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yeah, what MovieMan8877445 said.

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@RealSlimCAvery

TDK had it right by leaving out the Joker origin and making him "an absolute". The Joker I remember first seeing is the 70s showman Joker, who appeared on Scooby Doo and Superfriends with a case of lock jaw, or that's how he sounded. No one origin could contain the grim 40s Joker, the 60s goofball tv Joker, the psychotic 80s Joker, the effeminate Joker of 'Arkham Asylum' or DKR, and whatever other versions there are. In other words, I agree that humanizing the Joker probably isn't a good idea.

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Gone fishin'

Thanks! I'll add that to my list of stuff to read.

Definately,I like DV better than TLH

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@RealSlimCAvery

I remember the first time I read The Killing Joke (in 1988 or 1989) I was confused by the first "flashback." I didn't understand the deal with the guy and his pregnant wife. It wasn't until the second flashback and the "Red Hood" that I understood the nameless guy was going to become the Joker. I just didn't understand the first flashback as being a flashback.

Some fans may have misunderstood TKJ. Alan Moore wasn't going for a manifesto on the nature of mental illness. The Joker's "anyone can go as crazy as me after one bad day" point was wrong. Commissioner Gordon, while shaken up, hadn't been driven insane. Batman says (paraphrasing) "Gordon is fine. Maybe ordinary people don't snap when it gets to be too much. Maybe it was just *you* all along."

Alan Moore even mixed in with some of the 1980s fears of nuclear war also seen in V FOR VENDETTA and WATCHMEN. "You know how many times World War III almost started because of a flock of geese on a radar screen? And the last world war started over how much Germany owed over telegraph poles!"

I think the reason that TKJ is so high on everyone's list because until then there was no origin story of the Joker. No one knew who he was why he does what he does and the best part is that even as the origin is shown in the GN you do not get a name for him. Jack Napier was given to him by writers out of thin air by Tim burton for Batman. Thats why i enjoy it so much, the origin

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"That is not dead which can eternal lie / And with strange aeons even death may die."

H.P. Lovecraft

Quoting the Necronomicon, in "The Nameless City"

Really? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but, really, it's only OK, I think, while I love The Long Halloween. Dark Victory was largely a less inspired retread of Long Halloween with Robin in it for no good reason. I liked a good deal of it a lot, though, but it's not one of the great Batman stories, like LH.

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I have just read it this morning. I loved the artwork in it. Erm, in terms of the writing I liked it, but I had to go back over it a bit becuase the ending confused me. It felt very abrupt. I will probably re-read it tonight. I thought that the Joker's back story was good in it. I think the humanizing did work because every villain has to start somewhere, and I would doubt that the Joker was born evil. I thought the parallel between Batman and the Joker was very good.

All that said, it wasn't my favorite. I felt like it was missing something, although I loved how "nasty" it was.
Maybe because it has been hyped up so much I was expecting something amazing. The fact that the Deluxe edition of KJ is around the same price as the "DC universe: The Stories of Alan Moore" surprised me when I read it.

People have to accept that at the time, yes it may have been very good, ground breaking even, but other Batman stories are out there, and I think it is wrong that they should live in KJ's shadow.

I want to go back and read DKR, I don't think I ever read the book with Joker in it as I don't remember it at all.

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http://www.last.fm/user/nomapple