wait for that man for ANOTHER year ? Fuck no.



Your job must be awesome

First, Joey fucked up, he didn't do what his boss told him, and then acted smugly in front of him and Cosgrove.

Second, it ties in with the control theme, Don didn't want to go with the Cinderella idea, and his order didn't get through with the new guy he can barely tolerate, it wounded his pride.



Favorite part of this storyline ? Gran'ma Pauline's assumptions story about getting kicked by her father, as well as her assumptions on the Nurse Killer victims, fascinating and truthful study on the machist mindset of the people from that era, I must admit I loved it.

Also, while I hate the typical "Adultified Kids", and Sally is certainly a case, I think it makes up that the girl who plays her is a really good actress, where opinions are concerned at least.

Final Comment ?

MAL ! GET YOUR BLACK CHOCOLATY ASS OVER HERE ! MAD MEN NEEDS DISCUSSING !

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Thanks, but you shouldn't. Considering how little television I watch nowadays.



At first I thought they were going to show Don's constant smoking had caught up to him. That he was developing lung cancer or something. But really I think it was just used to set up the dream/hallucination sequence.



I'm not saying she or Lane are racist. I guess I just don't find those scenes to be subtle.



Well, she sort of alludes to it, saying he's never been a nice guy. But I am surprised at how that storyline seems to be over. He'll probably get killed in the war.

Which reminds me, was there a draft in the Vietnam war? Could one of the younger men on the show be drafted by the army?



I understand the scene, I just thought it was funny that the situation went from pretty good, to even better.

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"Heard them Walthers like to jump some" "As will you, with one in your elbow."

Still far better than people that do nothing but watch reality TV !



Most likely scenario, I doubt they would touch something like cancer in this show, it would be pretty much a death sentence for whoever gets it, even then, was cancer diagnoses the same in the sixties as it is now ?



It would be great if they mentioned it very rapidly, like a cameo of his photo on some wall serving as a memorial event, I'd preffer that instead of Joan getting visited by the military, even though the latter is most likely what will happen anyways.

About the draft ? I'm pretty sure it was applied at the time, though I don't know how it worked, my dad once told me his "uncle-in-law" went to Korea and Vietnam so that his son wouldn't go, so I'm guessing it worked family to family.

In any case, who could even be target for draft on the show ? Ginsberg ? Pete !?



That's assuming the shoes sell, It wouldn't surprise me if they lost that account because the cinderella thing ended up BEING a cliché as Don predicted.



If his inherent hornyness can't bring him here, then nothing can !-

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Shit, you're right, I should have known that. My friend's mother died of lung cancer, and she was only sick for about two months.

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"Heard them Walthers like to jump some" "As will you, with one in your elbow."

What's this? A fun and breezy episode of Mad Men? That still had introspection? That I still enjoyed? (okay, I'll stop). I was worried after last week's episode that this season was taking its time getting off the ground, but tonight's episode was enjoyable, funny, and focused on characters not named Don and Peggy. It was also directed by Mad Men's own John Slattery. So, onto...




the t3cii rundown!





SPOILERS


- If the last episode was all about fear, this episode was all about ambition. And the need to explore greener pastures, in particular, Pete, Lane and Ken's. Let's start with Pete. He had taken the advice given in episode one and is taking driving lessons. Here he meets a pretty young girl, but by the end of the episode, she's fallen for a former classmate and his hunky biceps. At home, he's the husband who can't fix the leaking faucet. At work, he's the guy who gets beat down by Lane (more on that later). When Trudy throws a dinner party, Pete makes forced small talk, and I'm again reminded how insincere he can be. Later, the faucet explodes, and Pete goes to get his tools. Don rips his shirt off and fixes it no problem. The women clap, and Pete's defeated. Lane is also striving for something more at the office. His dinner with his friend and Jaguar client went predictably nowhere. Because unlike Roger or Don, Lane isn't a smooth operator. I cringed as he made a pass at Joan because I just knew he was going to do it. But I find it funny that he was so outraged that the partners took his friend to a whorehouse, despite the fact that Don once got him a prostitute. And Ken is still writing. I remember his brief rivalry with Pete and Kinsey from season 1 or 2. Like Pete, he is also defeated by episode's end, after Roger finds out about his past time.

- "It's Superman!". That's funny, do the writer's of Mad Men follow WCM?

- Since we spend so much time in the office, I sometimes forget that the 60's weren't all finely tailored suits and ties. The guys were sporting some seriously loud sport coats in this episode.

- Pete is a man of specific tastes. Loved his rundown with the prostitute. "No. No. Okay".

- Slatter's direction was a bit too showy for my taste. We got some odd transitions in this episode, such as the abrupt transition from Harry opening the door to Roger walking into Roger's office, and transition from the hood of a car to the top of a desk.

- Don is also back in this episode, and he's thankfully left his hallucinations behind him. He doesn't really do much in this episode. He's still trying to keep his distance from the office outside of work, but the party obviously wasn't too much of a drag since he later has Megan pull over so he could get some.

- Pete cheats! Okay, so this isn't the first time he's done it, but I'm finding him to be almost impossible to sympathize with. Lane's right, he is a slimy little pimp.

- Okay, I've rambled on long enough. Now we come to the part I really wanted to talk about. Lane and Pete's old timey fist fight! I love old timey fist fights! All that was missing were some handlebar mustaches and maybe a kangaroo. When Lane took off his jacket and rolled up his sleeves I thought "No way, is this gonna happen?", then "Oh my God, this is happening!" I was fully prepared for this to be the worst fight in television history, but it more than lived up to the high standards of last season's drunk fight between Don and Duck. Lane knocks out Pete, and takes back some of his dignity. Oh, Pete...being knocked out by Lane? Can't say he didn't have it coming, though. Although none of the other members really contradicted Pete's feelings on Lane.

- I thought Joan showed some good tact in letting Lane slide with that sudden kiss. It was still embarrassing to watch, but she let him down easy without specifically saying anything about it.

- Ken ends the episode with a reading of a a poem (story)? by a writer who's name I've forgotten. At first I was hoping he had taken a new alias, but I don't think that's going to happen. *

edit *Turns out I was wrong, he was writing under an alias. The last name he chose just sounded familiar to me.

Overall, an enjoyable episode.

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"Heard them Walthers like to jump some" "As will you, with one in your elbow."

HA !

Nope, Feli is still in and is still watching the men of Madison Avenue !

If only the fucking university gave me a break !

Anyways, great episode, I think I liked it a little bit more than the last one, if only because it's been a long time we've seen a Pete episode ! But it was also very instrospective as you say, lots of nuance and subtlety of the kind only Mad Men can deliver.



I think my favorite scene from this episode was Pete not being able to sleep, and then trying to fix the faucet, it was his own tiny moment of control, of self-affirmation right before the shitstorm that would come next day.

It also brought me back a lot to that image of him sitting in his office with his rifle, and it also reminded me of just how LONG it has been since Pete has gotten a substantial character arc.



*Sees Don's Jacket*

"...............I don't even................"



I thought the first one was very odd, for a moment I felt a part of the episode was cut !



Right, because we can obviously sympathize with Don, who changes women more often than toilet paper !

I kinda had to take Pete's side on the taxi, Don was being a judgemental asshole, he had a point, sure, but with that much baggage behind him ? No way.



I had to rewind when the..........gory detail..........was revealed, I was kind of flabbergasted at the possibility of chewing gum ending in such places.......................and remaining there.

Still, Pete received it on ALL ENDS in this episode, there was no part of his being that wasn't hurt, his pride damaged by not being able to fix the faucet, his masculinity being diminished by a young athlete in high school, and being beat down by none other than the most pussylanimous, prude, tea-sipping brit there has ever been in a TV show !

No luck for poor Pete Campbell on this episode.



I think I was the only Mad Men viewer who actually liked that those two kissed, I thought:

"Huh, obviously romance is brewing between these two"

*Sees Lane kiss Joan*

*Spits cereal* "WHAT THE HELL !?"



Why in the name of the lord would somebody NOT use a name as awesome as KEN COSGROVE and replace it with Ben Hargrove is completely beyond me, I can only guess that was maybe a comment on Ken's treatment of his writing as part of his intimacy, this is implied when he rejects Peggy at the bar, and when he was forced by his wife to tell the story at Trudy's dinner table.

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Ken very obviously had to use a penname because his job was at stake. Evidenced by sterling's threat near episode's end.

Also, I'm fairly certain the overall issue that will affect them this season is civil rights and these riots. That the show is even addressing them even VIA one off lines every episode shows the common thread of fear and change running through this season. Also, I thought the season premiere was the weakest episode so far. But this last one was definitely a winner.

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I've only had one dream in my life with kids in it that didn't involve me gnawing my feet off, and it had to do with kids doing my laundry.

Way off topic because I'm several episodes behind...

In my business class yesterday we played a "Business Trivia" game and then the topic of advertising came up. 5 out of the 6 were serious (slogan matching, mascot idetification etc.) but one of the questions was "Which Mad Men character was born Dick Whitman?"

I was the only person in the room who knew.

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@RealSlimCAvery

Fair point.



I don't think Don was being that judgmental at all. He hadn't said anything to Pete. If anything, Pete was just feeling guilty. Also, Don told Megan that he liked Trudy, and I guess he feels Pete has a pretty good life and is cautioning him to not fuck things up.



I'm glad he's still writing at the end of the episode, under a less obvious alias. I like Ken. I originally dismissed him as being a walking plot device, that he was only brought into the story when someone had to be pushed into a certain direction or to deliver certain information to the audience, but he's a decent guy, and I like his platonic relationship to Peggy. Although I wouldn't be surprised if he decides to follow his ambition and leave SCDP for good.



So catch up!



Post here more often. I keep hoping for a television thread that will deliver more conversation between members besides just me and feliciano (no offense, feli)

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"Heard them Walthers like to jump some" "As will you, with one in your elbow."

I'm trying, I just have other stuff that is more pressing... and I haven't really had access to the episodes I haven't seen

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@RealSlimCAvery

T3cii, my life has been a shitstorm worthy of both troubles n shit and women the last two weeks. I was actually behind on most tv shows

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I've only had one dream in my life with kids in it that didn't involve me gnawing my feet off, and it had to do with kids doing my laundry.

*edited post

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"Heard them Walthers like to jump some" "As will you, with one in your elbow."

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