feliciano182 wrote:
There's a scene where Bruce stands in front of his parent's grave and "tells them" (more like "wonders to his own self") that he's going to give up his oath to avenge them, his desire for happiness with his new-found love is stronger than any need for revenge.
Thus, like it is expressed in "The Dark Knight Returns" by Frank Miller, it's not out of the question or even out of character to suggest Batman could give up the cowl.
Anyways, you really can't find Batman to be (partly at least) morally responsible for everything The Joker does ?
Like it or not, his appearence in the city, and all the chaos in TDK, probably wouldn't have happened if Batman hadn't show up in Begins, the harsh truth, the dark reality to face here, is that Batman's presence and continued crusade is probably the cause for more crime and more violence in Gotham.
Depends, someone could make the argument that things weren't as bad until he appeared and decided to take the self-appointed mantle of "protector" of Gotham that everything REALLY went to hell, and that all the events in TDK are nothing more than Batman trying to "fix" his own mistakes.
This is exactly why I know Nolan did such a great job with Batman.
Nolan slyly tells us that, because we know and love Batman as much as we do, we give him the benefit of the doubt when doing the most questionable, inmoral acts in the name of our own "safety".
But what if it was someone we didn't know ? What if a guy in your city appeared in a red mask with a beak, called himself "The Phoenix !" and proclaimed himself as "THE SAVIOR OF MANKIND !" and somehow, in some way, you discovered he was making devices similar to those Batman was using, devices that will let him know where you are at any time and place, devices that would allow him to know who you are, what you do, how much money do you spend, how much you don't, who you're sleeping with, where do you study, what classes have you flunked, where you work, yadda yadda yadda.
Would you be okay with someone doing that ?
So you think Rorschach was right in his attempt to reveal the truth about Karnak ?
Shit, forgot that bit. But as to MotF, I´m not as against the idea of Batman having moments of weakness.He just a man, and as such he has needs,emotionally, that his life as Batman hinders.But the burden that he carries, the "I will never let happen to anyone what happened to me" propels him forward. Shit, Batman Inc actually shows that he wants to perpetate that ideia beyond himself.
As to Bruce on TDKR, it´s Frank Miller being Frank Miller. His reputation comes from breaking standards, not from doing stuff like others. Plus, that Wayne had decades of work on his shoulders. In TDK Wayne is Batman for what, 1/2 years?
No bro,I don´t seem him as responsible.As it is, Gotham seems to be a magnet of sorts. The League targeted it even before his parents died, and by the time Bruce came back, dudes like Zsaz and Scarecrow already populated the place. As to Joker himself, he just aimed as high as he could. He sees himself as a figure of chaos, and in a city like Gotham, where corruption is widespread, the greatest symbol of order is Batman. The Joker is atracted to the idea of "fighting the powe" and Batman is the biggest incarnation of it.
The other criminals, well, they owned the fucking place.As it is they were forced to take desperate measures(outsourcing). But by the beggining of TDK they were feeling the squeeze. That kind of crime was actually on the down-low.
Gotham was cesspool.The mob had the fucking place. They were running amook.Guys like Zasz could get away with murder(sort of).The worst of it is that the cops were in with them. Guys like Gordon were the exception. Wayne did good. Thing is, by "replacing" the cops, he made himself a target to those that normally would target the cops on account of the role in society.
Oh, so now we get into the "vigilantes in the real world " bit?Ok, I can play that game.
If I lived in a cesspool like Gotham where even the cops aren´t trustworthy and Phoenix(first name Simon?
) was presenting some results and bringing about change, yeah, hack away. Desperation has an act for changing thresholds...
As to Rorschach, yeah, he was. That plays to the trope that heroes are uncorruptable. Even Bale knows this:
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/07/18/t ... n-trilogy/"And Christian Bale, for one, believes this should trouble us. “Superheroes should tell the truth, right? That’s exactly what they’re meant to do,” says the actor. The Batman/Gordon conspiracy “was a decision… that the truth was too damaging or too much for people to handle,” says Bale. “It’s not a philosophy that [we] want to hear. It’s elitist. It’s a belief in the inability of the public to handle complexity — and it’s probably, really, sadly true, as well. It was very interesting because it’s not what I wanted. I don’t mean playing it — I mean as an audience member. You want this guy will tell the truth regardless of how harsh and regardless of how cruel that is. It’s a great problem for him as well."
But like the Black Freighter hints, and TDKR will show, sooner or later the mask falls, and shit degrades fast.
Ah , fuck it, after all the shit that I read, probably gonna see TDKR on a theather.
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